First PAK board bootup attempt

[+DarkLord]

Okay, got some time to play around with the PAK this evening. First of all, as per the "SupeSTacy" guide,

I had to bend the power header pins on the motherboard over at a 45-90 deg angle. Second, I had to

add 2 levels of risers (connector sockets?) still, just to get the PAK to clear stuff on the motherboard

itself, including those pins to the power headers. I put cardboard lining on the bottom of the board

to make sure nothing shorted out by contact.

 

With the jumpers on the PAK left in the same positions that it came to me in, I tried to bootup.

 

White screen. Nothing else (no smoke or pop! sounds, if that's good news).

 

So I powered down, then one at a time, I changed the jumpers (open or closed, depending on what

they were at), then tried to boot up each time, with each single change.

 

White screen. Nothing else.

 

I went back and pulled the PAK and reinserted it, just to make sure. As far as I can tell, I've got it in correctly.

 

So before I conclude that the board itself is damaged (remember, it came to me that way), 2 questions

immediately spring to mind:

 

Would the risers cause problems?

 

Are we sure I've got the TOS 2.06 ROMs correctly inserted into the PAK board? Reason I ask that is years

ago, on a TOS board upgrade from FastTech, I had the ROMs in the wrong way around, and a white screen

is all it would give.

 

Here's a pic of the TOS 2.06 ROMs inserted into the PAK:

 

 

Thanks all.

 

PS Have this thread going at AtariForum as well, but not all people visit both places so posting here too.

[+DarkLord]

Take a look at this gang. If you thought it was crowded in there before,

or that the T25 boards were big, well...

 

 

 

You'll notice I also managed to pick up a 68882 chip, so I'm assuming I

have to close J3 to enable it.

 

I also picked up a Pupla/2 board. This small board is supposed to act as

a cache between the PAK and the motherboard, helping with stability and

timing problems.

 

 

 

Still waiting on the modified TOS 3.06 Eproms. Love to find a working FRAK

board too!

 

So much to do...baby steps, one thing at a time, as Sean says...

[Lynxman]

The ROM is connected with 32 data bits to the CPU.

Split the TOS to 4 Eproms and try again.

[+DarkLord]

The ROM is connected with 32 data bits to the CPU.

Split the TOS to 4 Eproms and try again.

 

Yeah, this thread is a bit behind the one at AtariForum.

 

I've got Sloopy roped in to burn the Eproms for me, and

I've now got the English modifed PAK TOS 3.06 version,

(already sent to Sloopy) so I should be good to go as soon

as Sloopy finishes with them.

[+DarkLord]

Well, Sloopy has been sick, and I think he's backed up on SIO2PC orders,

so its apparently going to be a little while before I get the Eproms. (no

problem, always lots of other things to do - get better Sloopy!)

 

So...I've tooled around with a couple of other things.

 

I was concerned about everything packed in so tight, so I've added some

insulation to the bottom of the power supply board and the PAK board:

 

 

 

On the PAK board, I also glued two square semi-hard foam blocks to one

side. I did this so that the PAK board is more stable when inserted into

the socket. Otherwise, it tips over very easily,

 

Here are some shots of the power supply headers and how I had to bend

them over about 45 degrees or so. Again, something else that had to be

done to make room for the PAK board:

 

 

 

 

Is this fun or what?

[+DarkLord]

Okay, found these from Sloopy in the mail today:

 

 

So I put labels on them, inserted them into the PAK board and booted up:

 

 

Well, that's certainly a good sign, don't ya think?

 

We get to a desktop, and info reports this:

 

 

Sean (Ralcools) HD floppy mod works with it okay:

 

 

Gembench reports this:

 

 

So its looking good right now. Lots of things to do yet, and figure out. I had to

remove the 68882 chip. I couldn't figure out what jumpers to set or something

because it refused to boot up with it in the PAK board.

 

I also need to work on the way the board is mounted. At least once I had to press/reseat

it, because it started booting up with a blue background screen then bombed. The reseat

fixed this. The board is a bit unstable, with the pins all one one side, so its unbalanced.

 

I can't help but feel this is a big step forward though.

[Lynxpro]

Stupid question, but do any games make use of a 68881/2? Or is it just Mark Williams C and various desktop publishing apps that can not only recognize it but also use it?

