40 replies to this topic

[madmax2069]

<p>

moycon, on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:03 PM, said:

How exactly so? Are you suggesting when the servers go offline, the content will magically be deleted from the 360? Of course it wont ll still be playing my DLC of Pac-Man Championship when the servers go off line.

Yeah, i would love to see you say the same thing once the HDD fails, Then what ?

[moycon]

madmax2069, on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:52 AM, said:

Yeah, i would love to see you say the same thing once the HDD fails, Then what ?

Then I pull one of my other 4 HDDs that is loaded with the exact same games. LOL
Also you have yet to show me proof that our content won't be available to download from the Xbox 720.
Time will tell, I hear they are releasing the next Xbox in 2013. It wouldn't surprise me if these games license can be transferred to the next gen console, although I admit it equally wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't. Still, I tend to live for the now and not worry about trying to predict the future. If you can't transfer the licenses and all 55 million Xbox 360s in the world die, then if I must I'll play them via emulation later.

[TheGameCollector]

You could easily connect the HD or flash card (Wii) to a PC and copy the data to that. Then wait for an emulator that runs said files. There will be people out there who make sure these games become playable again somehow even without the original console. It's been done in the past, they can do it in the future.

[Video]

Uh dude? The guy isn't saying you won't be able to get the game in the future. He's saying you won't be able to legitimately get the game in the future. I can get a legitimate game of most any 2600 cartridge right now. A few I would have to pay good money for, yes, but they physical ones are still there.

Now for the downloadable games, there is NO physical media, and therefor, no "legitimate (legal)" copy once the server and the game are pulled.

Could I just get a hacked/backed up/pirated version of the game? Sure. I can get hacked shit all day long. Does that make it right? Technically, it's only legal to download a "copy" (to get real technical, it's only legal to make a copy of the copy you possess) of the game if you already own a legit copy of the game.

If you can't download a legit copy, due to the lack of a server, and the lack of a copy on your system, then you can't legally do it. You can still do it, sure, and I seriously doubt anybody is going to kick in your door for doing so, but just because you "don't get caught" doesn't make it any more right.

The tragedy comes from the fact that you will have zero legitimate way of acquiring the game in the future....after all, if your ok with pirating, why the hell bother with buying the damn thing to begin with, right? It sounds to me a LOT more like your trying to justify pirating, than trying to justify downloadable content to begin with....and to be honest, since all you're trying to do is justify stealing, then I don't really have anymore to say to you.

[Austin]

Atariboy, on Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:44 PM, said:

Are the versions of Doom I/II included on those two Xbox releases able to do system link?

Just checked it, only split-screen unfortunately.

[moycon]

Video, on Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:50 PM, said:

....and to be honest, since all you're trying to do is justify stealing, then I don't really have anymore to say to you.

Well here is the thing. Where did you find proof these games weren't going to still be available for Live users to download legitimately when the new console is released in 2013?
While we're waiting for you to dig up that proof, why would it be considered stealing if you paid for the product and were just accessing it the only means you had available? For instance I have 5 HDD full of games. The licenses are tied to 1 console, so the rest I have to be signed into Live to access. Now lets suppose 5 years from now they no longer support 360's on the network and the Xbox my licenses are tied to crashes. I have the data on 4 other HDDs but can't access it without using a hack that unlocks it for me since I can't log into Live any more. You're saying since I'm not accessing it legitimately in your mind I'm stealing??
I might agree in the aspect of all the people who refuse to support the game producers now, and would just find and download games for nothing later, you might consider that a form of theft, but how about people like me who have easily purchased over 100 DLC games with good hard earned cash? You think if the servers go down and I have another way to obtain what I paid for I shouldn't take it?

In the end this is just speculation of course. Unless someone here can see into the future we're all full of shit discussing this (or getting mad at some goofy scenario) because we don't know until we know.

[NE146]

Yep.. we don't know.

And anyway as of TODAY, Doom IS still completely available from the servers to download... if you bought it. So there ya go.

[Atariboy]

Even if 360 content is available for another console generation (Which wouldn't shock me in the slightest, the same goes for PS3 content), it doesn't really change the underlying problem here. It just delays the inevitable and we'll be discussing this issue at the end of the upcoming console generation rather than the one we're in the final stretch of at the moment.

Someday, sooner rather than later, support for 360 content (Be it on an actual Xbox 360 or a successor) is going to be concluded by Microsoft. And when that day comes, the days of legitimately retrieving your content on a replacement console is over and unless things have been thoroughly hacked, you very well might not even have an illegitimate way to restore your content like you can do on the original Xbox.

TheGameCollector, on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:52 PM, said:

You could easily connect the HD or flash card (Wii) to a PC and copy the data to that. Then wait for an emulator that runs said files. There will be people out there who make sure these games become playable again somehow even without the original console. It's been done in the past, they can do it in the future.

Besides the obvious (We're years away from an Xbox 360 emulator and we're probably well over a decade away from an Xbox 360 emulator that is anywhere even close to 100% on even the most powerful of PC's), that's a pretty lousy solution for the person that likes to play on real hardware and would like to continue having legitimate access to their DLC they bought for an extended period of time.

