37 replies to this topic

[HuckleCat]

Eleventy Billion.

That's how many testicles Chris Lynx and Atarian have licked on for the 2011 fiscal year.

The wives know.

[Metal Ghost]

Atariboy, on Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:33 AM, said:

chris_lynx1989, on Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:08 AM, said:

@Atariboy

No,not thin air.It has been in the news several times,discussions on games on G4 and Spike during the last few years.Also during the year if it wasn't at CES or E3 coverage time.

Sony's stuff came from PTOM/GI and/or those sources too.

The division responsible for the Xbox has been profitable for upwards of half a decade now. Just quickly glancing at their latest annual report, the division responsible for gaming showed a 497 profit in 2008, a 351 million profit in 2009 (When the recession was in full tilt), a 618 million profit in 2010, and a profit of over 1.3 billion in 2011.

Well Atariboy, you must be wrong. I mean, you're only looking at audited financial statements. Vs. 3rd party heresay that, apparently, is from G4 and Spike TV. I mean, come on, who are you going to believe!?!?!

Beyond that, here is a solid verifiable source: Dean Takahashi and his recent features at VentureBeat. (http://venturebeat.c...he-xbox-part-2/)

"But Microsoft had dug itself a hole. After four years, Microsoft’s Home and Entertainment Group reported a total loss of $4 billion. That number included some other money-losing ventures too. But the vast majority of it was due to Xbox and the loss that the company was taking on every machine that it made. Even so, at the time, losing $4 billion over four years wasn’t a big deal; Microsoft was generating $4 billion in cash every two quarters. By sticking it out, Microsoft eventually wound up with a game business that was generating more than a billion dollars a year in profits."

" "Clearly it was a big investment — but one that paid off well," said Bach. “A business has been built that is worth much more than the original investment, the ongoing earnings potential is high, Microsoft has an ongoing relationship with millions of consumers through Xbox Live, and the company has a great opportunity in the living room and three screen entertainment space going forward.”

"Ed Fries, former head of Microsoft Game Studios, added, “I wouldn’t say we lost $4 billion. I’d say we spent $4 billion building the Xbox brand and business.”
He noted that a recent brand value study says the Xbox brand alone (not counting the actual business) is worth more than $4 billion today."

Ok, so $4B lost over 4 years of the original Xbox's life span, that then yielded a game business starting witht he 360 that's averaging over $1B a year in profits, over what, it's been out 6 or 7 years now? Plus a brand that's worth $4B alone.

Yep, seems like a terrible investment. Right, right.

[TwiliteZoner]

I guess he missed the sales quotes from Microsoft regarding the sales for the week of Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Roughly 800,000+ units sold. That's for one week folks.

Yeah, they're hurting...

[SoulBlazer]

Yeah, Microsoft lost a lot of money on the Xbox and the early days of the 360 (having all those bad units and needing to fix them at cost didn't help things!) but the game division is profitable now and should be from here on out.

Microsoft KNEW they were going to lose money. They had fully studied the situation before coming out with the original XBox and had calculated they would need about several BILLION dollars to break into the home console business. They also knew they would take losses for several years. It's a major undertaking, designing and selling a game console these days and supporting it.

That's exactly what happened to Atari in the early to mid 90's and Sega in the late 90's to early 00's -- both companies could no longer afford the massive ammounts of money it takes to have and support a game company these days. Only a major company with big pockets can exist in the industry today, compared to the old days.

Also, Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles at a loss, based on the 'razor' model (making money back from games). Sony also has incured major expenses with the Playstations. Only Nintendo sells their consoles at a profit.

Plus money comes back into the company other ways also -- think of how much money comes in due to XBox Live, for example.

Only a handfull of other companies have the money and resources to make a game console if they want to -- Apple being one of them, and they seem content to rule the handheld market with IPhones/IPad's.

Edited by SoulBlazer, Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:33 PM.

[Starscream]

http://www.joystiq.c...illion-in-2011/

[onlysublime]

SoulBlazer, on Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:31 PM, said:

Also, Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles at a loss, based on the 'razor' model (making money back from games). Sony also has incured major expenses with the Playstations. Only Nintendo sells their consoles at a profit.

Plus money comes back into the company other ways also -- think of how much money comes in due to XBox Live, for example.

Only a handfull of other companies have the money and resources to make a game console if they want to -- Apple being one of them, and they seem content to rule the handheld market with IPhones/IPad's.

Actually, all the consoles are for profit at this point in their lifecycle.

But in terms of losses this generation, it's Sony that's bore the brunt of it. They gambled heavily on the Cell processor, hoping it would bring a division that would rival Intel, AMD, ARM, etc. It was supposed to be a processor that would be in computers, entertainment devices, etc. They built new foundries which they have since sold off for a loss. And now Cell is dedicated to PS3, some TVs, and possibly PS4.

http://www.bloomberg...attle-tech.html

"Sony, worth $100 billion in September 2000, is now valued at $18 billion, compared with Cupertino, California-based Apple at $364 billion and Samsung at $137 billion. "

"Sony has lost 399.3 billion yen ($5.1 billion) the past three years and predicts adding more this year amid competition with Apple and Samsung Electronics Inc. (005930)."

The most profitable divisions now at Sony are the movie division and the music division. The gaming division is making a profit now but it's tiny when compared to its heyday and what the other divisions are making. wow, this thread has careened so far due to the ultimate Sony fanboy. Thanks, atarian63.

