595 replies to this topic

[atarilovesyou]

Random Terrain, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 12:52 AM, said:

atarilovesyou, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 12:36 AM, said:

People with opinions and interests who voice them logically, in a way that the developer of this game has, makes a lot more sense than the numpties who are bagging on him for pricing his game too high. It's those nerds who dwell in basements, eagerly awaiting the next reason to cry and whine about why life just doesn't seem to go their way.

Those people should, but won't, get a life. Do something else other than complain. The "poor me" attitude from many of the posts in that thread are really revealing of the personalities behind the nerd rage.

14 pages and a lockout of said thread...yes, indeed: people need to get a friggin LIFE, dude. If you can't see that, then by all means...go play some Star Castle or something else to make it all better.

I must have skipped over the hordes of basement dwellers who were crying that they couldn't play his game. The posts I read seemed to be more about the principle of the thing. Making a port of a game, then saying you can only play it at Atari nerd conventions where he is appearing or if you are very rich is kind of nuggety. I never really liked Star Castle, so I don't care if I ever play it.

Some people really want to play an Atari 2600 version. If someone makes a version they can play, why not? What's it to you? If you 'have a life' why are you wasting time waving your finger at basement dwellers? Shouldn't you be out playing golf or having tea on a yacht somewhere?

Dude, who are you, some kinda nerd avenger? You're missing the point: this isn't a version they 'can' play. It's a game he spent a long time programming and he can do with it as he pleases. What's so hard to understand? You already said you don't like Star Castle, so you don't like the spirit of the OP but that's just your opinion, hardly worthy of the supposed 'community of love' spoken of in the woefully long tirade above.

My comments are directed towards how many nerds here went full-retard on the OP because they couldn't understand this concept: A guy spent a lot of time and effort to create a game. He doesn't want to see his work pirated, which is exactly what would happen if he sold it. So he shows it around at nerd conventions. Apparently some of the nerds here got bent outta nerdshape and decided to sling mud at the programmer, while he tried to explain to said nerds his viewpoints (I should add, without any of the snippy sarcasm that was being used against him).

Perhaps some of the nerd rage spent on this topic would be better spent attending a nerd convention...maybe getting outta Mom's basement might do 'em some good.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some tea to sip on my yacht...good DAY, I say to you, Sir, GOOD-DAY!

[Random Terrain]

atarilovesyou, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 1:53 AM, said:

Perhaps some of the nerd rage spent on this topic would be better spent attending a nerd convention...maybe getting outta Mom's basement might do 'em some good.

But girls might be there and it's a known fact that girls have cooties. I have also heard that they are unclean once a month. That's just gross. Why are they allowed out in public?

This is the main thing I'm having a problem understanding:

If the point was to do the impossible, why would he care if people pirate the game? If it is pirated, he won't get any money out of it, and at the price he is asking, he still won't get any money out of it. No one is going to pay that much. It's impossible. He could give out the ROM freely and make as much money as he is right now. So, was the purpose to do the impossible and show it off to as many people as possible, or was it to do the impossible and soak up as much attention as he can get from live crowds?

Spoiler

I said it was impossible to make someone think "Oh yeah?!! It's not impossible! I have the money! I'm going to buy it! F you, Internet naysayers!"

I expect a commission.

[roland p]

atarilovesyou, on Tue Jan 3, 2012 10:38 PM, said:

Dude programmed it, he can charge whatever he wants for it.

People don't want to pay the price, game doesn't get released.

That is how I think about it too. You can't change people. But I'm not a hard-core atari 2600 fan so my opinion may differ from theirs.

Well, and if the game doesn't get released, homebrewers at atariage will try to create the game instead. I guess that's how the community works

About the pirating thing. I guess a lot of atariage members (not sure if this number will be more or less after the $32K announcement) would buy the game even if it is downloadable. So the atari is the only console where pirating isn't an issue

[Keatah]

I was, at one time, thinking of purchasing the rights. I don't know that I ever would or not because of issues with the better half. She'd rather see the funds go to the church or charity as opposed to some "dumb 30 year old vidoegame". So I'm fighting on two fronts, at home and here in the community. I would be scorned upon for spending that much.

It really isn't that high priced anyways. Look, at a hunnertbux a pop, and if 328 copies can be sold. Well, that's the deal right there. In today's economy, $100 for a homebrew isn't too bad a price.

If we sold 500 copies, I could ask $66 each. I just don't believe the market is that big. I would also collect the money up front, and once the checks are cashed I would then release the game.

[batari]

solidcorp, on Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:28 PM, said:

SoulBlazer, on Sun Jan 1, 2012 4:57 PM, said:

Not to mention, there ARE ways to control the piracy problem if he really wanted to.....I'm sorry, I still see this as a case of 'look what I did, and no one can ever play it, heh heh!' ego stroking.

I respectfully disagree... Are there any Atari 2600 games that are unrippable or unemulatable?