So while the preservationist in me hopes for at least that much to happen, the gamer in me isn't very comforted by that hope. As long as I'm a Xbox 360 owner, I want access to my DLC on my Xbox 360 no matter what happens to my current system in the future. While I know MS won't provide indefinite access to it, or even be expected to do such a thing, I'm still never going to like the fact that this stuff has a limited shelf life compared to games on physical media.

[4Ks]

Well, since my parents bought me a 360 as a Christmas present this year, and I really want a good version of Doom, this stinks! Guess I'll just have to find a PC version that will run on my machine...

[Austin]

4Ks, on Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:31 AM, said:

Well, since my parents bought me a 360 as a Christmas present this year, and I really want a good version of Doom, this stinks! Guess I'll just have to find a PC version that will run on my machine...

Buy the DOOM III Collectors Edition disc for the original XBOX. It's backwards compatible with the 360 and it includes Ultimate DOOM and DOOM II. Along with DOOM 3, of course.

[MCHufnagel]

Has everyone forgotten about what happened with the original Xbox? This is proof that your access to dlc on the 360 will be gone sooner rather than later. Sure there are means to get that missing content back. But nobody should have to go through those measures to get paid for content back.

As for Doom, get the Steam version. Yes, it's dlc also, but there are multiple ways it can be backed up rather easily. Also Steam does allow you to play on multiple machines without too much hassle, unlike consoles.

[Mendon]

I've said in other threads that I firmly believe the days of physical media are fading fast and that in the very near future, the only way to get new games will be via digital downloads. Maybe even as early as next consoles from MS and Sony.

Even the new holiday bundles from MS are moving in this direction with the inclusion of two games.... one on physical media (Fable 3) and one a download code (Halo Reach). The Kinect add-on by itself now comes packed with a physical media Kinect Adventures and a code for Child of Eden.

For myself, I'll take physical media and the original hardware over digital downloads and an emulator every time. Others aren't bothered with the idea of digital downloads and just enjoy the moment. Neither of us are right or wrong because whether digital downloads are a good or bad thing is up to each individual gamer.


Mendon

[onlysublime]

I have the digital download of Halo Reach (got it free with the beta testing of the new disc format). It's just so nice not to have to put the disc in the drive and also to have silent, fast loading of the game.

[Atariboy]

Mendon, on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:00 PM, said:

I've said in other threads that I firmly believe the days of physical media are fading fast and that in the very near future, the only way to get new games will be via digital downloads. Maybe even as early as next consoles from MS and Sony.

We're years away from that point. Far too many households lack broadband internet (And in the areas that do have the infrastructure probably aren't anywhere close to being able to support millions of gamers switching almost overnight to downloading all their games) and many console owners have yet to even take their current consoles online. No one is ready for that right now, not the internet infrastructure, not Sony or Microsoft, not the retailers, and not the buying public. They're not going to go from retail distribution being their primary distribution method one generation to it being nonexistent the next while leaving scores of customers behind that don't even have the option to continue (Much, if not the majority of rural America and Canada lacks broadband access of any sort).

They're taking small steps to ween us off physical media to prepare for that future while things like internet infrastructure slowly catches up. The logical next step is for download and retail game distribution to be on equal footings with all retail releases getting a same day digital release. Then the next generation, perhaps downloads start to become their primary distribution method.

After that, then maybe we'll see physical releases conclude.

Edited by Atariboy, Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:01 PM.

[cimerians]

I like downloads saves tons of space at my house but I'm also an old schooler that does like to collect and keep stuff so I'm kind of torn 50/50. The thing I don't like is bad practices. Codes that dont work. Other requirements (constant internet connections), DRM, Terms that are not disclosed. etc. That stuff I cannot tolerate at all.

I'm not too afraid of something disappearing because I only have myself to blame for not buying the game to begin with. In the future if a game is no longer available I trust and HOPE that services like Steam, PSN and XBox Live will allow users who bought the game to re-download it. I definitely hope Microsoft continues to allow that although I myself also have multiple Xbox's so I'm not too worried. Steam is another story. Not sure about them.
GOG is cool. Download the game and manuals. They are yours forever DRM free. Simply make backups of it.

It can get pretty nasty as I've seen the last few years but I guess this is how its gonna be. Hopefully things get better in the bad practices category.

[Mendon]

Atariboy, on Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:48 PM, said:

We're years away from that point..... SNIP

You might be 100% correct.

I base my belief on a couple of things:

1) The money is in the internet. Sure, people without access to the internet buy games..... but its the people who are ON the internet who provide the major $$$$. They not only buy the games but buy the map packs, add-on quests, horse armor, pretend clothing and accessories for their avatars, theme packs, and all the other little goodies available.

People without internet access do spend money but no where near what those with internet access spend. And since corporations are beholden to the shareholders and must make the most profit possible, they will cater and develop for those that spend the most, while the others are often mere afterthoughts.

2) Used games. These seem to be Public Enemy #1 for the game companies and they are trying to do away with the selling and trading of used game disks as fast as they can. Online and Offline Passes may make a dent in used game sales/trades, but the companies realize there is a better way: Digital Downloads. With these, there is no used product for consumers to sell or trade, the companies get 100% of the money, and the companies cut a lot of the costs.... i.e. shipping, packaging, printing, etc.... right out of the profit equation.


As I said, you might be 100% correct and the passing of physical media is years away. But I still believe that based on my reasoning above, DD only distribution is much closer than any of us realize because in the end, its more profit and control for the companies.


Mendon