53 replies to this topic

[goatdan]

CyranoJ, on Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:38 PM, said:

goatdan, on Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:04 PM, said:

Having said that, I don't know of too many collectors who buy really rare games with the expectation of their gameplay living up to the hype. Does Air Raid have enough gameplay for the 2600 to be worth $3000?

That is a bit of an unfair comparison, because in the case of Air Raid you are not purchasing a reproduction. Is a photo of the Mona Lisa worth the same as the original?

Um, as Willard said way up at the top of the page:

"so the initial release will not be reproductions - they will be actual cartridges that were manufactured at Carousel Int'l."

So, um, we aren't planning as of right now on reproducing these. We're planning on selling the remaining stock. That we paid actual money to obtain, as well as the rights for the games. Rights which we now legally own.

So what does this argument have to do with anything?

Hey, look -- I know that you're all for "free love" and whatnot and dumping everything and sharing it, but we're working on making a unique release at a definite monetary risk to ourselves, and I am quite certain that we will be including things that would not be released if it was not for us doing legwork to get the material and paying money to make it happen. You think it's stupid to have to pay money for something like this. So why are you posting about it? Go ahead and make new games, or buy prototypes yourself that you can dump for free and let the world share, or whatever, and don't buy this. It's not for you.

I'd rather have the history preserved -- both legally, and more history that we would have *ever* got to see otherwise. I believe that a number of Jaguar fans will feel the same way, and will be happy to participate in purchasing this when the time comes.

[Shamus]

Look, I can appreciate the fact that lot of time and money has been put into this project but I'm really having a hard time seeing where the excitement for this comes from. To me, it's like owning a piece off of one of those toy horses that were put out in front of supermarkets for the sole purpose of nicking quarters from exasperated parents.

And the unabashed hawking of this stuff looks like some person went out and acquired the legal rights to a few palettes worth of miscellaneous junk, and then went out and tried to sell the stuff therein as if it were something of intrinsic and obvious value. The person, being too invested in it, couldn't see it for what it was: a pile of junk that nobody in their right mind would want.

Even looking at it from the "owning a piece of history" angle, it looks like the only thing original in the package is going to be the carts themselves--everything else is being made from whole cloth. For anyone who is curious as to what's actually in that "piece of history", here are a couple of YouTube videos demonstrating "game play":





At least in Skycopter II you get to fire missiles at jumbo jets.

[Willard]

there are some pretty strongly written posts here, who would have ever thought that Speedster II and Skycopter II would be a point of such contention

We are not asking that everybody see this release as desirable, or that there be a concensus on any release or reason for buying retro games for that matter. It is nice to get the opinions of the team at reboot and a few others, we do participate in the forums to share our thoughts on Atari stuff, we also reveal information regarding our upcoming releases for others to comment on (for better or worse!).

We do appreciate the opportunity to make these two obscure official atari releases available at a (much) more affordable cost than previously offered, and whatever additional material be included will be revealed when we announce the release. That doesn't mean that other people have to appreciate these releases, it is being made available for the people that do and those who might've spend $150+ trying to nab a copy off of ebay in the future - whether they are just completionists who need to have every last official Jaguar release or people who find some aspect of them interesting.

Edited by Willard, Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:40 AM.

[goatdan]

Shamus, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:34 AM, said:

Look, I can appreciate the fact that lot of time and money has been put into this project but I'm really having a hard time seeing where the excitement for this comes from. To me, it's like owning a piece off of one of those toy horses that were put out in front of supermarkets for the sole purpose of nicking quarters from exasperated parents.

I own pieces (and full machines) of about 40 arcade machines that were just put in front of supermarkets or in arcades for the sole purpose of nicking quarters from exasperated parents and kids. I find coin operated machinery fascinating. Hell, I have a buddy in town who owns well over 300 machines -- come to the Midwest Gaming Classic, and you can play them. I bet that at least a couple of his games, you would think aren't worth owning, but he likes having them all.

Quote

And the unabashed hawking of this stuff looks like some person went out and acquired the legal rights to a few palettes worth of miscellaneous junk, and then went out and tried to sell the stuff therein as if it were something of intrinsic and obvious value. The person, being too invested in it, couldn't see it for what it was: a pile of junk that nobody in their right mind would want.

Where is the unabashed hawking of this stuff? I've sold off some of the development materials we got with the package before, and we represented them as exactly what they are. As for the games, enough people have wanted them in the past to keep their value at $200+ for a cartridge, so someone out there has been interested in them. But seriously -- unabashed hawking? Of a product that we haven't really said anything about other than we'll be selling the original carts, and that we'll reveal more at some point in the future?