I doubt it, the best we can do is make it hard, but without hard copy protection in the console the 2600 is a 6507 machine that can only run software out of a 4K address space. It's almost trivially easy to either emulate a 6507 to "run" the game on an ICE connected to a cartridge, or monitor the address and data lines while a game is being played "live" to map the data in a cartridge. You can add encryption or key software to the cart, but in such a small system with a community of experts like this, there's bound to be someone who would be up to the challenge of ripping, patching if necessary, and sharing the game. If the 2600 can read it, something else can too. It's only a matter of time.

That is a horrible way of ripping a game. Surely there is a more creative way than that. However, it is correct that no 2600 game is unrippable or unemulatable.

My thoughts are that even slight protection is enough. It is a self-defeating attitude if your only reason for not selling cartridges is because eventually, one person may copy it! A good goal is to make it just hard enough to defeat casual attempts to copy, which should stave off folks long enough so you can sell all you would ever sell (which won't be that much, regardless... a few hundred units, tops.) Even then, it's unlikely that if anyone does crack the protection, it will be disseminated. The community here isn't like that.

There is an individual who does sell homebrew games without permission. However, to this day we haven't seen him defeat any protection (and I use protection loosely here - I have personally used creative bankswitching to defeat casual copying.) I have not heard of any successful cracks of it, much less found any of these games for sale, even much less heard of the dissemination of any cracked binaries.

The simple fact is 99.99999% of the world population doesn't care about our tiny hobby, and those who do aren't likely to rip and distribute your game in any manner that would hurt sales.

I'll leave you with one thought - Harmony is made of off-the-shelf parts. Someone with a little knowhow could reverse-engineer one and produce and sell a clone. Why hasn't anyone done that?

[Andrew Davie]

Keatah, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 3:41 AM, said:

I would be scorned upon for spending that much.

Don't waste your money. For only $30K I'll write you your own personal version with much nicer graphics and gameplay!
Cheers
A

[Trinity]

Someone here at Atari Age should be able to brew up a port of this f/n bleeding game!

[Pioneer4x4]

I really want to chime in with my 2¢ but don't want to tick anyone off. (and I hope I don't...) I do not intend to anyway.
I think the entire project with solidcorp's efforts are impressive. Not just the actual software, I'll leave that alone since it is covered so much already.
I really like how theh hardware has been developed including the extra lights and machining a case. That is VERY atypical and something I am extremely interested in as well. I have had my own ideas for in/on cartridge indicators that I haven't bothered testing yet and always thought it was a valid idea.
And this topic is turning in to the 3rd rail of "Homebrew" discussion.
I like how some of the recent bigger projects have included attempts to make it %100 legit with the original programmers/company. That is like the original "Stella get's a new brain" CD to me.
As for the quoted price, I am entertained by it, not offended/insulted/angered... I have created unusual items in the past for myself and said they are not for sale, but hey if someone offers me what I call "Stupid Money", they can have it. (I do not mean anything negative by that term to the seller or creator, I mean that "I would be STOOPID NOT to take that amount)
I ass-u-me that the amound solidcorp quoted is exactly that. He feels that the value of his creation is much higher than the market, but if someone offers him that number, he would feel stupid not to take it.

Like the quote, "If I had the opportunity to take the money and run, I for one could use the excercise!"

[solidcorp]

I would very much like to contact the Star Castle license holder.

Keatah, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 3:41 AM, said:

I was, at one time, thinking of purchasing the rights. I don't know that I ever would or not because of issues with the better half...

Keatah, how much are the rights? Who is the IP holder? How can I reach them?
(did you ever find Earth Friend?)

Andrew, Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:09 AM you posted:

Quote

...I've contacted the copyright holder of Star Castle just to see what they have to say. I'll share their reply, if any.

and I replied Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 10:23 privately via messenger:

Quote

...I have really really been trying hard to get the Star Castle license and am curious to find out who you are contacting at which company. You said it as though you *know* who the legal license holder is. As I said, I already talked to WB, WMS, and Atari, none of which know they have the license. If you have any inroads I would sure appreciate it if you either shared them or had them contact me...

Who did you contact? Did they have the rights? How can I reach them?

If anyone else in the community is able to help me contact the Star Castle license holder I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

D. Scott Williamson

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Andrew Davie, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 4:52 AM, said:

Don't waste your money. For only $30K I'll write you your own personal version with much nicer graphics and gameplay!

I do it for 29K.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Actually I think I should write it for free, or this unpleasant thread will never stop...

[godzillajoe]

Yikes, shoulda never asked. Was genuinely curious though. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have called the guy an attention whore nerd either. In the end, he can do what he wants for whatever reasons we may not understand. But If I wrote something that cool, I'd want everyone to play it and suck up to me! Oh well.

Now, who's the $#@! who has that Charlie Brown rom and when will THAT be released?!

