9 replies to this topic

[carmel_andrews]

When you think about it the SMS is basically a sega version/equivalent of Atari's 5200 (since the SMS is largely based on a range of sega computer h/w which sega marketed mainly to Asian markets....minus the keyboard, and that the 5200 was largely based on the 400/800 minus the keyboard)

Whilst the SMS wasn't as successful as the NES in the US (though it did sell in reasonable numbers) in europe it basically clobbered the NES out of sight (though in all honesty the NES suffered in europe, not because of poor marketing but largely based on nintendo's policies on 3rd party software publishing/support which totally went against the way european and UK publishers/developers worked...)

Anyway's considering that the SMS was doing so well in europe, and considering that Atari had 'warehouse loads' (apparently) of unsold 5200 systems (once tramiel had assumed control of Atari) rather then try relaunching the 5200 in the US ...which didn't result in that much more s/w support then it previously had, why didn't Atari just modify the existing systems and sell/market them in europe and the UK and given the SMS some sort of competition

Remembering ofcourse that the 2600 wasn't that well supported by european/uk publishers (upto 1984/beg. of '85), so something a step up from the 2600's capabilities might have been more interesting to support (like the 5200) and probably would have had a knock on effect in improving 3rd party s/w support for/of the A8 range as well,seeming as though software houses in europe and uk were more then willing to support something like the SMS and supporting something like the 5200 as well i think might have encouraged Atari to update/upgrade the 5200 to something along the lines of the xl/xe (since it's a 400/800 without a k/b anyway), such as a 5200 equivalent of xl/xe bankswitching and say a 64/128k version of said gaming system, would have encouraged 3rd party publishers to come up with better quality software and more advanced software for the 5200

It would have fitted in nicely with tramiels policy of 'internationalising Atari' seeming as though tramiel did a lot better at internationalising the company then any of the previous managements were...And that achievement alone is the only thing i would ever give tramiel credit for

Look at it this way, Atari already had lots of unsold 5200 hardware in its warehouses, instead of initially trying to develop/produce and launch a whole new system (which wasn't that well supported in europe/uk upto 1984/5) like the XE series of A8...just keep the xe on the back burner and give software houses in those markets more time to develop more software to support the xl's 64k memory, since by the time the xe came along less then 5 p/c of the A8 software available used the xl's 64k memory, launch the modified 5200 in europe/uk and get 3rd party support from s/w companies in those markets (which, like i said, sega more then managed it with the sms, and unlike atari were largely unknown in that/the market) and update/upgrade the 5200 along the lines as suggested, i think the 5200 would have atleast have had a longer shelf life and not only that would have probably become more successful

[atari5200dude82]

You are probably right. I don't know much about the Sega Sms. But Atari didn't really support or marketed the 5200 well. It could had better success and a longer life, if so. They should have marketed in Europe and had more third party developers. Atari should have relaunched the 5200 and games after the crash. It would had a longer life and more games in it's library. Atari also should of released the 7800 in 84 in the U.S AND Canada, and the 5200 in Europe and more in Canada in 84. It would had a wider appeal and probably and more support

Edited by atari5200dude82, Tue Nov 1, 2011 6:58 PM.

[Retro Rogue]

atari5200dude82, on Tue Nov 1, 2011 6:44 PM, said:

You are probably right. I don't know much about the Sega Sms. But Atari didn't really support or marketed the 5200 well. It could had better success and a longer life, if so. They should have marketed in Europe and had more third party developers. Atari should have relaunched the 5200 and games after the crash. It would had a longer life and more games in it's library. Atari also should of released the 7800 in 84 in the U.S AND Canada, and the 5200 in Europe and more in Canada in 84. It would had a wider appeal and probably and more support

a) Two different Ataris.

b) The 5200 was cancelled in 1984 in favor of the oncoming 7800. And during it's 2 year lifespan it was supported and marketed quite well. The issues that effected sales were the delays in the 2600 adapter (which confused the public in to thinking they'd have to start all over with a more expensive unit with more expensive games), and an initially unplanned for third competitor in the Colecovision. The 5200 was designed as a higher end alternative to the 2600 and specifically to boxout the Intellivision (with Atari looking to capture the low end and high end markets).

