46 replies to this topic

[BillyHW]

Austin, on Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:17 PM, said:

It shares many of the same elements, including firepower styles, and the way you can destroy ground objects. Both games were developed by Compile.

Interesting. I didn't realize. Wiki says they're also responsible for Choplifter.

Space Megaforce, the best SNES game nobody played.

[NinjaWarrior]

So Space Megaforce doesn't have anything to do with MUSHA??

[Sonic R]

NinjaWarrior, on Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:06 PM, said:

So Space Megaforce doesn't have anything to do with MUSHA??

the only real connection Space Megaforce has to MUSHA is they were developed by Compile…

Zanac, Power Strike, and Robo Aleste are some other shooters from Compile…

[bomberpunk]

Darius Gaiden, Gradius, Ikaruga, and R-Type are all i need in this category.

[Austin]

Sonic R, on Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:10 PM, said:

the only real connection Space Megaforce has to MUSHA is they were developed by Compile… Zanac, Power Strike, and Robo Aleste are some other shooters from Compile…

Also, despite some of their shmups being vastly different (for instance, MUSHA and Robo Aleste versus Power Strike or Super Aleste/Space Megaforce), certain elements tend to be consistent between titles, such as the power capsule canisters that you have to shoot in order to build up your stock weapon. Also, some music is reused as well (i.e., the title theme from the original Aleste is used in MUSHA).

[98PaceCar]

What is the single most impressive console shmup to own? System doesn't matter.

[thegoldenband]

BillyHW, on Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:24 PM, said:

Space Megaforce, the best SNES game nobody played.

I played it back in the day! Not a lot, since it was a rental IIRC, but I remember being impressed.

Space Megaforce, Axelay, and Star Fox were the only SNES shooters/shmups I remember playing BITD. Kind of interesting that I didn't notice the shift at the time, since I'd played so many on NES, e.g. Life Force, Zanac, Gradius, Legendary Wings, Section Z, Abadox, Dragon Spirit, and so on.

...huh, actually, I just realized I've never actually beaten a shmup on SNES. Funny, that.

[genesisguy]

I'm relatively new to shoot em ups. As a long time run and gun genre fan I thought moving to shoot em ups would be a nice transition.
I only have 4 consoles: NES, Genesis, SNES, and PS2. I'm liking the Genesis and the NES best and the SNES least. I only have Gradius III and Super R-Type on the SNES but the achilles heel that is the slow processor of the SNES really shows itself in those games.

[thegoldenband]

Yes, those two games (Gradius III and Super R-Type) have some of the worst slowdown I've ever seen on the SNES, and they're not very much fun besides! I almost wrote above that I felt sort of lucky that I didn't play those back in the day.

Space Megaforce is probably the best shmup I've played on the SNES, but another one I liked is Firepower 2000, also found on the Genesis as Mega SWIV (but it's region-locked to PAL). That one has a two-player simultaneous mode that's a lot of fun.

Still, fond though I am of the SNES, it's hard to deny that when it comes to shmups, the Genesis has it over the SNES bigtime.

[BillyHW]

thegoldenband, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:33 AM, said:

BillyHW, on Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:24 PM, said:

Space Megaforce, the best SNES game nobody played.

I played it back in the day! Not a lot, since it was a rental IIRC, but I remember being impressed.

Space Megaforce, Axelay, and Star Fox were the only SNES shooters/shmups I remember playing BITD. Kind of interesting that I didn't notice the shift at the time, since I'd played so many on NES, e.g. Life Force, Zanac, Gradius, Legendary Wings, Section Z, Abadox, Dragon Spirit, and so on.

...huh, actually, I just realized I've never actually beaten a shmup on SNES. Funny, that.

Yeah, I found it by accident at Blockbuster, took it home for a rental, not knowing what to expect. I was so impressed that it was even better than Axelay.

I was never a huge shooter person, but I did beat UN Squadron. (Beat Star Fox too, but that's not a 2D shooter, so I'm not counting it.)

[BillyHW]

genesisguy, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:53 AM, said:

I'm relatively new to shoot em ups. As a long time run and gun genre fan I thought moving to shoot em ups would be a nice transition.
I only have 4 consoles: NES, Genesis, SNES, and PS2. I'm liking the Genesis and the NES best and the SNES least. I only have Gradius III and Super R-Type on the SNES but the achilles heel that is the slow processor of the SNES really shows itself in those games.

Yes, Gradius III and Super R-Type have a ton of slowdown, but they were still good games. And I found the slowdown in Gradius III most helpful! The trouble was they were launch titles and the programmers didn't know the system yet. Later titles like Axelay and Space Megaforce didn't have slowdown.

Edited by BillyHW, Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:22 PM.

[genesisguy]

BillyHW, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:22 PM, said:

Yes, Gradius III and Super R-Type have a ton of slowdown, but they were still good games. And I found the slowdown in Gradius III most helpful! The trouble was they were launch titles and the programmers didn't know the system yet. Later titles like Axelay and Space Megaforce didn't have slowdown.

You're right Super R-Type and Gradius III are good games but they aren't putting the SNES as the top of any "best console for shmups" lists. Later SNES games were also plagued with slow down too. Try NHL 97 on the SNES and then the Genesis. The SNES version is lacking frames of animation to keep up with the Genesis speed! Slow down and the SNES go together like bread and butter.

I'll look closer at Axelay and Space Megaforce. I've got Axelay on my list of games to buy but the Mode 7 is a big turn off for me. Also just glancing over eBay they seem to be fairly expensive. Especially Space Megaforge.