Quote

Even looking at it from the "owning a piece of history" angle, it looks like the only thing original in the package is going to be the carts themselves--everything else is being made from whole cloth. For anyone who is curious as to what's actually in that "piece of history", here are a couple of YouTube videos demonstrating "game play":

Since you apparently know what is in the package, and that we just made up everything in it, can you tell me about what it contains that we just randomly created to include in the package? And, while you're at it, could you tell me the price point? I guess with all my "unabashed hawking", I completely missed where we discussed exactly what is in these.

Again, I love coin operated stuff. I love the Jaguar. To me, even if it is just the cart, it was interesting enough for me to obtain one some years ago and hold onto it. A bunch of other collectors must have similar interest, or the carts wouldn't have sold for $200+ pretty much every time they were on eBay. I also know, because I know what is in them, that had I not been interested before, what I believe will be in the final package interests me even further. If it isn't worth $20 to you, don't get it.

I own a bunch of random stuff that I find to be historically interesting but of little other value. I own the original production invoices for Galaxian, weird stuff like an invoice that says that they are ordering 10,000 screws for the cabinet and the screws will cost $0.014 apiece, so they will be $140 for these screws. I think that is really cool stuff. I every once in a while go through it just to see how much things cost when they were creating one of my favorite arcade games of all time.

Do these documents have "great gameplay"? No. Have I ever sat down and read them like a book? Heck no. Did they cost me more than many good books that I have read? Yes. Do I care if you think I wasted my money on them or not? Heck no. They're for me. But, for you to go somewhere and be like, "Hey, you're all idiots for liking this stuff" doesn't make anyone change their opinions.

Pretending that you know mine or anyone else's interests before the product is even released is just weird. Why is it that you don't want to see these released so that people can purchase them if they so choose? And, do you really think that we can pretend to people like the games are going to hold up and be better than Tempest 2000? Really? Are you trying to "save people" that we're misleading by telling them that these games will be better than the latest PS3 release to play? Because if you are, I think you have much better things you could be doing with your time. I don't expect anyone to look at these or how we intend on selling them and think, "NEXT GREAT JAG GAME!"

Quote

At least in Skycopter II you get to fire missiles at jumbo jets.

Yeah, what the heck is up with that? Skycopter is the one that I own, and honestly when I first got it and messed around with it for a while, my response was, "Okay, I know these were made before September 11th, but why would you ever have a helicopter firing missiles at what are clearly passenger jets?" That's one of the weirdest things about that particular cart, and a story I'd love to know more about why that choice was made. I don't think we've got an answer for that either, at least not yet.

Pick something cooler, like a UFO or something.

[jhd]

How far along in development did these games/rides get before development ceased? Are there any photographs of the original (prototype or production) hardware?

Disclaimer: I don't have a Jaguar, and so I'm not a potential customer for this release, but I am also interested in information about games that never made it to commercial release.

[sh3-rg]

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:57 AM, said:

Hey, look -- I know that you're all for "free love" and whatnot and dumping everything and sharing it

Could you elaborate? I'd like to know exactly what you are referring to with this statement.

[goatdan]

jhd, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:34 AM, said:

How far along in development did these games/rides get before development ceased? Are there any photographs of the original (prototype or production) hardware?

I believe, although we're still doing research on the final details that a number of games were made and test marketed, but that they never made it beyond that phase. The prototype hardware looks like a Jaguar cart without a label (although there were a couple carts that we got with crude labels on them, usually quite damaged, so I'm curious if anyone has any of these that aren't. They are standard inkjet labels, I believe, nothing special about them.

The prototypes that they made for the consoles to run them were literally stock consoles, modified with arcade coax adapters wired directly to the controller ports, and a bracket that literally bolted the cartridge onto the top so that it wouldn't move in an arcade environment. The whole thing looks rather crude, as most of it is just stock material, although the final stuff probably wouldn't have been much different, as from what is known, they were just intending to buy a bunch of closeout consoles and bolt them into the rides.

It's a very interesting and weird way to make hardware for a console.

[goatdan]

sh3-rg, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:49 AM, said:

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:57 AM, said:

Hey, look -- I know that you're all for "free love" and whatnot and dumping everything and sharing it

Could you elaborate? I'd like to know exactly what you are referring to with this statement.

sh3-rg, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:49 AM, said:

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:57 AM, said:

Hey, look -- I know that you're all for "free love" and whatnot and dumping everything and sharing it

Could you elaborate? I'd like to know exactly what you are referring to with this statement.