 

There's a guy on YouTube who posted video of the difference between running a stock 8Mhz 68000 and a 16Mhz 68000 when playing Gauntlet, but I was under the impression that most upgrades - like with TOS upgrades - tends to bring out incompatibility issues with the various games...

[+DarkLord]

Stupid question, but do any games make use of a 68881/2? Or is it just Mark Williams C and various desktop publishing apps that can not only recognize it but also use it?

 

The only stupid question is the one not asked.

 

As far as I know, very few if any ST games actually make use of a FPU. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help.

 

I believe, as you mentioned, its most productivity software that gains the most benefit.

 

That being said, a lot of the re-released games from Dbug and Klapauzius.net are now coded to run on, and take advantage of, the higher end Atari machines (Falcon for example, and run from hard drive).

 

These guys are doing an awesome job at bringing back long dead games and making them usable!

 

There's a guy on YouTube who posted video of the difference between running a stock 8Mhz 68000 and a 16Mhz 68000 when playing Gauntlet, but I was under the impression that most upgrades - like with TOS upgrades - tends to bring out incompatibility issues with the various games...

 

Yes, some games, even without being recoded, will benefit from an upgraded machine. I think the 3D type games definitely do.

 

HTHs.

[+DarkLord]

Well, using Frank's translation below, I've now got compatibility mode working

on my PAK. I've got the A version, and apparently my board already has the

"switch-over-GAL P3", so all I had to do was put a 68000 CPU in the U7 socket

on the PAK board, and connect a switch to J5.

 

Now I can power off in PAK mode, flip the switch, and it boots back up using

the original TOS 1.04 from the STacy!

 

I'm really starting to be a big fan of this board. German engineering, FTW!

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Translation by Frank Themann>

 

The translation is:

 

4.5 PAK and 68000 in alternating operation mode

 

For compatibility, it is possible to operate either an existing PAK and a

68000 cpu in alternating operation mode.

The switch-over cannot be performed during operation, though a cold-start is

neccessary to erase the invalid system variables.

Mode switching is done by jumper J5 which can be connected to a switch via a

short-kept cable.

 

To operate in compatibility mode (the german text says "emergency mode"), a

68000 has to be inserted to the cpu socket (U7).

Furthermore, J6, which is the jumper for the PAK-only-mode, has to be left

open.

At last, the (circuit-board version dependend) switch-over-GAL P3 has to be

inserted.

 

Owner of the new A-layout board have to use version P3-PUK-A which can be

soldered to the board directly since the GAL program will probably not be

changed.

Now the modifications are done.

 

Owners of older PAK-layout boards have to use version P3-PUK, and they have

to rewire the board as follows:

 

1. /BG_68K pin 11 U7 to pin 9 PUK-GAL

2. /BR_68K pin 13 U7 to pin 13 PUK-GAL

3. E_68K pin 2O U7 to pin 6 PUK-GAL

4. /BG_PAK pin 11 CON2 to pin 12 PUK-GAL

5. /BR_PAK pin 13 CON2 to pin 8 PUK-GAL

6. E_PAK pin 2O CON2 to pin 15 PUK-GAL

7. /PAK_EN pin 2 J5 to pin 2 PUK-GAL

8. /BR_2O pin 1 J6 to pin 19 PUK-GAL

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thanks for that translation Frank - great job!

[+DarkLord]

Just an update on this project:

 

PAK board now has the clockbuffer/patch installed, 50mhz 68882 FPU, and I've

got both 40mhz and 50mhz 680030's.

 

So far, I've been able to run the PAK board in my STacy at up to 40mhz. I'm

working on getting the latest GAL revisions in place, as well as seeing if I

can get 80ns memory in the STacy's memory board. I need that, if I'm going

to get it to run correctly at 50mhz. I'm a bit worried about heat - the 030 chip

gets fairly hot after 2-3 hours usage. I'm looking at fans, heatsinks, etc, but

as always with the STacy, you're fighting space and available power.

 

Here is a screenshot of Gembench at 40mhz, with the FPU in place:

 

[Fox-1 / mnx]

I'm looking at fans, heatsinks, etc, but as always with the STacy, you're fighting space and available power.

 

I wouldn't worry about the power for such a small fan. The available space is a different issue :-)

[+DarkLord]

 

I wouldn't worry about the power for such a small fan. The available space is a different issue :-)

 

Right, space is like, in my face at every turn on this project <rolls eyes>

 

Can't help but worry about the power too though. I've got a new internal power supply board in my

STacy, but still....minus's are that the STacy's internal P/S board is notoriously weak, we're powering

a powerful accelerator board + a new screen/inverter, etc,...