c) The second Atari (Atari Coproration) did, as Carmel mentioned. They needed to get rid of the backstock and re-released it in the US.

d) They did start arelease of the 7800 in '84. The plan was to start in New York, then LA and spread out accordingly. Perhaps you're not familiar with the fact that Atari Inc. imploded, and was chopped up and sold off by Warner in '84? The company was gone in '84. The Consumer Division and its assets were purchased by Tramiel who folded them under his own company (Tramel Technology Limited) when he then renamed to Atari Corporation. Hence you have a completely different Atari re-releasing the 5200 and releasing the 7800.

[jetset]

Retro Rogue, on Thu Nov 3, 2011 10:39 AM, said:

The issues that effected sales were the delays in the 2600 adapter (which confused the public in to thinking they'd have to start all over with a more expensive unit with more expensive games)

As many times as I hear this, it never ceases to make me laugh. I got a 5200 at launch (well Christmas of '82..it was out a month before), and from the time I saw one and wanted one, the thought of needing a 2600 adapter to play me 2600 games was an insignificant idea. I already had something to play my 2600 games. It was called the Atari 2600. Plus, from early on I remember reading that an adapter was on the way so if for some reason it was a concern I knew I'd be able to buy one before long. Several of my friends had a 5200 as well, and they resorted to the same lo-tech option for playing their catalog of games.

I seriously doubt anyone gave a crap about 2600 compatibility back then.

Edited by jetset, Thu Nov 3, 2011 1:44 PM.

[thegoldenband]

jetset, on Thu Nov 3, 2011 1:43 PM, said:

I seriously doubt anyone gave a crap about 2600 compatibility back then.

*raises hand*

My family certainly did, especially since our 2600 was on the fritz. Keep in mind, too, that the 5200 is a very large console that's sort of a pain in the ass to hook up. When you've either got limited space or small kids, the idea of constantly changing between consoles is unappealing for reasons that I trust are obvious: either the parents get hassled to switch things around, or the kids end up breaking things when they make the change.

Many parents would've rather their kids only had one console that stayed set up all the time -- some of the blue-collar dads I knew growing up (the kind who later smashed their kids' consoles with hammers!) would get very pissed off at any kind of clutter around their TV area.

[UberArcade]

As much as I like all of the classic consoles the 5200 wouldn't stand a chance competing with the SMS. I have a XE and a SMS.

Sega had good conversions of modern arcade games to help sell the system. Atari had good conversions of old arcade games.

[jetset]

thegoldenband, on Thu Nov 3, 2011 2:08 PM, said:

jetset, on Thu Nov 3, 2011 1:43 PM, said:

I seriously doubt anyone gave a crap about 2600 compatibility back then.

*raises hand*

My family certainly did, especially since our 2600 was on the fritz.

Sure, if your 2600 happened to be broken when the 5200 first came out it definitely would have mattered. You got me on that one.

Edited by jetset, Thu Nov 3, 2011 2:38 PM.

[Phredreeke]

To be picky (I'm a bit of a SEGA fanboy), the Sega Master System was more of an evolution of the previous Sega hardware (think going from Game Boy to Game Boy Color) than a cutdown version of the sega computers (which already existed, it was called the SG-1000) The step up from SG-1000 to SMS was fairly large.

I don't think the 5200 would been able to compete. Remember that there wasn't just the SMS and NES, there were several 8-bit computers as well (the most successful being ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64, which european developers supported into the early 90s)

Also getting 3rd party support for the Atari 7800 would have been even more difficult by selling an incompatible system (5200) in Europe instead (although in the end it didn't make a difference, with all 7800 games being developed in america)

[RangerG]

I wish we would have seen the smaller 5200 with better controllers (both in the works at Atari).

[Agent X]

UberArcade, on Thu Nov 3, 2011 2:12 PM, said:

Sega had good conversions of modern arcade games to help sell the system. Atari had good conversions of old arcade games.

To be fair, though, during the period that the 5200 was actively marketed (1982-1984), most of its arcade conversions would have been considered "modern" at that time.