25 replies to this topic

[Mitch]

So what do you think, are these protos or not?

Mitch

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[Wickeycolumbus]

What games are on them?

[Albert]

These absolutely are not prototypes. They are standard production games.

..Al

[CPUWIZ]

Albert, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:55 PM, said:

These absolutely are not prototypes. They are standard production games.

..Al

They are the furthest away from prototypes you can possibly get.

If someone thinks otherwise, I got a lot of protos to sell you, for really cheap!

[Albert]

You should have made the poll answers public so we can see who voted "Yes"!

..Al

[Cebus Capucinis]

Whoever did, they're a dumbass.

[CPUWIZ]

Albert, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:54 PM, said:

You should have made the poll answers public so we can see who voted "Yes"!

..Al

Whoever it was, please contact me for a wide variety of proto's I have for sale, only $5 each! I can provide pictures too.

[Wickeycolumbus]

I wouldn't talk so much shit yet... There were those Best protos sold recently, who knows, that could be Dukes of Hazard and Donald Duck.

And no, I have not voted in the poll.

[CPUWIZ]

Wickeycolumbus, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't talk so much shit yet... There were those Best protos sold recently, who knows, that could be Dukes of Hazard and Donald Duck.

And no, I have not voted in the poll.

Those are not protos either, they are unreleased games, big difference.

[Albert]

CPUWIZ, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:11 PM, said:

Those are not protos either, they are unreleased games, big difference.

What he said.

..Al

[Wickeycolumbus]

CPUWIZ, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:11 PM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't talk so much shit yet... There were those Best protos sold recently, who knows, that could be Dukes of Hazard and Donald Duck.

And no, I have not voted in the poll.

Those are not protos either, they are unreleased games, big difference.

Depending on your definition of prototype. They'd certainly be worth more than $5, at least to me.

[bennybingo]

Wickeycolumbus, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:34 PM, said:

CPUWIZ, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:11 PM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't talk so much shit yet... There were those Best protos sold recently, who knows, that could be Dukes of Hazard and Donald Duck.

And no, I have not voted in the poll.

Those are not protos either, they are unreleased games, big difference.

Depending on your definition of prototype. They'd certainly be worth more than $5, at least to me.

I would have to agree that these Best Electronics "protos" are not prototypes....not by any definition.

Definition: prototype - (N) A first or preliminary model of something, esp. a machine, from which other forms are developed or copied.

AFAIK, the Best Electronics "protos" are mostly just copies of games which were never released. In some cases (not many), a handful of their protos were actual prototype boards, inserted in a random shell, but nowhere near the majority of them.

You are correct though, they are worth more than $5. Some are fetching nice prices these days, but not because they are protos. The reason they have begun to rise in value is due to the scarcity of the titles they contain, and the fact that Best Electronics no longer offers most of them. I have one of the Holey Moly "best protos" along with Dukes of Hazzard. They are not protos, but they fit in my collection of playable carts just fine regardless. Best part of it is that they didn't cost me more than $20 to $30 to obtain.

[HammR25]

Definitely protos since they're not in shells.

[Albert]

HammR25, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:46 PM, said:

Definitely protos since they're not in shells.

I like the cut of your jib.

..Al

[CPUWIZ]

Ok ok, I'll lower the price for these proto's to $2 each. Anyone need a bridge?

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[Mitch]

I probably shouldn't have made this a poll.

As was suspected these are indeed Donald Duck's Speedboat and Dukes of Hazzard.

When I started this thread I was contemplating about what's in a name, and what makes a proto a proto?
Does it have to contain a non-final version of the ROM, perhaps be on an EPROM board or maybe have some type of lab loaner label?
All of the above?

Should software even be called protos or should it be reserved for hardware like, for example, the mindlink controller.

Mitch

[Wickeycolumbus]

Call me crazy all you want, but I still consider them prototypes, as well as anything pre-production or that didn't make it to market. It's definitely in a different class than say, a WIP of either of the two, and should be treated accordingly.

Completely unrelated question... is Dukes the one on the right (labeled 2)?

[Cebus Capucinis]

Wickeycolumbus, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:41 AM, said:

Call me crazy all you want, but I still consider them prototypes, as well as anything pre-production or that didn't make it to market. It's definitely in a different class than say, a WIP of either of the two, and should be treated accordingly.

Completely unrelated question... is Dukes the one on the right (labeled 2)?

You're clearly insane.

[bennybingo]

Wickeycolumbus, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:41 AM, said:

Call me crazy all you want, but I still consider them prototypes, as well as anything pre-production or that didn't make it to market. It's definitely in a different class than say, a WIP of either of the two, and should be treated accordingly.

Completely unrelated question... is Dukes the one on the right (labeled 2)?