Sure -- in the Thea Realm Fighters thread, before I got involved, Cyrano had mentioned that he would like to see the ROM show up online, and not have a usual cash-cow money gouge happen. To make this actually make sense, you need the other half of this and you need to read the Thea Realm Fighters thread where I talked about this.

Essentially, if the plan was to make repros with these, dumping them and letting people do whatever they want with them would be better.

The last part of the statement was that we made a monetary risk, and that we're working on something unique because of it. Without having these rights, we wouldn't have been able to do what we're doing. Without planning to sell these, there is a part of the history of the Jaguar that would be lost I'm rather certain. Because it was only the combination of things that will make this work.

It wasn't said as an insult, and I would be happy to talk more about in a PM if you feel that it was. And Cyrano, if you took it as an insult, it was more just to acknowledge your side that you had stated in the other thread too. It's a fine stance to have. But, at this point all the details on the release aren't known, so let's wait to judge if we should have not bought the rights for the game, not released the original cartridges, and not done what we did until after the release happens. If we end up thousands of dollars in the hole because of it, it will be pretty clear that it wasn't a great idea, but I'm still going to personally be glad we tried.

[sh3-rg]

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:01 PM, said:

Sure -- in the Thea Realm Fighters thread, before I got involved, Cyrano had mentioned that he would like to see the ROM show up online, and not have a usual cash-cow money gouge happen.

OK, it actually read more like something I'd have expected to see Gorf post a few years ago than from someone such as yourself... it makes sense in that context, but could also have been read differently "dumping everything and sharing it"... everything meaning all games for the Jaguar, not just hoarded prototypes.

It's never easy to see who's been got at by Stevie's army of little helpers spreading their hate and bile through PMs... those kinds of under-handed scum-xunt tricks do take place, just the more sensible people don't take them on and get involved as I'm sure you know.

[goatdan]

sh3-rg, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:04 PM, said:

OK, it actually read more like something I'd have expected to see Gorf post a few years ago than from someone such as yourself... it makes sense in that context, but could also have been read differently "dumping everything and sharing it"... everything meaning all games for the Jaguar, not just hoarded prototypes.

While I agree that I could have been more clear (sorry), there are people that do feel that way about games, whether it is Jaguar games, NES games or whatever. And that is fine. It's just like I said -- this project wouldn't have gotten to the point that it is at had we not handled it in this specific way. We'll find out what other "whole cloth" stuff that we can come up with for it when we announce it, and you can decide at that point whether it is interesting *to you* or not, but whatever that stuff is wouldn't be part of this package was it not handled this way. Some people have already passed their judgement on it (like Shamus above, who has decided that no matter what we are already too expensive and only including "a pile of junk that nobody in their right mind would want") being not worth it. If that's the case, when it is announced, don't bother reading about it -- it won't change your mind. If you're interested in seeing what it is, whether you support the dumping and pirating of every game ever made, or wish that no game could ever be dumped, then wait and find out whether you think it is worth it or not.

Edited by goatdan, Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:47 PM.

[so_tough!]

Shamus, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:34 AM, said:

Look, I can appreciate the fact that lot of time and money has been put into this project but I'm really having a hard time seeing where the excitement for this comes from. To me, it's like owning a piece off of one of those toy horses that were put out in front of supermarkets for the sole purpose of nicking quarters from exasperated parents.

And the unabashed hawking of this stuff looks like some person went out and acquired the legal rights to a few palettes worth of miscellaneous junk, and then went out and tried to sell the stuff therein as if it were something of intrinsic and obvious value. The person, being too invested in it, couldn't see it for what it was: a pile of junk that nobody in their right mind would want.

Even looking at it from the "owning a piece of history" angle, it looks like the only thing original in the package is going to be the carts themselves--everything else is being made from whole cloth. For anyone who is curious as to what's actually in that "piece of history", here are a couple of YouTube videos demonstrating "game play":





At least in Skycopter II you get to fire missiles at jumbo jets.

Atari should have released these games at launch (not!)! They would have been the killer titles that completely killed the Jaguar.

lol!

Edited by so_tough!, Fri Jan 6, 2012 4:20 PM.

[LinkoVitch]

Hey Goatdan,
I had a thought...

