39 replies to this topic

[AtariLeaf]

All these are reminders as to why I stopped using ebay as a seller. I already lost a package of CIB Semi rare Intellivision games and money to a thief and liar from Italy, I won't do it again.

[SoulBlazer]

AtariLeaf, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:47 AM, said:

All these are reminders as to why I stopped using ebay as a seller. I already lost a package of CIB Semi rare Intellivision games and money to a thief and liar from Italy, I won't do it again.

Not to add salt to a wound, but I wouldn't send anything to Italy PERIOD. That's one of the four or five countries I refuse to send anything to due to the high risk of that.

[akator]

My experience is that I need to document everything before anything is shipped:

• photo showing the item tested and working, usually ends up as the main photo used for the eBay listing
  
• detailed photos of the item showing condition
  
• photos of the packing showing it shouldn't arrive damaged
  
• photos of the sealed box showing it is properly sealed and in good condition for shipment

This provides me with protection against buyers, eBay, Paypal, and the USPS. It's amazing how quickly buyers will give up on claiming something doesn't work when you send them photos proving it worked before shipping.

It's annoying that every sale item requires 5 minutes of extra photography to cover my ass, but that's the way the world is.

[boxpressed]

akator, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:02 AM, said:

My experience is that I need to document everything before anything is shipped:

• photo showing the item tested and working, usually ends up as the main photo used for the eBay listing
  
• detailed photos of the item showing condition
  
• photos of the packing showing it shouldn't arrive damaged
  
• photos of the sealed box showing it is properly sealed and in good condition for shipment

This provides me with protection against buyers, eBay, Paypal, and the USPS. It's amazing how quickly buyers will give up on claiming something doesn't work when you send them photos proving it worked before shipping.

It's annoying that every sale item requires 5 minutes of extra photography to cover my ass, but that's the way the world is.

Have you needed to use this extra documentation against a claim? If so, how did it work out?

[qix_maniac]

I suggest adding ebay users to your exception list so they can't bid on your items.
Don't ship items over $50 to other countries unless it's a repeat buyer or if you insure the item with priority mail which is more expensive of course. Also don't sell to buyers with less then 10 feedback as example, set your firm policy up front "no returns or exchanges" and demand immediate payment...do everything possible to cover yourself and protest your treasures

[Rex Dart]

kevincal, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:51 PM, said:

Feedback extortion eh? I've dealt with this before... It's not cool but whatever. First of all, you got this for 40% off my original asking price. Second of all, I take great pictures of all items I sell, its plain to see there is a sticker on the cart and the manual isnt perfect in the pictures. Third of all I think it's ridiculous to require the styro block to call an NES game complete. I mean really? If thats the case then if a game doesnt have original plastic or register cards then its not complete... To 99% of the general population of game collectors, complete means game, box, manual. period.

If I refund you $5 that means you got the game shipped to you for $9.50 Now how the hell is that fair to me? It isnt, at all. Shipping costs were like $2.50, ebay and paypal fees something like $3.50 So that leaves me with a measly $3.50 profit from a complete semi rare NES GAME!?!?! that I made sure to send to you in a sturdy box, sent it quickly, drove to the PO to send it etc etc. Are you kidding me man? Jeez, thanks a lot.

Maybe a $2 refund is the most I would be willing to give you, ya, cus any more than that and its just a slap in my face. Let me know what you think... and let me know your paypal and I will send the $2. I do not deserve any kind of neutral or negative feedback for this ive done nothing wrong. You should not threaten me with bad feedback unless I give you money it is very much against ebay policy (its called "feedback extortion" and is talked about on ebay by ebay) and if you leave any bad feedback or low dsr ratings for this I will report you for it. Good sellers like me dont deserve this type of treatment.span>

Damn! He was chiseling you, yeah, but when you start whining about how it's not fair that you only make three bucks off an auction, you lose sympathies quickly.

[jetset]

The buyer was totally in the wrong here, but your handling of it was way poor imo. His request, though an obvious crock to get the item for less was properly worded and there was little hint of extortion. You insulted him, accused him of extortion, and tried to make him seem like the whole world is terrible because of people like him. Right or wrong nothing in his request was deserving of such a berating. I'm glad you got the feedback removed, the buyer was out of line but honestly...you made this more stress on yourself by knee-jerking with your reply.
I know you're likely to cite me as one of those who are taking the other guys' side...I'm not. I just think your handling of the situation was a bit over the top.