 

Plus is that the very voltage hungry original 20meg hard drive is gone, replaced by the Ultrasatan and

SDcards, which should use much less.

 

Probably just have to find something small with low reqs and try it. OR maybe do as Jo Even suggested

and add a mini Pico PS.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Right, space is like, in my face at every turn on this project <rolls eyes>

 

You know what they say: bigger is better :-)

 

For a bit of cooling you can put a small heat sink on the CPU and place a small fan to blow sideways over the CPU. It's not that the fan has to be straight on top of the CPU. As long as it gets some airflow it'll help.

 

OR maybe do as Jo Even suggested and add a mini Pico PS.

 

I'd go for a replacement PS. Those modern ones are able to deliver more power, run cooler and all at a smaller foot print which will free up a little bit of space.

[+DarkLord]

Been awhile since I posted anything to this thread, apologies. Lots of stuff still going on. I did manage to get a full 4 meg

RAM board from Best Electronics that has all 80ns chips on it. Also gave up on the Genius 540 programmer and got a

Batronix BX32. It's German, solid, nice, even has software for my Linux box. I used it to program my new, faster TOS

ROM chips with the modified TOS v3.06 version by Holger Zimmerman. Worked first try, no muss no fuss no errors.

 

Summing up, all the user replaceable chips on the PAK board are now at or better than the speed ratings recommended

in the docs. I've got 50mhz versions of both the 68882 and the 68030 in place.

 

Everything has helped, I can now reliably run at 40mhz with no crashes, even after running for hours on end.

 

However, I still can't run *reliably* at 50mhz. I can run at 50mhz, it's just that some apps/software have problems that

I don't see at 40mhz. For example, some of the modified games by Dbug and Klaz won't even start at 50mhz, but are

fine at 40mhz. Also, at 50mhz, none of the benchmark programs that use the 68882 work - they crash out to the desktop

with multiple bombs. They work perfectly at 40mhz.

 

Alan H. over at AtariForum has a PAK board too (well, he's actually got 2, plus an earlier version of the PAK, the dog! )

His will run at 50mhz, but I'm not sure how much testing he's done on stability yet, but so far it seems more stable than

my setup. Alan is working on doing some amazing things for the STacy. He's already got a replacement RAM board that

uses a SIMM instead. He's also planning on using the PICO for a power supply replacement, TOS board replacement,

and eventually he hopes to fit in a replacement screen that will do the ST's color resolutions. Alan is the guy who made

the internal ACSI replacement cable for the Mega STe and STacy, so we could use an Ultrasatan internally. I'm hoping

he'll make everything available to the public as he finishes them.

 

Here is a picture of his SIMM board:

 

 

 

I'll talk about the 1.44 meg floppy upgrade that is now working in the next post.

[+DarkLord]

Okay, to refresh everyone's memory's, I had installed Ralcool's (Sean) HD floppy mod in my STacy before I got a PAK board.

The mod worked fine with the stock STacy, even worked fine with the Fast Technology T25 accelerator I had in my STacy

for awhile. However, when I added the PAK board, strange things started happening. It would crash any time the floppy was

accessed, and approx. 20 mins after bootup, consistently. I'm talking a hard, multi-bomb, clear across the screen, total

lockup crash. Turns out, the mod was causing havoc with the clock signals 'n stuff the PAK was using, which it is apparently

very sensitive about.

 

So Sean and Holger Zimmerman (one of the original designers of the PAK, the PupLa board, and the FRAK boards) took

a look at it and came up with a 2nd version that relies on its own clock instead of using the ST's so much. Note that

some ideas/inspiration came from Exxos's (Chris) HD mod design as well, just to give credit where credit is due.

 

Anyway, I got the new version in the mail a couple of days ago and installed it, and it works now. Here are some pics

showing what we did.

 

Here is the PCB board for the mod - the WD1772 sits in the socket on top, then it all plugs into the WD1772's old socket

on the STacy's motherboard:

 

First difficulty I ran into - there wasn't enough room to clear the Ultrasatan where I had it mounted in the STacy's drive

cage, where the original hard drive used to be. So I had to cut out a small section of the case to make room:

 

 

Here is the board, with the WD1772 plugged in:

 

This pictures shows the drive cage setting back in place, and just why I had to modify the US's case:

 

Here, everything is plugged back in, ready to go. Space really is that tight!