As you have said the likes of Skycopter carts are really only of interest to people who are avid collectors of Jaguar history as you pointed out, people that really want to own the history etc. Would you have any objection to the ROM being made publicly available? This would allow the whole community to have a look at this piece of history without having to battle the collectors. The collectors still get their actual physical piece of history, everyone else gets to have a look. I am sure a true collector is going to prefer to own the real thing than just a ROM image on their HDD, probably much the same reason I buy real physical CDs rather than MP3 versions of songs etc.

[sh3-rg]

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:47 PM, said:

sh3-rg, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:04 PM, said:

OK, it actually read more like something I'd have expected to see Gorf post a few years ago than from someone such as yourself... it makes sense in that context, but could also have been read differently "dumping everything and sharing it"... everything meaning all games for the Jaguar, not just hoarded prototypes.

While I agree that I could have been more clear (sorry), there are people that do feel that way about games, whether it is Jaguar games, NES games or whatever. And that is fine. It's just like I said -- this project wouldn't have gotten to the point that it is at had we not handled it in this specific way. We'll find out what other "whole cloth" stuff that we can come up with for it when we announce it, and you can decide at that point whether it is interesting *to you* or not, but whatever that stuff is wouldn't be part of this package was it not handled this way. Some people have already passed their judgement on it (like Shamus above, who has decided that no matter what we are already too expensive and only including "a pile of junk that nobody in their right mind would want") being not worth it. If that's the case, when it is announced, don't bother reading about it -- it won't change your mind. If you're interested in seeing what it is, whether you support the dumping and pirating of every game ever made, or wish that no game could ever be dumped, then wait and find out whether you think it is worth it or not.

I'm not sure if all that was directed to me personally or to everyone, but as you can see from my previous posts, I'm all for stuff getting released for collectors to treasure, especially original strange stuff like this direct from boxes where it's sat since 1996. I might not actively collect classic games anymore but there's enough of the collector left to appreciate it :-) Also I'm interested to see if you unearthed any of the other titles or design ideas for them, such as Space Guy, might not want to actually play them, but knowing would be good

Sure, as games, I think I lean towards OMF's and Shamus' views of them. Doesn't mean I don't think you'll sell out as though. practically nobody is going to be buying these to play, they'll be buying them to have as part of a complete collection and if it's for way less than the $200-$400 they've been seen for before it can't be a bad thing in that sense. And they sold, what, 100 copies of Tiny Toons Proto didn't they? If there's 100 people willing to put the cash down for that, I don't think you'll struggle to shift these as they seem to have more interest and value to collectors as far as I can tell from the hints you're giving. It's also all above-board so nobody can complain about that aspect, they're all actual 'originals' from the factory floor!

If you'd have really wanted the so-called 'cash gouge' you could have trickled them out one buy one every few months or even years at the more insane end of Jaguar game pricing point like those recent ones on eBay (although I was surprised to find out who the seller was tbh), so I'm sure the collectors will appreciate that if not the actual games themselves. There's so little in the way of new Jaguar cartridge releases just now that I think you could make a game in a few hours, put it on cart & sell out in a week, collectors are that starved of new things to hoover up.

Hope you at least break even soon & hope after the skunk IIIs are gone there's a new skunk lite to take it's place at an even better price-point - we need more people involved with enjoying and making things for the Jaguar as the old fans are dwindling all the time.

[goatdan]

sh3-rg, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 4:49 PM, said:

I'm not sure if all that was directed to me personally or to everyone, but as you can see from my previous posts, I'm all for stuff getting released for collectors to treasure, especially original strange stuff like this direct from boxes where it's sat since 1996. I might not actively collect classic games anymore but there's enough of the collector left to appreciate it :-) Also I'm interested to see if you unearthed any of the other titles or design ideas for them, such as Space Guy, might not want to actually play them, but knowing would be good

Everyone, really

Quote

Sure, as games, I think I lean towards OMF's and Shamus' views of them. Doesn't mean I don't think you'll sell out as though. practically nobody is going to be buying these to play, they'll be buying them to have as part of a complete collection and if it's for way less than the $200-$400 they've been seen for before it can't be a bad thing in that sense. And they sold, what, 100 copies of Tiny Toons Proto didn't they? If there's 100 people willing to put the cash down for that, I don't think you'll struggle to shift these as they seem to have more interest and value to collectors as far as I can tell from the hints you're giving. It's also all above-board so nobody can complain about that aspect, they're all actual 'originals' from the factory floor!