[akator]

boxpressed, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:06 AM, said:

akator, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:02 AM, said:

My experience is that I need to document everything before anything is shipped:

• photo showing the item tested and working, usually ends up as the main photo used for the eBay listing
  
• detailed photos of the item showing condition
  
• photos of the packing showing it shouldn't arrive damaged
  
• photos of the sealed box showing it is properly sealed and in good condition for shipment

This provides me with protection against buyers, eBay, Paypal, and the USPS. It's amazing how quickly buyers will give up on claiming something doesn't work when you send them photos proving it worked before shipping.

It's annoying that every sale item requires 5 minutes of extra photography to cover my ass, but that's the way the world is.

Have you needed to use this extra documentation against a claim? If so, how did it work out?

Yes. I've had 3 buyers try to extort me, but it never went any further with 2 of them once I showed them all of the detailed photos proving the condition was not as they described. The one buyer who disregarded the photos proving he was full of shit then elevated it to a claim, demanded a partial refund, and refused to return the item. I reported him immediately to eBay with all of the photos and communication, proving that I tried to work with him and he refused. eBay told him he could return it or keep it, as I was not obligated to give him a partial refund. He dropped the claim and I never heard from him again.

Knock on wood... so far the photos have worked

[kheffington]

http://toolhaus.org/...irn=Received by

Based on his user feedback that guy definitely seems to be a piece of work. If you haven't already done so add him to blocked bidder list on eBay.

[guy767]

SoulBlazer, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:12 AM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:47 AM, said:

All these are reminders as to why I stopped using ebay as a seller. I already lost a package of CIB Semi rare Intellivision games and money to a thief and liar from Italy, I won't do it again.

Not to add salt to a wound, but I wouldn't send anything to Italy PERIOD. That's one of the four or five countries I refuse to send anything to due to the high risk of that.

Italy is infamous for shipping shenanigans. It may sound like racial stereotyping but the Italian Mafia controls the postal unions there and packages being stolen are common place.

One of the first things you need to do if you decide to ship internationally is block buyers from Italy. It's simply too high risk shipping there and not worth the hassle. Japan, Britain, Australia and Canada are excellent though and I never had a problem with them. (I sell games as a hobby. It helps pay for my video game collecting addiction )

About taking photos, IMO they are superfluous as the buyer can easily still claim that the item got damaged during shipment or items were missing ergo they don't prove anything. The best policy IMO is accepting returns and refunding return shipment cost.

Don't let the buyer bring you down to an uncivil and unprofessional disposition. Just reply "Sorry that you are not satisfied. Please return the item for a full refund. Return shipping costs will be refunded as well once I receive the item. Thank you." This is pretty easy to do if sending small items that ship First Class like games and it gives the buyer no excuse not to return the item.

Edited by guy767, Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:24 PM.

[A_Locomotive]

kevincal, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:29 PM, said:

and after all this the guy still had the nerve to leave me a negative feedback, which i promptly got removed by ebay customer service. the ebay lady right away told me its a cut and dry case of feedback extortion when she saw his first message. unfortunately shes says they cant do anything about DSR ratings and he probably gave me the lowest Oh well, I wish I could confront this guy in person and chew his ass out and put him in his place. Idiots like this guy really fire me up. just relieved I got his negative feedback removed and hopefully done with this pathetic guy.

You know what I'd do? Buy something from him on ebay and neg the shit out of him. On a serious know though the guy is a total tool for doing that to you. Its not even an expensive item, where it $200 item I could see complaining IF there was a legitimet problem which from looking at your listing is most definitely not the case, you were in the right here 100%.

[akator]

guy767, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:46 AM, said:

About taking photos, IMO they are superfluous as the buyer can easily still claim that the item got damaged during shipment or items were missing ergo they don't prove anything. The best policy IMO is accepting returns and refunding return shipment cost.

They can't falsely claim the item was damaged during shipping if you have photos showing it was packed correctly. Taking those photos puts the burden of proof on the buyer. Taking photos has saved me at least $400 in buyer scams.

