12 replies to this topic

[DarkLord]

Okay, got some time to play around with the PAK this evening. First of all, as per the "SupeSTacy" guide,
I had to bend the power header pins on the motherboard over at a 45-90 deg angle. Second, I had to
add 2 levels of risers (connector sockets?) still, just to get the PAK to clear stuff on the motherboard
itself, including those pins to the power headers. I put cardboard lining on the bottom of the board
to make sure nothing shorted out by contact.

With the jumpers on the PAK left in the same positions that it came to me in, I tried to bootup.

White screen. Nothing else (no smoke or pop! sounds, if that's good news).

So I powered down, then one at a time, I changed the jumpers (open or closed, depending on what
they were at), then tried to boot up each time, with each single change.

White screen. Nothing else.

I went back and pulled the PAK and reinserted it, just to make sure. As far as I can tell, I've got it in correctly.

So before I conclude that the board itself is damaged (remember, it came to me that way), 2 questions
immediately spring to mind:

Would the risers cause problems?

Are we sure I've got the TOS 2.06 ROMs correctly inserted into the PAK board? Reason I ask that is years
ago, on a TOS board upgrade from FastTech, I had the ROMs in the wrong way around, and a white screen
is all it would give.

Here's a pic of the TOS 2.06 ROMs inserted into the PAK:



Thanks all.

PS Have this thread going at AtariForum as well, but not all people visit both places so posting here too.

[DarkLord]

Take a look at this gang. If you thought it was crowded in there before,
or that the T25 boards were big, well...





You'll notice I also managed to pick up a 68882 chip, so I'm assuming I
have to close J3 to enable it.

I also picked up a Pupla/2 board. This small board is supposed to act as
a cache between the PAK and the motherboard, helping with stability and
timing problems.





Still waiting on the modified TOS 3.06 Eproms. Love to find a working FRAK
board too!

So much to do...baby steps, one thing at a time, as Sean says...

[Lynxman]

The ROM is connected with 32 data bits to the CPU.
Split the TOS to 4 Eproms and try again.

[DarkLord]

Lynxman, on Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:41 PM, said:

The ROM is connected with 32 data bits to the CPU.
Split the TOS to 4 Eproms and try again.

Yeah, this thread is a bit behind the one at AtariForum.

I've got Sloopy roped in to burn the Eproms for me, and
I've now got the English modifed PAK TOS 3.06 version,
(already sent to Sloopy) so I should be good to go as soon
as Sloopy finishes with them.

[DarkLord]

Well, Sloopy has been sick, and I think he's backed up on SIO2PC orders,
so its apparently going to be a little while before I get the Eproms. (no
problem, always lots of other things to do - get better Sloopy!)

So...I've tooled around with a couple of other things.

I was concerned about everything packed in so tight, so I've added some
insulation to the bottom of the power supply board and the PAK board:





On the PAK board, I also glued two square semi-hard foam blocks to one
side. I did this so that the PAK board is more stable when inserted into
the socket. Otherwise, it tips over very easily,

Here are some shots of the power supply headers and how I had to bend
them over about 45 degrees or so. Again, something else that had to be
done to make room for the PAK board:







Is this fun or what?

[DarkLord]

Okay, found these from Sloopy in the mail today:



So I put labels on them, inserted them into the PAK board and booted up:



Well, that's certainly a good sign, don't ya think?

We get to a desktop, and info reports this:



Sean (Ralcools) HD floppy mod works with it okay:



Gembench reports this:



So its looking good right now. Lots of things to do yet, and figure out. I had to
remove the 68882 chip. I couldn't figure out what jumpers to set or something
because it refused to boot up with it in the PAK board.

I also need to work on the way the board is mounted. At least once I had to press/reseat
it, because it started booting up with a blue background screen then bombed. The reseat
fixed this. The board is a bit unstable, with the pins all one one side, so its unbalanced.

I can't help but feel this is a big step forward though.

[Lynxpro]

Stupid question, but do any games make use of a 68881/2? Or is it just Mark Williams C and various desktop publishing apps that can not only recognize it but also use it?

There's a guy on YouTube who posted video of the difference between running a stock 8Mhz 68000 and a 16Mhz 68000 when playing Gauntlet, but I was under the impression that most upgrades - like with TOS upgrades - tends to bring out incompatibility issues with the various games...

[DarkLord]

Lynxpro, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:28 PM, said:

Stupid question, but do any games make use of a 68881/2? Or is it just Mark Williams C and various desktop publishing apps that can not only recognize it but also use it?

The only stupid question is the one not asked.

As far as I know, very few if any ST games actually make use of a FPU. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help.

I believe, as you mentioned, its most productivity software that gains the most benefit.

That being said, a lot of the re-released games from Dbug and Klapauzius.net are now coded to run on, and take advantage of, the higher end Atari machines (Falcon for example, and run from hard drive).