 

And finally, booted up, at the TOS v3.06 desktop, running at 40mhz, and I have a working 1.44 meg floppy!

 

I can't say thanks enough to everyone involved in getting this to work. Sean, Holger, Chris (and anyone I might

have inadvertently left out) have all gone that extra mile and then some. Thanks guys!

[+DarkLord]

Painting has begun, Krylon Glossy black, FTW!

 

 

 

took over this area, for reconstruction and "elbow room":

 

 

PS The pink, polka-dotted bed sheets were *not* my idea!

[svenski]

Pink and black could be the next new thing So jealous of you right now !

[+DarkLord]

Heh, just wait until Alan H. over at AtariForum gets his STacy done - that

will truly be one impressive machine! I can't wait to see what all he does

with his, so I can (hopefully) bring some of it into mine.

 

PS Psssst! Don't tell anyone but only the outside of my STacy is black,

the inside *is* pink!

[+DarkLord]

Really close to putting the whole thing back together now.

 

Here is the bottom half, with labels so everyone can see

what's been done to it (so far):

 

 

It's all coming together, just a few more small details

before I reassemble it.

[+wood_jl]

Good grief! That has to be the most-modded STacy in the world. How excellent! Pics of it working, when done, please!

 

 

A separate question:

Would it be possible to add a color LCD to a STacy? I know this would NOT be easy, and I'm wondering if it's possible. Anything's theoretically "possible;" but I mean, it's probably not practical, eh? Has anybody ever tried this? Are LCD screens even manufactured that would take ST-type RGB signals?

[+DarkLord]

Good grief! That has to be the most-modded STacy in the world. How excellent! Pics of it working, when done, please!

 

 

A separate question:

Would it be possible to add a color LCD to a STacy? I know this would NOT be easy, and I'm wondering if it's possible. Anything's theoretically "possible;" but I mean, it's probably not practical, eh? Has anybody ever tried this? Are LCD screens even manufactured that would take ST-type RGB signals?

 

When I do get it all reassembled, I'll post complete pics (assuming it doesn't meltdown and take out half

the neighborhood with it).

 

As far as the most modded, nope...its going to be maybe 2nd.... Alan H. over at AtariForums has a STacy

that's going to surpass mine. Alan is very good, engineering wise. He's the one who designed the internal

power supply/ACSI cable for using an Ultrasatan internally with a Mega STe or STacy. Alan has a PAK board

for his STacy as well, and he's got his running at 50mhz. He's working right now on replacing that huge RAM

/TOS board with smaller boards that take up less space. After that, he's going to add the FRAK and PuPLa/2

boards to the PAK. That will give his STacy something like 64 megs of Fast RAM!.

 

Now to your last question...Alan has stated that further along he plans on trying to add a color display to the

STacy. So we can hold our breath, cross our fingers, and hope he succeeds. I'm perfectly happy at this

point in drawing off his innovations for use in my STacy. Alan's a great guy to boot.

 

Hope that helps some. It's a good time to be a STacy owner.

[jens]

In theory a STacy is a Mega ST which could use Mega BUS upgrades.

There are graphics cards for that bus, so it is theoretically possible to attach a graphics card.

With a Matrix C32 1280x960 in 8bit would be possible.

Only drawback is that the card would not fit into the original STacy case, so the machine would have to be put into a bigger suitcase.

[+DarkLord]

Jens, I know you read this thread before:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/191337-another-stacy-oddity/

 

It would be amazing if a VME header could actually be used with

those STacy models and a VME graphics card added. I know, not

likely, but if it did!

 

You're right about the space though, look at some of the pictures of

the VME graphics cards for the Mega STe, then look at the inside of

a STacy. Sure doesn't look very promising.

[jens]

The only possibility I personally see is an upgrade in VHDL, as PAK (at least with 020) / FRaK and Panther would be too big for the original case.

With Panther you'd have the graphics thing sorted.

Then plug an EtherneA to the internal DMA port, maybe together with an ACSI2SCSI converter giving access to a SCSI SC card reader... *dreams_away*

[+DarkLord]

Right, its looking like an "either or" kind of situation. You can have a PAK, even the FRAK

and PuPLa/2, IF you do considerable modding to the interior,

 

OR

 

you could have a graphics card setup...

 

but not both...at least not at this time with the current options.