125 replies to this topic

[Mendon]

Sorry but I like physical media and the ability to still purchase and play a game 10 years from now!!

Story: http://games.ign.com.../1214654p1.html


Mendon

[Emehr]

Is it me or is "the pre-owned market" like this big straw man that manufacturers are constructing to do something they've always intended to do but feel like they need to justify it: switch to download only distribution. I mean, come on. We're not stupid. The rental and pre-owned market has been around forever. Why is it only now that it's an issue? I don't buy it. They can demonize used game sales all they want but all it's doing is insulting our intelligence and making themselves look like a bunch of entitled adolescents.

When consoles go download-only, I'm out. It's bullshit and consumers will see zero benefits from it.

[Brian O]

I feel the same way about books. There's something nice about owning something that's tangible. That looks like some thought and effort went into it. Something that can be physically, not virtually, passed down from one generation to the next.

-B

[Mendon]

I thought it was a good example the article used showing that prices for downloadable titles are more expensive than disk based.

In reality, there are cost savings for the companies with downloadable games (no pressing of disks, no cases, no instruction manuals, no shipping costs, etc etc) but none of these savings are passed along to the customer at the present time.


Mendon

[Emehr]

Mendon, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:22 AM, said:

In reality, there are cost savings for the companies with downloadable games (no pressing of disks, no cases, no instruction manuals, no shipping costs, etc etc) but none of these savings are passed along to the customer at the present time.

It's like the big switch from cartridges to CDs and how much cheaper they would be to manufacture. It's only good for the manufacturer's bottom line. Anything they say otherwise is pure, steaming bullshit.

[Metal Ghost]

Mendon, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:22 AM, said:

I thought it was a good example the article used showing that prices for downloadable titles are more expensive than disk based.

In reality, there are cost savings for the companies with downloadable games (no pressing of disks, no cases, no instruction manuals, no shipping costs, etc etc) but none of these savings are passed along to the customer at the present time.


Mendon

I, for one, choose physical media over download when I have a choice. However, it may be inaccurate to assume that no cost savings are passed to the consumer just because the relative price of a game has stayed the same. First off, the cost of a game today is basically the same as it was 20 years ago. With inflation, that's really saying something. At the same time, it takes a lot more people to make a game today than it did back then (I'm talking AAA titles here....not the smaller indie games). And again, the price that a game can command in the market has not been able to increase in order to recoup these additional costs.

So if a company wants to reduce their MFG costs in order to not pass along added overhead costs to me, then be my guest.

Just providing some alternate perspective. For the other reasons mentioned, again, I still prefer physical media.

[Atariboy]

Metal Ghost, he's talking about 2011 prices. Downloadable versions of a game are often the more expensive option for the consumer. The vast majority of the releases on Microsoft's Games on Demand service can be bought new from a wide variety of retailers for less than Microsoft is charging for a download (And often, significantly less). And usually the best case is the price is the same as an actual physical disc that you actually own.

Things like inflation and the size of a development team have nothing to do with what he was talking about. Downloadable versions of games should be cheaper than the retail version if they really want us to embrace this concept. Pass the savings on to the consumer that they're getting by not having to manufacture and distribute something.

Edited by Atariboy, Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:17 PM.

[cimerians]

Mendon, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:22 AM, said:

I thought it was a good example the article used showing that prices for downloadable titles are more expensive than disk based.

In reality, there are cost savings for the companies with downloadable games (no pressing of disks, no cases, no instruction manuals, no shipping costs, etc etc) but none of these savings are passed along to the customer at the present time.


Mendon

Thats absolutely true. No middle man either for the most part. They get close to MAX profit and to top it all off, whats the other thing they are trying to accomplish?

They CONTROL who-owns-what. Thats right. They can take away the game from you at will (if its in the EULA). They can say we dont support it years from now or simply tell you that you can only play it on ONE SYSTEM for a few years.

They want to control piracy and they want to control who owns the games and make money off of it too.

This has HUGE ramifications to our hobby of classic gaming and used games. If you visit this website you must love to throw on a game of Atari 2600 Space Invaders. Hook up a console like an Atari 5200 or Coleco from time to time or maybe read a Retro magazine and visit an auction or museum. Its a HOBBY more than anything.

