23 replies to this topic

[stephena]

I need someone to test beta releases for what will become the next version of Stella. However, I have some pretty strict requirements. Currently, I need someone who uses Windows, has an ATI video card, and has valid OpenGL drivers installed. There's a bug in Stella right now for such a setup, whereby sound stops working after loading the first game. I think I have this fixed, but I don't have a system to test it on.

Any help is greatly appreciated, and of course will help you as well (or at least those using ATI video cards).

[goldenegg]

Is this for old ATI branded cards only or current AMD branded cards as well?

I have a 2011 Macbook Pro with Win7 64-bit installed via Bootcamp. The system has a AMD 6750M. If this config is good for you, I'd be happy to try it this week.

[stephena]

goldenegg, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:52 PM, said:

Is this for old ATI branded cards only or current AMD branded cards as well?

I have a 2011 Macbook Pro with Win7 64-bit installed via Bootcamp. The system has a AMD 6750M. If this config is good for you, I'd be happy to try it this week.

I don't know what 'old' is when it comes to ATI cards, as I'm strictly an Nvidia guy. The last time I tested it was on a Radeon HD3450, and it showed the error in that case.

I don't have the test binary quite ready yet, but if you like you can download Stella 3.4.1 and test it. Make sure to use OpenGL mode, open the app and start a game. The sound should work fine. Exit the game (but not the emulator itself) by going back to the ROM launcher, and start a different game. Sound will probably no longer work. If this happens for you, then your system is a good test case. And I'll send you a test binary to see if I've fixed the issue.

[SeaGtGruff]

I'm using Windows XP, an ATI Radeon card, and OpenGL with Stella 3.4.1, but I don't get the sound problem. On the other hand, Stella takes a long time to start up. It starts quickly if I run a compiled program in Stella from Crimson Editor, but if I hit ESC to stop the program and go to the menu, it takes a long time to pop up the menu (the list of games). I figure it's taking a long time to load the list of games, but it didn't take nearly as long with earlier versions.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:46 PM, said:

I'm using Windows XP, an ATI Radeon card, and OpenGL with Stella 3.4.1, but I don't get the sound problem. On the other hand, Stella takes a long time to start up. It starts quickly if I run a compiled program in Stella from Crimson Editor, but if I hit ESC to stop the program and go to the menu, it takes a long time to pop up the menu (the list of games). I figure it's taking a long time to load the list of games, but it didn't take nearly as long with earlier versions.

To be clear, you're saying that going back to the menu takes a long time, but once there you can start another game and the sound is working? Because if so, that's weird.

As for the slow loading, how many games do you have? Can you try temporarily setting your game directory to one containing a small number of ROMs (say 10 or less) and see if the delay is still present? Basically, I need to determine if the delay is because of the number of ROMs, or simply going back to the ROM launcher. And if it's the latter, it could still be related to sound stuff.

In any event, I'm going to post a test build soon.

[goldenegg]

stephena, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:25 PM, said:

goldenegg, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:52 PM, said:

Is this for old ATI branded cards only or current AMD branded cards as well?

I have a 2011 Macbook Pro with Win7 64-bit installed via Bootcamp. The system has a AMD 6750M. If this config is good for you, I'd be happy to try it this week.

I don't know what 'old' is when it comes to ATI cards, as I'm strictly an Nvidia guy. The last time I tested it was on a Radeon HD3450, and it showed the error in that case.

I don't have the test binary quite ready yet, but if you like you can download Stella 3.4.1 and test it. Make sure to use OpenGL mode, open the app and start a game. The sound should work fine. Exit the game (but not the emulator itself) by going back to the ROM launcher, and start a different game. Sound will probably no longer work. If this happens for you, then your system is a good test case. And I'll send you a test binary to see if I've fixed the issue.

I'll test 3.4.1 on my system at lunch and report back.

[goldenegg]

I just tested 3.4.1 and can't reproduce the audio problem. I tried with both software and OpenGL, with both windowed and full screen settings.

I don't have any slow loading problem, as described by SeaGtGruff. My ROM directory has 1,028 files. The menu displays pretty much instantly.

[Aegis]

Windows 7 x64, ATI 5870 and the 12.1 preview drivers here

stephena, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:42 PM, said:

I need someone to test beta releases for what will become the next version of Stella. However, I have some pretty strict requirements. Currently, I need someone who uses Windows, has an ATI video card, and has valid OpenGL drivers installed. There's a bug in Stella right now for such a setup, whereby sound stops working after loading the first game. I think I have this fixed, but I don't have a system to test it on.

Any help is greatly appreciated, and of course will help you as well (or at least those using ATI video cards).