[Video]

The cost of going to those shows is going up, and the3 return on that investment just isn't there any more. Those types of shows made sense int he 90's when not everybody and their uncle, and their uncles dog had access to internet. Now, there's not much point in stuff like CES....is there?

[Tickled_Pink]

chris_lynx1989, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:22 PM, said:

Yeah,the XBox Division has consistently lost 1 to 1.5 million per day since 2000 when it launched.

Sony is in the same boat as M$,they've been losing BILLIONS on PS2/PS3/PSP for years now too.Figure that daily loss up for M$,it adds up to a TON of money!Sony and M$ are large enough to spread those losses out to look prettier to stockholders and all.Atari wasn't and couldn't and died.

Is this sarcasm? Hard to tell. The ps3 has indeed made substantial losses. The ps2 however is still bringing in a profit, which is why Sony continue to manufacture it. It was even beating the 360 for sales in Japan some months last year.

[Atariboy]

I doubt it's sarcasm. He's in his own world where a system that surpassed 150 million units sold was a financial disaster. He seems to fully believe the nonsense he's posting.

I'm not sure they're still manufacturing Playstation 2's. At least, retailers around here don't seem to be restocking any and they're not carried online at places like Wal-Mart and GameStop (Which is ashame since I wanted to use some gift cards I recieved last month on a spare since I'm sure the days of being able to buy a new PS2 are close to an end).

The GameStop clerk locally said they haven't been regularly stocked there for quite sometime (And refused to check the inventory system to see if any other locations around here did, being quite sure they wouldn't have any anywhere despite the product page at their website saying some stores might still have some stock, and proceeded to unsuccessfully try to sell me a $30 used piece of junk in lieu of a new system). I see Amazon still has some stock, though.

I had hoped it would reach the $50 level like the Playstation did, but it doesn't appear like it will ever get a MSRP below $99.99. Too bad since I bet they'd sell a significant number of systems if they could get the price down to $50.

Edited by Atariboy, Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:04 PM.

[pce_collector]

Atariboy, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:56 PM, said:

I doubt it's sarcasm. He's in his own world where a system that surpassed 150 million units sold was a financial disaster. He seems to fully believe the nonsense he's posting.

I'm not sure they're still manufacturing Playstation 2's. At least, retailers around here don't seem to be restocking any and they're not carried online at places like Wal-Mart and GameStop (Which is ashame since I wanted to use some gift cards I recieved last month on a spare since I'm sure the days of being able to buy a new PS2 are close to an end).

The GameStop clerk locally said they haven't been regularly stocked there for quite sometime (And refused to check the inventory system to see if any other locations around here did, being quite sure they wouldn't have any anywhere despite the product page at their website saying some stores might still have some stock, and proceeded to unsuccessfully try to sell me a $30 used piece of junk in lieu of a new system). I see Amazon still has some stock, though.

I had hoped it would reach the $50 level like the Playstation did, but it doesn't appear like it will ever get a MSRP below $99.99. Too bad since I bet they'd sell a significant number of systems if they could get the price down to $50.

Look around for those brand new PS2 consoles. My local Best Buy still has them on the shelves. Independent stores may also be worth a try.

[Atariboy]

Living in rural upstate NY, there's not really such a thing as independent game stores (Most of the communities, including the village I live in with two colleges, don't even have their own GameStop). The few that have appeared always have disappeared in short order. I support them when they're an option, though.

I could just get it from Amazon, but I wanted to use these GameStop gift cards on one. Guess I'll have to get one somewhere else and save these for something else.

Edited by Atariboy, Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:50 PM.

[Tickled_Pink]

Atariboy, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:56 PM, said:

I doubt it's sarcasm. He's in his own world where a system that surpassed 150 million units sold was a financial disaster. He seems to fully believe the nonsense he's posting.

I'm not sure they're still manufacturing Playstation 2's. At least, retailers around here don't seem to be restocking any and they're not carried online at places like Wal-Mart and GameStop (Which is ashame since I wanted to use some gift cards I recieved last month on a spare since I'm sure the days of being able to buy a new PS2 are close to an end).

The GameStop clerk locally said they haven't been regularly stocked there for quite sometime (And refused to check the inventory system to see if any other locations around here did, being quite sure they wouldn't have any anywhere despite the product page at their website saying some stores might still have some stock, and proceeded to unsuccessfully try to sell me a $30 used piece of junk in lieu of a new system). I see Amazon still has some stock, though.

I had hoped it would reach the $50 level like the Playstation did, but it doesn't appear like it will ever get a MSRP below $99.99. Too bad since I bet they'd sell a significant number of systems if they could get the price down to $50.

I suspect that what's happened is that Sony are no longer selling the PS2 outside of Asia. I haven't seen any being stocked here in the UK for a couple of years. However, they have continued to manufacture them up to 12 months ago because the PS2 division was still turning over a profit.

I found an article a couple of weeks ago that showed the PS2 outselling the 360 in Japan last spring.

[Austin]

Atariboy, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:56 PM, said:

I had hoped it would reach the $50 level like the Playstation did, but it doesn't appear like it will ever get a MSRP below $99.99. Too bad since I bet they'd sell a significant number of systems if they could get the price down to $50.

I have held off on buying a Slim PS2 for this reason as well. The PS1 was knocked down to $50 at the end of its life. Hopefully the PS2 will as well..