These guys are doing an awesome job at bringing back long dead games and making them usable!

Lynxpro, on Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:28 PM, said:

There's a guy on YouTube who posted video of the difference between running a stock 8Mhz 68000 and a 16Mhz 68000 when playing Gauntlet, but I was under the impression that most upgrades - like with TOS upgrades - tends to bring out incompatibility issues with the various games...

Yes, some games, even without being recoded, will benefit from an upgraded machine. I think the 3D type games definitely do.

HTHs.

[DarkLord]

Well, using Frank's translation below, I've now got compatibility mode working
on my PAK. I've got the A version, and apparently my board already has the
"switch-over-GAL P3", so all I had to do was put a 68000 CPU in the U7 socket
on the PAK board, and connect a switch to J5.

Now I can power off in PAK mode, flip the switch, and it boots back up using
the original TOS 1.04 from the STacy!

I'm really starting to be a big fan of this board. German engineering, FTW!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Translation by Frank Themann>

The translation is:

4.5 PAK and 68000 in alternating operation mode

For compatibility, it is possible to operate either an existing PAK and a
68000 cpu in alternating operation mode.
The switch-over cannot be performed during operation, though a cold-start is
neccessary to erase the invalid system variables.
Mode switching is done by jumper J5 which can be connected to a switch via a
short-kept cable.

To operate in compatibility mode (the german text says "emergency mode"), a
68000 has to be inserted to the cpu socket (U7).
Furthermore, J6, which is the jumper for the PAK-only-mode, has to be left
open.
At last, the (circuit-board version dependend) switch-over-GAL P3 has to be
inserted.

Owner of the new A-layout board have to use version P3-PUK-A which can be
soldered to the board directly since the GAL program will probably not be
changed.
Now the modifications are done.

Owners of older PAK-layout boards have to use version P3-PUK, and they have
to rewire the board as follows:

1. /BG_68K pin 11 U7 to pin 9 PUK-GAL
2. /BR_68K pin 13 U7 to pin 13 PUK-GAL
3. E_68K pin 2O U7 to pin 6 PUK-GAL
4. /BG_PAK pin 11 CON2 to pin 12 PUK-GAL
5. /BR_PAK pin 13 CON2 to pin 8 PUK-GAL
6. E_PAK pin 2O CON2 to pin 15 PUK-GAL
7. /PAK_EN pin 2 J5 to pin 2 PUK-GAL
8. /BR_2O pin 1 J6 to pin 19 PUK-GAL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for that translation Frank - great job!

[DarkLord]

Just an update on this project:

PAK board now has the clockbuffer/patch installed, 50mhz 68882 FPU, and I've
got both 40mhz and 50mhz 680030's.

So far, I've been able to run the PAK board in my STacy at up to 40mhz. I'm
working on getting the latest GAL revisions in place, as well as seeing if I
can get 80ns memory in the STacy's memory board. I need that, if I'm going
to get it to run correctly at 50mhz. I'm a bit worried about heat - the 030 chip
gets fairly hot after 2-3 hours usage. I'm looking at fans, heatsinks, etc, but
as always with the STacy, you're fighting space and available power.

Here is a screenshot of Gembench at 40mhz, with the FPU in place:

[Fox-1 / mnx]

DarkLord, on Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:56 AM, said:

I'm looking at fans, heatsinks, etc, but as always with the STacy, you're fighting space and available power.

I wouldn't worry about the power for such a small fan. The available space is a different issue :-)

[DarkLord]

Fox-1 / mnx, on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:47 PM, said:

I wouldn't worry about the power for such a small fan. The available space is a different issue :-)

Right, space is like, in my face at every turn on this project <rolls eyes>

Can't help but worry about the power too though. I've got a new internal power supply board in my
STacy, but still....minus's are that the STacy's internal P/S board is notoriously weak, we're powering
a powerful accelerator board + a new screen/inverter, etc,...

Plus is that the very voltage hungry original 20meg hard drive is gone, replaced by the Ultrasatan and
SDcards, which should use much less.

Probably just have to find something small with low reqs and try it. OR maybe do as Jo Even suggested
and add a mini Pico PS.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

DarkLord, on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:34 PM, said:

Right, space is like, in my face at every turn on this project <rolls eyes>

You know what they say: bigger is better :-)

For a bit of cooling you can put a small heat sink on the CPU and place a small fan to blow sideways over the CPU. It's not that the fan has to be straight on top of the CPU. As long as it gets some airflow it'll help.

DarkLord, on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:34 PM, said:

OR maybe do as Jo Even suggested and add a mini Pico PS.

I'd go for a replacement PS. Those modern ones are able to deliver more power, run cooler and all at a smaller foot print which will free up a little bit of space.