I insure all of my packages. That also brings a 3rd party into the mix, the buyer's local post office who will examine the items and determine whether or not the buyer is full of it. This is a further step that puts both eBay and PayPal on my side.

If the buyer's claim is legit, I'm happy to take back the item and refund the money. Then I can make an insurance claim at the USPS. It takes months for them to pay, but it's still better than nothing.

Funny how since I started insuring things not one has been lost or damaged by the USPS. Insurance also includes internal tracking that USPS employees can check if there's a problem. I had one guy claim he didn't receive a $150 package, but the post office records showed it was delivered the correct day. They sent the postal delivery person to his house asking about the package, and he changed his story to say he received it but had "forgotten about it." Again, someone trying to pull a fast one who backed down. Again, someone I never heard from again (thankfully)...

[guy767]

Hmmmm, can't the buyer just damage the box themselves and claim it got damaged during transit? You have proof of the item before shipment but not after. I can see how the photos would be pertinent in insurance claims though.

However the buyer does not need to cooperate with your USPS insurance claim. They can simply file an "Item not as described" case against you and be refunded by eBay upon return of the item. You’re then left with a useless insurance claim because most likely the buyer is not going to cooperate out of spite.

Insurance sounds like a good idea but most cases it's just a waste of money. I was told by a very annoying, most caustic and curt individual on the Ebay selling forums that "Smart sellers self insure." Sam or something like that was their name. I failed to see the wisdom of those words until recently. If you just add a $1 handling fee for each item you can build your own insurance fund. Actual insurance for expensive items is warranted though.

IMO it’s best to simply accept returns and pay for return shipping costs rather than make the buyer jump through hoops. This is especially true for items that ship via USPS First Class Mail. You are going to be forced to accept them regardless due to Ebay’s Buyer Protection policy ergo you might as well offer a decent return policy.

Edited by guy767, Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:39 PM.

[drsreym]

I whole hartedly agree the feedback extortion is completely wrong and parts of the feedback system is wrong and still needs to be tweaked. From a buyer perspective this is what happened to me years ago and why i agree with some of ebays policy changes.

A few years ago my BIOS crashed and i needed a replacement asap. I found somone on eBay and contacted him and we actually spoke on the phone before ordering. What called to verify was that he could flash a bios chip for me and ship it out that day "next day air" so i can have it by Friday. The seller says he can do it and the price for shipping is about $25 and i say ok. I do a buy it now and add the $25 shipping to a $3 part. (Hey my PC was down and i did not care.. you might understand)

So what happens next is friday comes and goes and no delivery. I contact him over the weekend and he said he shiped it on thursday but tells me he sent it through the USPS express mail and states that after contacting te post office that express mail to my area express mail is 2 days to my area and not guaranteed. Needless to say it comes in on tuesday. You can imagin im not happy and down right pissed. We argue and i state that i wanted it by friday and asked for "Next day Air" not express mail service so i ask for a refund on shipping and basically he refuses (no i did not hold feedback hostage or even mention it on the call).

So I decide to leave neutral feedback so what does that SOB do he leaves me neutral feedback in retaliation because he knew i wanted it Next day and i asked him for the price for that. if Fedex or UPS was more i would have paid it cause i did not care an I needed it by friday! We wined about it being out of his control when he should have used and quoted a shipping method that was actually "Next Day Air" like I asked and thought I was paying for.

So thats my example on why the old system was flawed but agree still the new system needs to be tweaked. Im sure he felt justified in leaving me neutral feedback as retalitation and i cant think or a more valid reason for a buyer to leave a seller neutral feedback either. That was just pure eBay Seller abuse...

Thats my $.02 and hope you guys dont think what I did was feedback extortion and the only bump on my ebay feedback.

Edited by drsreym, Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:48 PM.

[AtariLeaf]

SoulBlazer, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:12 AM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:47 AM, said:

All these are reminders as to why I stopped using ebay as a seller. I already lost a package of CIB Semi rare Intellivision games and money to a thief and liar from Italy, I won't do it again.

Not to add salt to a wound, but I wouldn't send anything to Italy PERIOD. That's one of the four or five countries I refuse to send anything to due to the high risk of that.

Sadly, this was something I learned after the fact.