Hey, and you know what -- as games, I tend to agree with OMF's and Shamus' views of them too. But, at least in my video game collecting, I often don't purchase things because of my views of them as games. I own every PS1 longbox. Of those, I have played (drumroll) ONE of the games they contain! Seriously. Well, maybe two, but I think just one. I love how they look, and the history they represent. My copy of Skycopter is no different, and I think that most people will agree with that who decide to purchase them.

Quote

If you'd have really wanted the so-called 'cash gouge' you could have trickled them out one buy one every few months or even years at the more insane end of Jaguar game pricing point like those recent ones on eBay (although I was surprised to find out who the seller was tbh), so I'm sure the collectors will appreciate that if not the actual games themselves. There's so little in the way of new Jaguar cartridge releases just now that I think you could make a game in a few hours, put it on cart & sell out in a week, collectors are that starved of new things to hoover up.

I don't know -- I think that games still only sell under two circumstances:

1) The game is actually worth playing

- or -

2) The game is in some way historical.

This release definitely falls into the latter category. I think it's a really neat story, personally, and that is why I get interested by stuff like that

Quote

Hope you at least break even soon & hope after the skunk IIIs are gone there's a new skunk lite to take it's place at an even better price-point - we need more people involved with enjoying and making things for the Jaguar as the old fans are dwindling all the time.

Thanks As for Skunks, here's the complete honest truth about them...

The runs cost a TON of money to make. The margin on them is not very big as it is. With the components on the boards now obsolete and nearly impossible to find, it would take a HUGE redesign of the boards to really make them functional, and the risk in doing so with more than 400 in the market already is extremely high. I'm not saying this because I want people to think that I'm trying to scare them into purchasing boards, but the Ghost run if it was a stand alone run would currently be thousands in the hole. Because we had such great success with the first run and the boards not failing, we're almost at even between the two runs put together. But, with the slower demand, I cannot imagine putting thousands on the line again to do another round. If it did happen, they would probably be significantly more expensive too, unfortunately. And, we'd basically be starting over from scratch -- say something was wired wrong -- we'd have 100 really expensive doorsteps.

Because of that, I would suggest that if you want a Skunkboard, we've got some, but don't wait too long to get yours. I wish I could say otherwise, but I see no way to plausibly do another run of them in the future.

Having said all that, with an additional nearly 200 in the marketplace, we hope that it keeps the prices on the secondary market reasonable for those who want them when they do sell out

[save2600]

Look out for that cow pie!

Hey... is it me, or does Speedster seem to have a better framerate than Checkered Flag? Looks like a much more playable game...

And what's with the #2 denominations of these titles? Where's Speedster I or Skycopter I?

Too bad you can't circle and bomb that Wal-Mart store in Skycopter. Now *that* would be fun. Seeing all the people of Wal-Mart running for their lives.

Edited by save2600, Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:22 PM.

[Sauron]

Just a quick note here, everyone....

In the future, in any threads concerning upcoming releases, it is not necessary to voice your own intentions of not purchasing said release. If you feel that a certain release is not going to appeal to you for some reason, please refrain from making a commotion about it. There's no need to harp upon any disagreements you have with the release, regardless of what they are. We've had plenty enough drama in this forum, there's no need to stir up any more.

Thanks!

[16BitMan]

Sounds like somebody needs to make a hack

[save2600]

@Sauron: I would tend to agree, but in a public forum, where people express release news... if they don't want those types of comments (which may actually help in their decision to market something a particular way), then they should be posts of the non-remakable kind. Like a Blog or maybe immediately locking the post afterwards?

In this particular case though, I think *some* of the negativity could be a gauge or metric in how to price such a product. They may take the criticism and adjust accordingly. Or not. Assuming a margin of wiggle room of course.

Edited by save2600, Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:39 PM.

[sh3-rg]

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:07 PM, said:

Thanks As for Skunks, here's the complete honest truth about them...

Just to clarify, my [LIKE] on that post is for the stuff above the skunk comments, not for the stuff about you nearly losing thousands making them!

Have to be careful what you're liking with the button...

[goatdan]

LinkoVitch, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 4:36 PM, said:

Hey Goatdan,
I had a thought...

As you have said the likes of Skycopter carts are really only of interest to people who are avid collectors of Jaguar history as you pointed out, people that really want to own the history etc. Would you have any objection to the ROM being made publicly available? This would allow the whole community to have a look at this piece of history without having to battle the collectors. The collectors still get their actual physical piece of history, everyone else gets to have a look. I am sure a true collector is going to prefer to own the real thing than just a ROM image on their HDD, probably much the same reason I buy real physical CDs rather than MP3 versions of songs etc.