There's millions if not billions of people who depend on used games as well. To buy or sell for themselves. Granted I love saving space at home with download only games but what about:

- The Hobby.
- Buying and Selling a Video Game

My guess is...emulation is the future for me. Hacking and the biggest question in my mind: Do I care enough? Not sure anymore.

Edited by cimerians, Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:16 PM.

[StanJr]

If modern gaming goes all DL and no physical, I am out.

[Chris Leach]

I'm out...new games download only? Never in my book....!

~it has been written~

[Animan]

I'll be the weird one here and say I'll keep playing new games until they stop being fun, regardless if I can't get a physical copy of it or not.

Edited by Animan, Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:48 PM.

[onlysublime]

I just bought Joust for 49 cents on XBLA. darn if I can find that deal with getting it for that price for the Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, Atari Lynx consoles or Atari 8-bit or Atari ST home computers..

[thegamezmaster]

Mendon, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:59 AM, said:

Sorry but I like physical media and the ability to still purchase and play a game 10 years from now!!

Story: http://games.ign.com.../1214654p1.html


Mendon

I totally agree!

[xg4bx]

of course they love digital distribution, it allows them to price-fix and kill off sales and price competition.


pardon my french but this industry is filled with nothing but f*cking pussy whiners. waaaaaah used games. waaaaah gamestop. NO other industry whines and cries about used goods like the game industry does.

[bomberpunk]

xg4bx, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:09 PM, said:

pardon my french but this industry is filled with nothing but f*cking pussy whiners. waaaaaah used games. waaaaah gamestop. NO other industry whines and cries about used goods like the game industry does.

i call bullshit on that; the music industry has been in this boat long before gaming.

[xg4bx]

Atariboy, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:07 PM, said:

Metal Ghost, he's talking about 2011 prices. Downloadable versions of a game are often the more expensive option for the consumer. The vast majority of the releases on Microsoft's Games on Demand service can be bought new from a wide variety of retailers for less than Microsoft is charging for a download (And often, significantly less). And usually the best case is the price is the same as an actual physical disc that you actually own.

Things like inflation and the size of a development team have nothing to do with what he was talking about. Downloadable versions of games should be cheaper than the retail version if they really want us to embrace this concept. Pass the savings on to the consumer that they're getting by not having to manufacture and distribute something.

of course "supposed to" and reality are 2 different things. look at the prices of ebooks on amazon. i'd love publishers to explain how ebooks are often $5-$10 more than physical copies.

they'll simply come up with some bullshit excuse as to why the dl games are still $60.

[xg4bx]

bomberpunk, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:12 PM, said:

xg4bx, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:09 PM, said:

pardon my french but this industry is filled with nothing but f*cking pussy whiners. waaaaaah used games. waaaaah gamestop. NO other industry whines and cries about used goods like the game industry does.

i call bullshit on that; the music industry has been in this boat long before gaming.

ok thats fair. and look how well they've been doing lately as a result .

what companies don't realize is that there are many out there who simply decide that they don't need their product in their lives. i used to buy boatloads of cds, i now buy maybe 1 a year. i don't pirate or buy used either, i simply go without. i have zero problem voting with my $$$ i do it all day long.

[toptenmaterial]

We all hate this idea... but it is coming.

[pocketmego]

Here is where I stand on this...

It's coming! There is NO stopping it. Be it 5, 10, or 20 years, the end of physical game media is upon us and WILL Happen. It sucks and I don't agree with it 100% and like most people, I never really will. But, trying to fight it seems incredibly pointless to me. This has been something the game companies have been wanting for the last 10 years. They now have plans to offer up Gamestop and the growing used game market as the sacrificial lamb to slaughter that will make this happen. Gamestop is HELPING all this along by being such a horrifically awful company that is hated by so many consumers.

This is one of the reasons why I got behind ONLIVE as strongly as I have. It's going to happen anyway (the world is going to hell in a hand basket), I have seen the future and decided to hedge my bets early. I've chosen a company I really like that offers really good deals and has a great selection of games and an easy way to play them virtually anywhere and on damn near any device I own.(I'm holding the handle).

[IntellivisionDude]

I predict it will eventually fail and/or people will backlash and we will see another video game crash. Then Sega comes back out of hibernation and makes a new console that can play cartridges and disc games and saves the day.