[stephena]

OK, for everyone with the required hardware: could you please test Stella 3.4.1 first, to see if you're experiencing the problems mentioned above? If you are, then your system is the ideal candidate for testing. But even if you aren't experiencing the problem, you can still help with testing the new build, to show that the changes I've made don't make things any worse (in other words, there isn't a regression).

I'll post the test build in a few hours. And thanks for the feedback.

[stephena]

OK, here's the test build for Windows 32 & 64-bit: http://minbar.org/St...st4-windows.zip

A few notes:

• joystick remapping has been changed from 3.4.1, so you'll lose any custom mappings when you go back to using version 3.4.1
  
• please test in both software and OpenGL modes
  
• start a game, see if it has sound, then exit the game, going back to the launcher, and start another one
  
• if everything is working fine, then great, otherwise please specify in detail any bugs you notice
  
• if you encounter problems, after testing go into Options -> System Logs and click 'Save log to disk'; it will create file stella.log in your home directory, which you can then forward to me

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:46 PM, said:

I'm using Windows XP, an ATI Radeon card, and OpenGL with Stella 3.4.1, but I don't get the sound problem. On the other hand, Stella takes a long time to start up. It starts quickly if I run a compiled program in Stella from Crimson Editor, but if I hit ESC to stop the program and go to the menu, it takes a long time to pop up the menu (the list of games). I figure it's taking a long time to load the list of games, but it didn't take nearly as long with earlier versions.

Can you try disabling sound and test this again with 3.4.1? To disable sound, go to Options -> Audio Settings. If this speeds up the listing, then I definitely know it's sound related. And if it doesn't, I can concentrate on some other area to find the bug.

[SeaGtGruff]

stephena, on Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 AM, said:

SeaGtGruff, on Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:46 PM, said:

I'm using Windows XP, an ATI Radeon card, and OpenGL with Stella 3.4.1, but I don't get the sound problem. On the other hand, Stella takes a long time to start up. It starts quickly if I run a compiled program in Stella from Crimson Editor, but if I hit ESC to stop the program and go to the menu, it takes a long time to pop up the menu (the list of games). I figure it's taking a long time to load the list of games, but it didn't take nearly as long with earlier versions.

Can you try disabling sound and test this again with 3.4.1? To disable sound, go to Options -> Audio Settings. If this speeds up the listing, then I definitely know it's sound related. And if it doesn't, I can concentrate on some other area to find the bug.

I haven't tried that yet, but I'm pretty sure it's related to loading the list of games. Yes, I do have a lot of ROMs in the directory, including ZIP files.

When I start a game directly from Crimson Editor after compiling my code-- by including the ROM file name in Stella's command line-- it starts instantly. It's only when I start Stella without specifying a ROM-- so it starts up at the list of games-- that it takes so long to display the list. And whenever I exit a game and go back to the list of games, it takes a long time before it displays the list.

I think 3.4.1 was the first version with this problem for me, but I haven't tried going back to any of the earlier versions to see if they're doing it now, too. I have literally dozens of versions of Stella installed on my computer, so I'll try the earlier ones and see, as well as trying the disable sound suggestion in 3.4.1.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:50 PM, said:

I haven't tried that yet, but I'm pretty sure it's related to loading the list of games. Yes, I do have a lot of ROMs in the directory, including ZIP files.

When I start a game directly from Crimson Editor after compiling my code-- by including the ROM file name in Stella's command line-- it starts instantly. It's only when I start Stella without specifying a ROM-- so it starts up at the list of games-- that it takes so long to display the list. And whenever I exit a game and go back to the list of games, it takes a long time before it displays the list.

I think 3.4.1 was the first version with this problem for me, but I haven't tried going back to any of the earlier versions to see if they're doing it now, too. I have literally dozens of versions of Stella installed on my computer, so I'll try the earlier ones and see, as well as trying the disable sound suggestion in 3.4.1.

Tracking down exactly where this started would be a huge help. As you know, probably 95% of the work in fixing a bug is actually finding it.

[SeaGtGruff]

Version 3.4 works fine for me-- when I start it up, there's a tiny delay (less than half a second), then the list of games in my ROM directory pops up.

When I start version 3.4.1, the window pops up, but is completely black inside. The list of games finally pops up after about 16 seconds (I timed it). Both versions are using the exact same ROM directory.

I tried disabling the sound as you suggested, but it didn't make any difference. However, I did notice that if I start a game and then hit ESC to exit, it does display the list of games pretty quickly-- after less than a second. So it's only when it's *initially* loading the list of games that it takes 16 seconds. This is with the sound enabled or disabled, it makes no difference. I may have said previously that it always takes a long time to return to the list of games, but I was mistaken-- it only takes a long time to display the list of games after exiting a game if I've started Stella from Crimson Editor with a game specified in the command line, such that when I press ESC to stop the game, it *is* having to load the list of games for the first time when going back to the menu.