Just to clarify, these are "reproductionsof unreleased games". Some of the good folks here at AA can, and do the same exact thing all the time. Power Lords, for example, was an unreleased game until CPUWIZ got the "ACTUAL PROTO" and the rights to release it. The prototype was the original cart, which CPUWIZ acquired, and then copied all the reproduction carts from.

....and keep in mind... the "actual proto" of Power Lords, cost just a few pennies more (*insert sarcastic chuckle here) than some repro from Best Electronics.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and can see what you mean. It's just that these "Best Electronics Protos", aren't protos....they are just reproductions.

[Wickeycolumbus]

bennybingo, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:12 AM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:41 AM, said:

Call me crazy all you want, but I still consider them prototypes, as well as anything pre-production or that didn't make it to market. It's definitely in a different class than say, a WIP of either of the two, and should be treated accordingly.

Completely unrelated question... is Dukes the one on the right (labeled 2)?

Just to clarify, these are "reproductionsof unreleased games". Some of the good folks here at AA can, and do the same exact thing all the time. Power Lords, for example, was an unreleased game until CPUWIZ got the "ACTUAL PROTO" and the rights to release it. The prototype was the original cart, which CPUWIZ acquired, and then copied all the reproduction carts from.

....and keep in mind... the "actual proto" of Power Lords, cost just a few pennies more (*insert sarcastic chuckle here) than some repro from Best Electronics.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and can see what you mean. It's just that these "Best Electronics Protos", aren't protos....they are just reproductions.

Actually, you're 100% wrong on this. Those are production mask ROMs, no one here can make them. They're from Atari, not reproductions at all. Best Electronics simply found and put them into cases to sell.

[bennybingo]

I get it...this was more of a comparison, in order to better explain that your "Best Protos" aren't all that rare, as they aren't actually proto's. More likely a pre-production version of a game that never got released. Lots of games got cancelled due to various reasons, and at various stages of production.

The prototype would not have been done on a production Mask ROM due to price. Prototypes are largely done on PROM's...it has all been discussed here before...my search function seems to find it just fine:

http://www.atariage....-roms-v-eproms/

If you want to call them protos, it's all good. Just don't be surprised when you overpay for a best "proto" that's worth about $20.

[Wickeycolumbus]

bennybingo, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:51 AM, said:

I get it...this was more of a comparison, in order to better explain that your "Best Protos" aren't all that rare, as they aren't actually proto's. More likely a pre-production version of a game that never got released. Lots of games got cancelled due to various reasons, and at various stages of production.

The prototype would not have been done on a production Mask ROM due to price. Prototypes are largely done on PROM's...it has all been discussed here before...my search function seems to find it just fine:

http://www.atariage....-roms-v-eproms/

If you want to call them protos, it's all good. Just don't be surprised when you overpay for a best "proto" that's worth about $20.

I really don't understand your argument here. The carts in the thread are not mine, and I have never bought/sold any such carts at an unreasonable price or intended to do so. I simply stated that I consider the carts in question a form of prototype and couldn't care less if anyone disagrees with me. I'm in total agreement that this is a gray area. I even said that they should be treated accordingly in the post you quoted me on. Calling them reproductions is just flat out wrong.

Edited by Wickeycolumbus, Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:10 PM.

[bennybingo]

Wickeycolumbus, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:09 PM, said:

I really don't understand your argument here. The carts in the thread are not mine, and I have never bought/sold any such carts at an unreasonable price or intended to do so. I simply stated that I consider the carts in question a form of prototype and couldn't care less if anyone disagrees with me. I'm in total agreement that this is a gray area. I even said that they should be treated accordingly in the post you quoted me on. Calling them reproductions is just flat out wrong.

cool. wanna buy my dukes of hazzard prototype then??? I'll sell it to ya cheap!

[Mitch]

Yes, picture number 2 is Dukes.

No, these COB cart boards are not reproductions in any way, they are original Atari products.

To muddy the water further, Donald Duck's Speedboat was released by Polyvox in Brazil in limited quantities using these boards so technically I guess it is a released game.

Stranger still, the version of Quadrun sold by Best Electronics on the COB cart boards contains a pre-release version of the game not the final code. So does that make it a proto?

Mitch

[CPUWIZ]

Mitch, on Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:15 PM, said:

Yes, picture number 2 is Dukes.

No, these COB cart boards are not reproductions in any way, they are original Atari products.

To muddy the water further, Donald Duck's Speedboat was released by Polyvox in Brazil in limited quantities using these boards so technically I guess it is a released game.

Stranger still, the version of Quadrun sold by Best Electronics on the COB cart boards contains a pre-release version of the game not the final code. So does that make it a proto?

Mitch

I think what Ben was getting at, is the fact that Best Electronics stuffed these PCB's into PP2 shells, after the fact. Technically that makes it a repro. Now, if you buy the board by itself (like that guy on ebay was selling craploads of, 5 years ago or so, out of San Jose), then it's not a repro.