[Metal Ghost]

Atariboy, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:07 PM, said:

Metal Ghost, he's talking about 2011 prices. Downloadable versions of a game are often the more expensive option for the consumer. The vast majority of the releases on Microsoft's Games on Demand service can be bought new from a wide variety of retailers for less than Microsoft is charging for a download (And often, significantly less). And usually the best case is the price is the same as an actual physical disc that you actually own.

Things like inflation and the size of a development team have nothing to do with what he was talking about. Downloadable versions of games should be cheaper than the retail version if they really want us to embrace this concept. Pass the savings on to the consumer that they're getting by not having to manufacture and distribute something.

Ok, I get that. But, I think that has more to do with excess inventory than anything else.

Let me explain my thoughts: When a Games-on-Demand game gets released at the same time (or just slightly after) a physical copy, they typically run the same price. Yea, you might be able to get a free gift card for the one at Target or something, but the price is pretty darn similar. Should the download version be cheaper because there's no MFG or distribution costs? Well yea, I suppose so. There are infrastructure costs though....we can guess that they're cheaper, but how much so I doubt anyone here really can quantify that. Plus, they probably figure there's a premium to be had for the convenience of being able to download it and not waste time and effort going to the store. 99% of the audience here could care less about that and in fact place a premium on having a copy of the game in their hot little hand, but that's not true of everyone.

Ok, 8 months down the road the version at Target is now running $20, while the Games-on-Demand version is still full price or just a bit lower. Well, it comes down to the fact that there are costs associated with storing those discs, along with the 'opportunity costs' associated with shelf space being tied up on a game that's now not the latest and greatest. Digital....no such issues.

I'm sorry, but I can't damn a company for trying to make market price on their product. If they can make what they deem is good profit and overall revenue by continuing to sell the game at full price digitally, then god bless'em.

Having said all that, this is just the reason why I don't buy digital for games that I can otherwise get for retail. But my one-size doesn't fit all! Some people like not having to go get a game or search online to save that last $5, plus not having to swap discs, and they don't care about having the game in 20 years (because, quite frankly, in 20 years they're not going to care about playing a 20 year old game), etc.

As far as games moving to download only....I don't know. I don't see it, at least not for another generation, if not 2 or 3. Why? Well, think of all the millions of square feet of 'in your face, my kid just went down this aisle and now wants that game' type of shelf space that's in just the US alone. Every game and console box that's sitting in a Target or a Wal-Mart is a type of free advertising. I don't think that the game companies are going to be in a rush to get rid of that.

I know that some rumors for the next Xbox are saying that there could be two versions....a set-top box version and then a more traditional version. If that's even true, which at this stage in the game has to be taken with a grain of salt, then that would imply that perhaps the set-top box version would allow for digital downloads only, while the traditional version would also allow for physical copies. I think that's a good compromise. For someone how doesn't care how they get their gaming on, then they get to save maybe $50 on the cost of their console. For those of us who do, then we buy the more traditional console.

I don't know....I can't really be too worried with what happens a generation after that. We could be playing holographic games that can't fit on a disc at that point, for all I know

[IntellivisionDude]

And what are people like this going to do when it's strictly downloadable only. They will lose out on a lot of gamers who are also collectors. I won't be able to display my downloaded game on a shelf.

[moycon]

Animan, on Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:46 PM, said:

I'll be the weird one here and say I'll keep playing new games until they stop being fun, regardless if I can't get a physical copy of it or not.

Nah I'm with you on this one. Could care less if physical media goes away. After heavily investing in thousands of dollars over the years to buy movies, music and games, often time multiple times, after which having dozens of boxes of next to worthless media taking up space years later. I'm done stock piling media. If I didn't have so much shit related to these dime a dozen industries I could buy a smaller house.

[Emehr]

The download-only business model has huge implications for the historical preservation of gaming. Whether or not anybody wants to play these games twenty years from now is completely beside the point. Developers don't get ideas for games by only looking at what's been out in the past five years.

[Skarrj]

Emehr, on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:35 AM, said:

The download-only business model has huge implications for the historical preservation of gaming. Whether or not anybody wants to play these games twenty years from now is completely beside the point. Developers don't get ideas for games by only looking at what's been out in the past five years.

You actually bring up a point I had not thought about before. It will be hard to get some creative ideas from playing a game if you cant actually play the game anymore.