53 replies to this topic

[José Pereira]

Not for saying wich one looks best, sounds best or playing best...
This is something I really wanted to think and I had some posts about this one on the past...

Just need some answers to start thinking if the A8 could be something better looking with the Arcade feeling.

What I know and think it's best?
By now only one thing: That the A8 would certainly be like it is the original and the CPC, no status on the right side.


Now the questions:
FIRST: Is it really need that the Ball(s) have to be Hardware sprites (PMs. only)?

SECOND: Could all the moving stuff be soft sprites and some of them be soft sprite with PM(s) overlay(s) (like Vaus and Bonus)?

THIRD: All soft sprite and only the Ball(s) be PM...
That I was thinking this way:

The Ball it's 3pixel wide...
If the Ball colour (White seems the best) be PF3 I could use 5th Player 4Missiles.
2Missiles=1Ball and possibles two Balls on each Line.
But there are times when there are three Balls...
Now the THIRD question:
Could it be/look good when just some of the times and it is soo quick that there are three Balls in the same scanline(s)?
(it would be possible to use the Crownland/Contra/Super Mario PMs Flicker Mode but just in 4Missiles as 5th Player?)

Edited by José Pereira, Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:05 AM.

[wood_jl]

I lack the knowledge to answer any of your questions.

However, the A8 version of Arkanoid SUCKS SO BADLY that it's obviously a very poor effort.

The C64 version looks kind of similar, but plays 100% better, and is actually fun. The A8 version isn't even playable, to a true Arkanoid fan. Huge disappointment. The A8 version plays like it was written in BASIC.

[atari-passion]

Hello,

the atari 8bit version is good .

this version uses only 48 KB for compatibility with the 400/800 computers.

Arnaud

[José Pereira]

Come on, no discussing that way...

Just really need answers to the questions to see if I could be thinking right...

And about Memory I think 64Kb. would be a real possibility...
Some more Kbs. of PMs and a little different PFs. Data but I think it can fit in 64Kbs.
(Anyway, as always it's just one more of my ideas/proposals...)

[Rybags]

I'm with wood_jl - the A8 version looks crap, plays crap.

Making the graphics prettier still leaves a game with crappy gameplay.

Breakout games are done to death anyway, so Arkanoid is probably best just forgotten.

[wood_jl]

atari-passion, on Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:36 PM, said:

Hello,

the atari 8bit version is good .

Commodore 64 Arkanoid




Atari 8-bit Arkanoid




So, specifically, what's "good" about the Atari version? The flickery paddle, or the jerky, unsteady movement of the ball? It's a shameful conversion.

José Pereira, on Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:42 PM, said:

Come on, no discussing that way...

I don't know what you mean about no discussing it that way. I just said that it sucks (proof above from Youtube), and I do not see why that should offend anybody. The Atari can do better, and it sounds like maybe you can do it!!

[José Pereira]

No not you in personal...
Like many of other games I have many ideas for what Arkanoid could have been on A8.
I just wanted to have, by now, that questions answered.
I'll cross that answers to my idea(s) and would post a proposal.
(Just one of my games conversions/remakes...)

Edited by José Pereira, Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:15 PM.

[José Pereira]

The Flickery Paddle it's only on NTSC...
I have the original at my PAL Machine and it doesn't Flicker (also in my first Monitor, one of those Polish green ones).
Now that you posted that video I remember if that wouldn't be in NTSC. By now only the Atari800WinPlus was possible to try and see that it is really only flickering in NTSC.
That sure it's some bad programming or they didn't bother with NTSC guys for sure (as Imagine are in a PAL Land)... and I don't even see where this wouldn't fit into NTSC Machines...

Edited by José Pereira, Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:43 PM.

[José Pereira]

Just a start:


Much more to get (like Status, nº of lifes with the nº Vaus gfxs.,...) but:

Like the Imagine version:
-> Fits all in just 1Charset (each Level type has 20/25 chars for the gfxs. and the rest are for the gfxs.)
Each Level gfxs. chars replaced 'on the fly' and total it's: gfxs.+soft sprite=2Kbs. of Data
-> 32bytes wide Narrow Mode.
-> Bonus with one colour different to each type of 'Bonus Letter' (S, L,...)



Different:
-> Paddle looking and colouring amazingly better
(the Paddle sides (Pink) can blink colour like on C64 when the Ball touches Paddle)
-> The side Walls would always be this Blue but the center gfxs. can be other colours.
-> Maximum of 7colours/Blocks different on each line
(like on the last/bottom Blocks but many othjer colours/luminances possible)
-> Enemy guys in 3colours but only one it's from the Backgr. gfxs.


What it would need more it's a new routine for the PMs but fits in something like 1Kb. for the PMs Data...

[José Pereira]

Now it's time to

Edited by José Pereira, Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:36 PM.

[emkay]

Games like Arkanoid (should) used to be in hires on the Atari. The "low" res resolution kills the game on every platform with that restriction.
The C64 ball looks lowres, but it moves in hires.
The Atari version plays crappy. No idea, why the coder used a 32 byte wide screen "that high", but spread the movement horizontally.
32 byte width in hires allows colourful PM overlays though, and a horizontal movement, fitting to the aspect ratio of the game was given then.