Sorry, I missed this before, but...

As of this exact minute, we're not planning on that. Here's the thing though -- we're putting together all the details for the final release still. So, in other words, it hasn't been ruled in, it hasn't been ruled out. We have to figure everything else out though before we can publicly comment on anything.

I like the idea, but it depends. Honestly, I'd also have to read through the contract again that we did to obtain the rights for the games, as I would have to make sure nothing stops us from doing that.

For now, all I can say is... maybe?

[goatdan]

save2600, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:20 PM, said:

And what's with the #2 denominations of these titles? Where's Speedster I or Skycopter I?

The regular versions weren't going to have screens in them. They essentially looked like this:

http://www.kiddierid...12/heli-rwb.jpg

The "2" versions were denoting the fact that they were a more advanced version of the original rides.

[goatdan]

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:14 PM, said:

save2600, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:20 PM, said:

And what's with the #2 denominations of these titles? Where's Speedster I or Skycopter I?

The regular versions weren't going to have screens in them. They essentially looked like this:

http://www.kiddierid...12/heli-rwb.jpg

The "2" versions were denoting the fact that they were a more advanced version of the original rides.

Sorry to quote my own thread, but if the picture above would be the "regular" version of SkyCopter, this site has what is more or less what the difference would have been between SkyCopter and SkyCopter II.

http://www.leisureco...tive-helicopter

From what I know, however, that is not the molding nor the game for SkyCopter II.

[Sauron]

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:14 PM, said:

save2600, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:20 PM, said:

And what's with the #2 denominations of these titles? Where's Speedster I or Skycopter I?

The regular versions weren't going to have screens in them. They essentially looked like this:

http://www.kiddierid...12/heli-rwb.jpg

The "2" versions were denoting the fact that they were a more advanced version of the original rides.

Thanks for clearing that up, was curious about that myself.

[Atari_Owl]

sh3-rg, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:32 PM, said:

goatdan, on Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:07 PM, said:

Thanks As for Skunks, here's the complete honest truth about them...

Just to clarify, my [LIKE] on that post is for the stuff above the skunk comments, not for the stuff about you nearly losing thousands making them!

Have to be careful what you're liking with the button...

Thats the difficulty with the Like thing, it doesn't necessarily different what parts of a post one may or may not agree with, and its all to easy in moments of frustration or annoyance to 'like' something as a reaction.

Regarding Skycopter and Speedster, they really can't be considered games in the same sense as the other Jag games, but i can see that for some there is a historical interest and i'm sure no-one would want you or anyone to lose money on this, let alone on something as important to the Jaguar as the skunkboards

[82-T/A]

sh3-rg, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 2:05 PM, said:

ls650, on Wed Jan 4, 2012 1:28 PM, said:

Are these games actually any fun to play? From what I've seen of them (Youtube vids) they look, um, rather lame... but maybe I am wrong?

They're immense fun! ...as long as you're the one watching the poor fool holding two jagpads attempting to 'play' these 'games'

I took some videos of someone playing, but didn't post them to youtube as they really weren't worth watching (I was attempting to capture the sprite clipping errors rather than to make a video worth watching).

Purely for the must-own-everything-ever-released-at-all-costs collector, zero first-person entertainment value.

Oh man, that's me...

I used to have a s**t-ton of video games. I sold almost everything, but pretty much kept the majority of my Atari stuff, certainly, I kept all my Atari Jaguar stuff. I bought all the Songbird Productions games except World Tour Racing, and maybe one other CD game... I definitely bought all the cartridge games. When I realized there was no chance I was going to get Battlesphere Gold (or the normal Battlesphere), I quickly got over that. The Songbird games were (are) actually QUITE good. I don't really get around to playing them, but even though the side-scrollers aren't really my favorite type of game, I bought them anyway. Protector and Protector SE were TOTALLY worth buying... Towers II (although I think I got that from Telegames) was good, and Iron Soldier 2 cartridge, Skyhammer was awesome too...

Holy crap, I just did a search for his website... Iron Soldier II on cartridge is really 110 bucks?! DAMN! The prices of some of these cartridges have gone up. I guess where there is a demand. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to produce these games, so I TOTALLY respect anyone who is willing to take the time to do this... that goes for the people who actually write the home brews, and the people who do the production quality release (cartridge, box, manuals, everything).

Damn... I don't think I own Soccer Kid... I'm pretty sure I bought it, but now I'll have to check... crap...