Edit: I just tried 3.5, and it also takes a while to display the list of games the first time, then returns to the list of games almost instantly when I press ESC to exit a game.

Edit #2: Just a thought, but did you change anything in the auto-detection between 3.4 and 3.4.1? I have several "custom" ROMs in my ROM folder-- meaning my own programs, or other people's homebrew ROMs or WIP games, which would not be pre-defined in a database of "known ROMs." Does Stella try to auto-detect the bankswitching type for "unknown" ROMs when it's loading the list of ROMs from the directory, or does it auto-detect the ROM type when a ROM is actually being started up?

Edited by SeaGtGruff, Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:44 PM.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:34 PM, said:

Version 3.4 works fine for me-- when I start it up, there's a tiny delay (less than half a second), then the list of games in my ROM directory pops up.

When I start version 3.4.1, the window pops up, but is completely black inside. The list of games finally pops up after about 16 seconds (I timed it). Both versions are using the exact same ROM directory.

I tried disabling the sound as you suggested, but it didn't make any difference. However, I did notice that if I start a game and then hit ESC to exit, it does display the list of games pretty quickly-- after less than a second. So it's only when it's *initially* loading the list of games that it takes 16 seconds. This is with the sound enabled or disabled, it makes no difference. I may have said previously that it always takes a long time to return to the list of games, but I was mistaken-- it only takes a long time to display the list of games after exiting a game if I've started Stella from Crimson Editor with a game specified in the command line, such that when I press ESC to stop the game, it *is* having to load the list of games for the first time when going back to the menu.

Edit: I just tried 3.5, and it also takes a while to display the list of games the first time, then returns to the list of games almost instantly when I press ESC to exit a game.

OK, thanks for the feedback. This helps to narrow it down, since we know 2 things: one, something happened between 3.4 and 3.4.1, and two, it only happens on the first load. Actually, saying the first load is the wrong word, since the first time it loads is the only time. Every other time after that, Stella is simply using cached data.

Please try the following:

• Start Stella, which show show the delay
  
• Play a game
  
• Exit back to the ROM launcher, which should be quick
  
• At the ROM launcher, reload the list (press Control-r) and let me know if it's fast or slow

Finally, would you say the delay is roughly the same for 3.4.1 and 3.5??

Thanks for the feedback.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:34 PM, said:

Edit #2: Just a thought, but did you change anything in the auto-detection between 3.4 and 3.4.1? I have several "custom" ROMs in my ROM folder-- meaning my own programs, or other people's homebrew ROMs or WIP games, which would not be pre-defined in a database of "known ROMs." Does Stella try to auto-detect the bankswitching type for "unknown" ROMs when it's loading the list of ROMs from the directory, or does it auto-detect the ROM type when a ROM is actually being started up?

Good suggestion, but Stella doesn't work that way (or at least it doesn't anymore). What you see in the ROM listing is simply the filenames as they exist on your hard drive. The ROMs themselves aren't being loaded, autodetected, etc. Stella is simply getting a directory listing and showing that. So it really shouldn't take very long.

Can you try my original suggestion too. Specifically, point Stella to a directory containing only a few ROMs and see if there's still a huge delay. If there is, it isn't related to the ROMs at all. Finally, just to be clear, you don't notice any delay at all when starting loading a ROM directly (from your editor)??

[SeaGtGruff]

I created another ROMs directory containing only two ROMs, and Stella 3.4.1 started up very quickly, so it does seem to be related to either (1) the number of ROMs in my directory, or (2) the type of files in my directory. That is, my main ROMs directory contains several ZIP files, as well as several ROMs with more "exotic" cartridge formats (i.e., all the various bankswitching schemes, including newer ones like 4A50, DPC+, etc.), whereas my "little" test directory has two standard (non-bankswitched) ROMs.

That is correct, there is no delay when I start Stella with a ROM specified in the command line-- the delay only occurs when I start Stella without a ROM specified, or when returning to the menu (list of games) after having started Stella with a ROM specified.

If I change directories while Stella is running, the delay recurs when switching back to my main ROMs directory.

The delay is the same with 3.4.1 and 3.5-- about 16 seconds to load/display a list of 1678 items. But with 3.4 there is virtually no delay to load/display 1678 items.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:36 PM, said:

If I change directories while Stella is running, the delay recurs when switching back to my main ROMs directory.

The delay is the same with 3.4.1 and 3.5-- about 16 seconds to load/display a list of 1678 items. But with 3.4 there is virtually no delay to load/display 1678 items.

So it really does seem to be related to the number of files. The delay you're getting within the launcher when changing directories is because the disk is being accessed.

I just looked over the code differences between 3.4 and 3.4.1, and the only thing I can see that might cause an issue is a difference in how file 'nodes' are created. Obviously something is quite a bit slower in 3.4.1, but I notice no difference on any system I've tested. Are you willing to test more builds until this problem is narrowed down further??

