25 replies to this topic

[thgill]

I mentioned this in my thread about the little RGB add on I put together for my Jag and thought perhaps a separate thread would be appropriate.


I an thinking of building a run of Jaguar A/V cables with RGB as well. The cable will have 6 to 12 inch pigtail/harness that has female Stereo audio jacks, female composite jack and female s-video jack as well as a plug for RGB monitors. This way you can plug in your own cables to the harness with whatever length and quality of cable you like. Need 6 ft audio but only 3 ft of s-video? No problem. Use your own cables that suit your needs.


Before I order and test some designs, I need help deciding on a few things:


1. What RGB connector should I use?
I want to use a round 13 pin DIN like Atari RGB monitors do. That way you just plug in the cable from the Atari SC1224 monitor and you are ready to rock with RGB video quality. This is what Atari probably would have done if they had an RGB cable for the Jag (besides Scart). However I could use a more common 9 pin DB connector even a 15 pin HD-15 (vga style connector). Thoughts?


2. Serious Interest in these? I want to build at least 10, but probably no more than 25 for an initial run. Another run could be done at a later time if interest warrants it.




Let me know your thoughts on this. I want to order parts over the weekend for a couple test cables to see how they work out. If all goes well, I can probably still building these for the initial run mid-ish November.

[syntexerror]

I think a run of 10 for now would be good i can see you getting rid of these farley quick i know for certain i would buy one from you.By the way nice job on makeing that RGB addon it looks nice and fits nice and snug to the back not to big and bulky would be a great edition for any jaguar owner.

[Allpaul]

I'd buy one.. I vote for the VGA style.. Do you have a ballpark price in mind for these?

[thgill]

I am reluctant to quote a specific price since I obviously need to get parts in and get an idea of what the run will cost.

And obviously the more of these I build, the better price break I get on parts.


I was thinking something like $30 to $35 per unit. This is just a ballpark range though assuming I build 10 to start with.


However, I know there are several other Jag forums, so spread the word and if the demand is high enough I will make a larger first run with perhaps better pricing.

I hope to show a prototype in the next week or so.

Todd

Edited by thgill, Fri Nov 4, 2011 10:31 AM.

[Allpaul]

Will do!

[NML32]

I'm in and would like the HD-15 (vga style connector).

[thgill]

Is H+V sync important for you guys, or just composite sync?

[NML32]

thgill, on Fri Nov 4, 2011 4:49 PM, said:

Is H+V sync important for you guys, or just composite sync?

Yes/Maybe, my monitor has 4 BNC inputs R/R-Y, G/Y, B-B/Y, and EXT SYNC The inputs are labeled RGB/Component

Is that what you're asking?

Edited by NML32, Fri Nov 4, 2011 5:21 PM.

[thgill]

Yeah, thats composite sync.

[frap]

I'm in for one.

[thgill]

Parts have been ordered for my first 3 units. One for my testing and the 2 others for my beta testers.

I am thinking of using the 13 pin Atari connector for the RGB end connector and offering a small 13 pin din to HD15 adapter optional for folks that want that. Probably $8 for the adapter.

Everyone ok with that?

[syntexerror]

Ya sounds good bro keep up the great work.

[Allpaul]

thgill, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 7:56 AM, said:

Parts have been ordered for my first 3 units. One for my testing and the 2 others for my beta testers.

I am thinking of using the 13 pin Atari connector for the RGB end connector and offering a small 13 pin din to HD15 adapter optional for folks that want that. Probably $8 for the adapter.

Everyone ok with that?

Sounds cool...

[NML32]

thgill, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 7:56 AM, said:

Parts have been ordered for my first 3 units. One for my testing and the 2 others for my beta testers.

I am thinking of using the 13 pin Atari connector for the RGB end connector and offering a small 13 pin din to HD15 adapter optional for folks that want that. Probably $8 for the adapter.

Everyone ok with that?

Works for me.

[Zerosquare]

thgill, on Fri Nov 4, 2011 7:42 AM, said:

I want to use a round 13 pin DIN like Atari RGB monitors do.

Don't. That connector is hard to find (and thus expensive), and the female counterpart (which would be needed for people that have non-Atari monitors) is even rarer. Although there's no ideal choice, I think the safest option is a DB9 connector, since it's probably the most common. For those who have an Atari monitor, using a DIN13-to-DB9 adapter is a solution, and as a bonus it makes your monitor compatible with other machines. Using SCART instead of DB9 would be a good option too, but I think it's not popular in the USA.
DB15HD will probably confuse people and make they think that they can use their standard VGA monitor (which isn't the case).

thgill, on Fri Nov 4, 2011 7:42 AM, said:

Is H+V sync important for you guys, or just composite sync?