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:16 AM, said:

Games like Arkanoid (should) used to be in hires on the Atari. The "low" res resolution kills the game on every platform with that restriction.
The C64 ball looks lowres, but it moves in hires.
The Atari version plays crappy. No idea, why the coder used a 32 byte wide screen "that high", but spread the movement horizontally.
32 byte width in hires allows colourful PM overlays though, and a horizontal movement, fitting to the aspect ratio of the game was given then.

Emkay to be Hi-Resolution it would not be simple to get all the things coloured...
I've show it here on the past, that was something like:
-> 3Balls or shots use 3Missiles with 5th Player enabled
(Missile colour beeing the lighest one and the same as the Backgr. gfxs and would be Masked because using PRIOR1 the Missiles width and xPos change/movement 2:1 would be Masked by taking the same gfxs. PF1 colour and it's luminance)
-> You would need at least 3Players to use on the Bricks (Re-used/DLI at the Bottom for the Paddle).
-> The other Player you have for the Points/Bonus


Now, the Trouble begins:
-> How to colour different the side Walls
-> How to colour the Moving Things (maximum it's 3 each scanline)



I still would get this in 2:1 and the also 2:1/colour-clock movement of A8, because, if you thinking that way then you wouldn't have many of the games... and there are other Arkanoids on A8 done by other guys that doesn't play soo badly...

[José Pereira]

This one just soft sprite and moving in 2:1ratio just like the A8 would be and it seems no problem:

[José Pereira]

Would I have someone to code this and you'll see if that 2:1/colour clock movement would be bad!...
Small changes in some luminances:

Edited by José Pereira, Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:57 AM.

[Heaven/TQA]

Jose... have you looked at Atarimania or Fandal's site for proper Arkanoid-like A8 games?

[José Pereira]

Best way to have always the same Walls colours and luminances but have lots of possible different on the Backgr. gfxs..
This would get possible the other Levels gfxs that you can see here the colouring examples:

Edited by José Pereira, Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:13 AM.

[José Pereira]

Heaven/TQA, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:36 AM, said:

Jose... have you looked at Atarimania or Fandal's site for proper Arkanoid-like A8 games?

There are many and some aren't bad but none of them it's Arkanoid Arcade version...

[Tezz]

Hi Jose,

Arkanoid was discussed here on AA a few years ago. The balls low resolution movement is it's main flaw. An improved 2:1 version is certainly possible and alternatively a hi-res version would allow for accurate gameplay mechanics although with graphics restrictions.
Without the backgrounds, here's an example of a possible hi-res layout..

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Attached Files

•  arkanoid.xex   4.59K   25 downloads

[José Pereira]

By now, I'll try to see if I can get all the Arcade/all Levels Map almost exactly Blocks and the most similar colours.

My Engine would not be difficult to implement and it runs in just 1Charset=1Kb for all screen (PlayingArea+Status+Vaus nº, yes all in 128chars)
And something like 2Kbs. of Gfxs. Data and 1Kb. of PMs. Data.

The screen it's also with the cycles needed because it's in 32bytes wide narrow Mode.

I'll try first to have this Blue gfxs. all Levels (the first I posted was a simple one, the Round 01), like here the Rounds 09 and 25:

(  Arkanoid Blue Round 09.xex   4.34K   14 downloads  Arkanoid Blue Round 25.xex   4.33K   15 downloads)

(EDIT: No need to build all the Gfxs. everytime a new Round Bricks completed because the most important it's the Bricks and the possibility to get the most near as possible colouring)

Edited by José Pereira, Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:10 AM.

[Heaven/TQA]

I guess I am the only one who had fun with the A8 version of Arcanoid?

[Heaven/TQA]

Tezz, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:03 AM, said:

Hi Jose,

Arkanoid was discussed here on AA a few years ago. The balls low resolution movement is it's main flaw. An improved 2:1 version is certainly possible and alternatively a hi-res version would allow for accurate gameplay mechanics although with graphics restrictions.
Without the backgrounds, here's an example of a possible hi-res layout..

Tezz... that looks like Break out without the background texture...

[Tezz]

Heaven/TQA, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:47 AM, said:

I guess I am the only one who had fun with the A8 version of Arcanoid?

I thought it was not too bad when I bought it back when it was released, played it quite a lot.

Heaven/TQA said:

Tezz... that looks like Break out without the background texture...

hehe yea, it is quite plain without the background tiles. Nice to have accurate mechanics though

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:18 AM, said:

emkay, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:16 AM, said:

Games like Arkanoid (should) used to be in hires on the Atari. The "low" res resolution kills the game on every platform with that restriction.
The C64 ball looks lowres, but it moves in hires.
The Atari version plays crappy. No idea, why the coder used a 32 byte wide screen "that high", but spread the movement horizontally.
32 byte width in hires allows colourful PM overlays though, and a horizontal movement, fitting to the aspect ratio of the game was given then.

Emkay to be Hi-Resolution it would not be simple to get all the things coloured...

Gameplay always should stay on top....





It's just, you play Arkanoid the 1st time on the A8, you get somehow a hit to your head Shooting the ball into the front and it jumps to the right ....

That funny guy who made the game, would have done better with a less high screen. It simply doesn't fit to the movement of the ball. Or adjust the physics to that height.
A hires versaion wouldn't have got all needed colours, but it could have the 100% correct gameplay.

[José Pereira]

EDIT: Delected.

Edited by José Pereira, Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:07 AM.

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:06 AM, said:

EDIT: Delected.