[cd-w]

I have made some more progress on my Star Castle demo for those who are interested.

Chris

[xybot67]

cd-w, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:35 PM, said:

I have made some more progress on my Star Castle demofor those who are interested.

Chris

Looks GREAT Definitely on the right track!

[Pioneer4x4]

I tried it on real hardware and it world great. It was smoother than on Stella.

[stephena]

Pioneer4x4, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:44 PM, said:

I tried it on real hardware and it world great. It was smoother than on Stella.

If you're having 'smoothness' issues, try turning on OpenGL rendering in Stella and select 'GL vsync'.

[Pioneer4x4]

stephena, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:15 AM, said:

Pioneer4x4, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:44 PM, said:

I tried it on real hardware and it world great. It was smoother than on Stella.

If you're having 'smoothness' issues, try turning on OpenGL rendering in Stella and select 'GL vsync'.

I really don't know how to describe what I was seeing in stella. It was almost as if it was going in and out of "flicker"
The gl options are disabled in mine. I'll putz with it later.

Edited by Pioneer4x4, Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:40 AM.

[stephena]

Pioneer4x4, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:37 AM, said:

stephena, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:15 AM, said:

Pioneer4x4, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:44 PM, said:

I tried it on real hardware and it world great. It was smoother than on Stella.

If you're having 'smoothness' issues, try turning on OpenGL rendering in Stella and select 'GL vsync'.

I really don't know how to describe what I was seeing in stella. It was almost as if it was going in and out of "flicker"
The gl options are disabled in mine. I'll putz with it later.

That's because the ROM uses 30Hz flicker. Try turning on phosphor mode with Alt-p (in addition to OpenGL mode previously mentioned).

The next major version of Stella (4.0) will default to hardware-accelerated OpenGL/DirectX, and the above modes will be used automatically. For now, you'll have to turn it on manually.

[Godzilla]

wow great work!

[ls650]

Thanks for putting your efforts out for others to enjoy, cd-w.

[roland p]

stephena, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:15 AM, said:

If you're having 'smoothness' issues, try turning on OpenGL rendering in Stella and select 'GL vsync'.

I always have that option turned on, but the flickering returns once in a while (every 30 seconds). And that's not the 30Hz flicker, but a lower frequency flicker, like as if the vcs framerate is out of sync with the pc's framerate and it tries to sync again.

[stephena]

roland p, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:34 AM, said:

stephena, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:15 AM, said:

If you're having 'smoothness' issues, try turning on OpenGL rendering in Stella and select 'GL vsync'.

I always have that option turned on, but the flickering returns once in a while (every 30 seconds). And that's not the 30Hz flicker, but a lower frequency flicker, like as if the vcs framerate is out of sync with the pc's framerate and it tries to sync again.

This can happen if your monitor framerate isn't 60Hz. Most LCDs are in that range, but if you're using a CRT monitor at 85Hz or so, it might still be an issue. It can also happen if OpenGL vsync isn't fully supported on your system (some drivers state that they support it but really don't). This is why I plan to move to Direct3D in Windows for the next major release; OpenGL support isn't as good in Windows as it is in OSX and Linux.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Just you guys wait, cd-w will get done with it and when you least expect it, announce his finished product for the low, low price of $26,000......gotta keep the market competitive you know!

J/K

[RevEng]

stephena, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:45 PM, said:

roland p, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:34 AM, said:

I always have that option turned on, but the flickering returns once in a while (every 30 seconds). And that's not the 30Hz flicker, but a lower frequency flicker, like as if the vcs framerate is out of sync with the pc's framerate and it tries to sync again.

This can happen if your monitor framerate isn't 60Hz. Most LCDs are in that range, but if you're using a CRT monitor at 85Hz or so, it might still be an issue. It can also happen if OpenGL vsync isn't fully supported on your system (some drivers state that they support it but really don't). This is why I plan to move to Direct3D in Windows for the next major release; OpenGL support isn't as good in Windows as it is in OSX and Linux.

I get this with OpenGL and Linux (NVidia closed drivers), even with GL VSYNC turned on and the framerate at 60Hz. Regular flickering always appears normal and even, but I think flickerblinds really tends to exaggerate minor discrepancies in timing. The screen will be stable for a time, but other times the lines sometimes "dance" and flicker in different patterns.

I noticed it when I was working on 21 Blue, and the effect (if it happens) is a bit more obvious there.

[stephena]

RevEng, on Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:38 PM, said:

I get this with OpenGL and Linux (NVidia closed drivers), even with GL VSYNC turned on and the framerate at 60Hz. Regular flickering always appears normal and even, but I think flickerblinds really tends to exaggerate minor discrepancies in timing. The screen will be stable for a time, but other times the lines sometimes "dance" and flicker in different patterns.

I noticed it when I was working on 21 Blue, and the effect (if it happens) is a bit more obvious there.

I'll look into it when I get a chance.