[SeaGtGruff]

stephena, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:50 PM, said:

Are you willing to test more builds until this problem is narrowed down further??

Certainly!

Edit: It really hasn't been a big problem for me. The first time it happened, I thought maybe Stella had crashed or locked up, but after it happened a few times I figured out it was just slow in loading the ROMs directory listing, so I just waited for it to come up. The weird thing is that no one else mentioned it (so I take it the problem is peculiar to my setup/computer/whatever), and that it doesn't occur in Stella 3.4 and earlier versions.

Edit 2: By the way, I don't "install" Stella with the installer, I just unzip each new version into a new folder. I mention this just in case it might be relevant, such as if some registry setting related to Stella didn't get added/updated, or something like that.

Edited by SeaGtGruff, Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:05 PM.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:56 PM, said:

stephena, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:50 PM, said:

Are you willing to test more builds until this problem is narrowed down further??

Certainly!

Edit: It really hasn't been a big problem for me. The first time it happened, I thought maybe Stella had crashed or locked up, but after it happened a few times I figured out it was just slow in loading the ROMs directory listing, so I just waited for it to come up. The weird thing is that no one else mentioned it (so I take it the problem is peculiar to my setup/computer/whatever), and that it doesn't occur in Stella 3.4 and earlier versions.

Edit 2: By the way, I don't "install" Stella with the installer, I just unzip each new version into a new folder. I mention this just in case it might be relevant, such as if some registry setting related to Stella didn't get added/updated, or something like that.

OK, I'll post a new build sometime this evening, when I find some time to analyse what's going on.

As for unzipping, that isn't a problem since Stella doesn't use the Windows registry. Aside from its config file (stored in %APPDATA%/Stella), it's very standalone.

[stephena]

SeaGtGruff, on Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:36 PM, said:

The delay is the same with 3.4.1 and 3.5-- about 16 seconds to load/display a list of 1678 items. But with 3.4 there is virtually no delay to load/display 1678 items.

I can duplicate this on a WinXP test machine I just put together, and also in a WinXP VM on my development system. Now that I can actually see it happening, I'm confident I can fix it. I'll forward a test build later this evening or tomorrow.

EDIT: The test binary link above now points to a version which (I believe) fixes this issue.

[SeaGtGruff]

stephena, on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:02 AM, said:

EDIT: The test binary link above now points to a version which (I believe) fixes this issue.

Yes, that fixed it! Party time!

[zagon]

I'm sorry to revive this thread now that Stella 3.5 has been released but as I am one of the users that are affected by the ATI/opengl/no sound bug I would like to report on my findings:

First, can confirm that the bug is fixed in version 3.5 of stella.

However, I expected to be able to repeat the bug in version 3.4.1 but I was unable to do so. I had to go all the way back to version 3.0 before I could repeat it.

As it happens, Stella version 3.0 is the last version of Stella to use SDL.dll v1.2.13. Stella version 3.1 and later all use SDL.dll v1.2.14.

As an experiment, I replaced the bundled v1.2.14 SDL.dll with the older v1.2.13 in the newer Stella releases. This made the bug reappear in all Stella versions up to and including version 3.4.1.

It really looks like the cause of the whole problem was a bug in SDL that got fixed in v1.2.14.

[stephena]

zagon, on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:52 AM, said:

I'm sorry to revive this thread now that Stella 3.5 has been released but as I am one of the users that are affected by the ATI/opengl/no sound bug I would like to report on my findings:

First, can confirm that the bug is fixed in version 3.5 of stella.

However, I expected to be able to repeat the bug in version 3.4.1 but I was unable to do so. I had to go all the way back to version 3.0 before I could repeat it.

As it happens, Stella version 3.0 is the last version of Stella to use SDL.dll v1.2.13. Stella version 3.1 and later all use SDL.dll v1.2.14.

As an experiment, I replaced the bundled v1.2.14 SDL.dll with the older v1.2.13 in the newer Stella releases. This made the bug reappear in all Stella versions up to and including version 3.4.1.

It really looks like the cause of the whole problem was a bug in SDL that got fixed in v1.2.14.

Arrgh, where were you a month ago Seriously though, I always suspected it was an SDL bug, since I was using the API exactly as it was defined. And it didn't happen in Linux or OSX, or in other cases in Windows.

At this point I'm inclined to just leave the new code as-is. The only drawback compared to the old code is that you need to restart Stella when you change the fragment size. But since most people only do that once or twice (or not at all), it's not too bad of a tradeoff. Of course, if I find issues with the new code, or I find the old way is faster, it's good to know I can go back (with the stipulation that SDL 1.2.14 is absolutely required).