I still have to cite the Genesis or NES as better Shmup console.

Edited by genesisguy, Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:59 PM.

[thegoldenband]

I don't really like Super R-Type and Gradius III at all. Actually, I liked the first parts of Gradius III despite the slowdown, but the game is practically ruined for me by what it does at the end of stage...4 or 5, I think? Fast, autoscrolling levels with forced dead ends that require memorization are a big pet peeve of mine.

Super R-Type, I just didn't think was very much fun at all. But in truth, I've never been that keen on the R-Type games; something about their mechanic seems geared to maximize frustration.

BTW, the game that's probably my favorite shmup on the Genesis isn't really a traditional one: Granada. Really fun game with great control and some interesting twists. I also like Wings of Wor, but Stage 5 (I think) has another one of my pet peeves: flashy backgrounds that get so distracting, they hurt my eyes and make it hard to track enemy shots.

[Austin]

98PaceCar, on Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:08 PM, said:

What is the single most impressive console shmup to own? System doesn't matter.

Radiant Silvergun on the Saturn (and now, XBOX Live Arcade). In my opinion anyway, of course.

[98PaceCar]

Austin, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:32 PM, said:

Radiant Silvergun on the Saturn (and now, XBOX Live Arcade). In my opinion anyway, of course.

That's actually the game that got me back into playing SHMUPS and started my nearly uncontrollable obsession with them! I only bought it because I had heard so much good stuff about how it played and I had to try it for myself. I wasn't disappointed!

My latest addition is Eliminate Down for the Mega Drive. I'm very impressed with how well it plays, even if I still can't get very far.

[Austin]

98PaceCar, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:16 PM, said:

My latest addition is Eliminate Down for the Mega Drive. I'm very impressed with how well it plays, even if I still can't get very far.

That's one I've meant to put some real time into. I recall trying it via emulation and it was quite impressive. Time to pull it up on the EverDrive!..

[BillyHW]

genesisguy, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:57 PM, said:

BillyHW, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:22 PM, said:

Yes, Gradius III and Super R-Type have a ton of slowdown, but they were still good games. And I found the slowdown in Gradius III most helpful! The trouble was they were launch titles and the programmers didn't know the system yet. Later titles like Axelay and Space Megaforce didn't have slowdown.

You're right Super R-Type and Gradius III are good games but they aren't putting the SNES as the top of any "best console for shmups" lists. Later SNES games were also plagued with slow down too. Try NHL 97 on the SNES and then the Genesis. The SNES version is lacking frames of animation to keep up with the Genesis speed! Slow down and the SNES go together like bread and butter.

I'll look closer at Axelay and Space Megaforce. I've got Axelay on my list of games to buy but the Mode 7 is a big turn off for me. Also just glancing over eBay they seem to be fairly expensive. Especially Space Megaforge.

I still have to cite the Genesis or NES as better Shmup console.

Now you're just being a hater. Mode 7 is awesome! Way better than Blast Processing.

EA always put their best people on the Sega sports games. Just like Capcom had their best people working on SNES. So games like NHL were always better on Genesis and, well, you know how SFII turned out.

NHL '94 on Genesis is the only hockey game anybody should be playing anyways.

SHMUPS? Does anyone remember when we just called them shooters?

[genesisguy]

BillyHW, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:51 PM, said:

Now you're just being a hater. Mode 7 is awesome! Way better than Blast Processing.

EA always put their best people on the Sega sports games. Just like Capcom had their best people working on SNES. So games like NHL were always better on Genesis and, well, you know how SFII turned out.

NHL '94 on Genesis is the only hockey game anybody should be playing anyways.

SHMUPS? Does anyone remember when we just called them shooters?

I'm not a hater. I have a SNES too!

NHL '94 runs smoother on the Genesis. The character animations are missing frames in that year's SNES release as well. That had nothing to do with better programmers working on the specific title, but more to do with the limitations of the hardware.

Blast Processing was a marketing gimmick...a stupid one. Mode 7 was/is a real, now terribly dated looking graphical effect! Yuk! No thanks.

SFII SCE on the Genesis is essentially the same game as SFII Turbo. Arguably with the 6 Button Genesis controller you get a better gaming experience. How fun is SF2 with shoulder buttons and the SNES d-pad! I own both titles but usually grab the Genesis version just because I don't have to mess with that controller.

I remember when we called Contra style run and gun games "shooters" as well.

Edited by genesisguy, Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:27 PM.

[Sonic R]

BillyHW, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:51 PM, said:

SHMUPS? Does anyone remember when we just called them shooters?

I still, and will always refer to my favorite genre of video games as, shooters! all the better if it causes confusion to these modern games players who think a fps aka walk around and shoot sh*t is a 'shooter'

[Sonic R]

all this talk about SNES shooters, and not one mention of BioMetal
one of the finest on SNES (despite the soundtrack) it's an amazing SNES exclusive and criminally overlooked…

[The Usotsuki]

Well, the Genesis *did* have a 32-bit CPU that ran twice as fast as the 16-bit CPU of the SNES. But with video hardware, arguably with sound hardware, the SNES crushed it. That said, with games, you really did have to have both to fully experience the era.

Woulda loved to see more games on both systems though, and I bet the Sonic games COULD work on SNES in theory.

[The Usotsuki]

Ah, to me a "shmup" is a SPACE shooter of the lines of Galaga or Gradius, and not of the run-and-gun type like Contra.