Beware. The output labelled "vertical sync" on the pinouts actually outputs composite sync on the Jaguar (actually, you can choose either vertical or composite mode in software, but it's always set to composite because some other parts of the hardware wouldn't work correctly otherwise). I don't know if any/all RGB monitors handle this correctly.
Besides, those outputs are unbuffered, so it may be problematic to connect them directly to a monitor input.

[thgill]

Zerosquare, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:21 PM, said:

thgill, on Fri Nov 4, 2011 7:42 AM, said:

Is H+V sync important for you guys, or just composite sync?

Beware. The output labelled "vertical sync" on the pinouts actually outputs composite sync on the Jaguar (actually, you can choose either vertical or composite mode in software, but it's always set to composite because some other parts of the hardware wouldn't work correctly otherwise). I don't know if any/all RGB monitors handle this correctly.
Besides, those outputs are unbuffered, so it may be problematic to connect them directly to a monitor input.

So, are you saying that the composite sync out on the Jag isn't suitable for usage? Better to use the composite video and a sync stripper circuit for the composite sync?

I wonder how the Catbox handles the Vertical sync then? Because it claims to have to output both composite and vertical sync.

Scart is a no go for North America folks.

[orpheuswaking]

Well Digikey currently has 1639 of the female sockets in stock if you go for the PCB mount option (Female cable connectors in stock too)

http://search.digike...562827069570431

[Zerosquare]

thgill, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:50 PM, said:

So, are you saying that the composite sync out on the Jag isn't suitable for usage?

As a composite sync, the signal itself is fine, but it isn't buffered (unlike the other outputs), so it can cause problems with long cables. Plus, it's not a vertical sync, so monitors that expect real vertical sync may not work fine. All of this is theoritical, I didn't try out in practice.

thgill, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:50 PM, said:

Better to use the composite video and a sync stripper circuit for the composite sync?

I would use a few logic gates to extract the vertical sync signal, and buffer it at the same time. It cannot hurt, and it's cheaper than a sync stripper chip.
I think the CatBox does something like this (but since I don't have one, I can't check).

[Zerosquare]

orpheuswaking, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 5:16 PM, said:

Well Digikey currently has 1639 of the female sockets in stock if you go for the PCB mount option (Female cable connectors in stock too)

http://search.digike...8;uq=634562827069570431

That link doesn't seem to work, I get a "part not found" page.

[thgill]

Zerosquare, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 5:21 PM, said:

thgill, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:50 PM, said:

So, are you saying that the composite sync out on the Jag isn't suitable for usage?

As a composite sync, the signal itself is fine, but it isn't buffered (unlike the other outputs), so it can cause problems with long cables. Plus, it's not a vertical sync, so monitors that expect real vertical sync may not work fine. All of this is theoritical, I didn't try out in practice.

thgill, on Mon Nov 7, 2011 4:50 PM, said:

Better to use the composite video and a sync stripper circuit for the composite sync?

I would use a few logic gates to extract the vertical sync signal, and buffer it at the same time. It cannot hurt, and it's cheaper than a sync stripper chip.
I think the CatBox does something like this (but since I don't have one, I can't check).

Hmm. I will have to experiment a bit with this once my parts arrive. The only monitor I am really concerned with as far as H+V sync is the Goldstar version of the SC1224. According to the Catboxs manual, all the versions of the SC1224 can use both H+V sync and all but the Goldstar can use composite sync. Basically the Goldstar version is the odd man out as far as using composite sync is concerned. I am wondering if I can cheat and use the composite sync for the vertical sync on the SC1224 monitors? I will try and see if my SC1224 with work like this.

I only have one version of the SC1224, I think its the Samsung.

Edited by thgill, Mon Nov 7, 2011 6:14 PM.

[thgill]

Most of my parts have arrived so I can start building my first couple test units.

I have decided on using a DB9 connector for the RGB connector. Probably makes the most sense in the end and makes it easy (and cheap) to adapt to most RGB monitors. I will still offer separately DB9 to Atari 13 pin adapters and DB9 to HD15 adapters for folks who have a 4 connector BNC cable for their RGB monitor (like Sony PVM and etc).


Question: Is there any interest in a S-video/Composite only version? I am considering offering a cheaper A/V only version with s-video, composite and stereo audio and then a deluxe version that offers those features along with the RGB.

Thoughts on that? I want to build and sell what the community wants.

[syntexerror]

Ya i was wondering if you were going to make just a A/V only version with svideo with the RGB.Incase i ever get a RGB monitar.Thats the one i would buy from you ^^ .

[Allpaul]

I'm in for the RGB one...

[thgill]

Can anyone take some nice high res photos of the back of the Jag with just the JagLink cable plugged in?


I want to make sure there is plenty of clearance for both my A/V cable and the JagLink cable to be plugged in at the same time.

[NML32]

How's the cable making coming along?