44 replies to this topic

[8th lutz]

I just had a chance to look at my new Gameinformer issue. Gameinformer was grading Launch lineups of most game consoles starting the Atari 2600.

Gameinformer typed Atari 7800 was launched in June 1986 and titles available on Launch day were Asteroids, Joust, and Ms. Pac-Man.

Gameinformer typed "The Atari 7800 was orginally supoosed to come out in 1984, but the Great Video Game Crash of 1983 caused the company to shelve for two years. That mistake is readily apparent in its paltry day-one selection of three titles. The 7800 could play 2600 games, but at this point who would want to?"

Gameinformer also considered that Atari 5200 and the Atari 7800 to have the worst console launches in History for their inability to offer relevant games or do anything to positively state the cases for those system.

There is one thing able the article they created that makes you question their research. They straight said that they are 100 percent certain that Super Mario Bros. was a launch title for the Nes.

Edited by 8th lutz, Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:00 PM.

[Underball]

People love to crack on the 7800, and in the same breath fawn over the NES.

People are stupid.

[Rex Dart]

Sounds about right. You'd think Atari would have picked up on the fact that home video games got really popular after the VCS, but what do they do? Give you three games already available on the 2600 and 5200.

Edited by Rex Dart, Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:10 PM.

[8th lutz]

I agree the games the 7800 for a launch in1986 was dated, but I thought the Atari 7800 was released in Jaunuary 1986 for the re-release of the system. I thought the 3 titles Gameinformer mentioned were good games though. Asteroids was the game that was even considered old by 1984 though.

What the 7800 needed to add for its 1986 launch was Pac-Man Collection, Failsafe, Space Duel, and Scramble to their Launch lineup. I know all those are games Bob programmed for the 7800 or middle of, but they are titles that would have been system sellers, or games that haven't been released on any Atari game console. The only reason didn't have all the homebrew titles as a launch titles was do to the fact they needed to be saved for the later part of 1986 and all of 1987.

I know the games I mention were dated for adding on, but actually Pac-Man Collection would have been a system seller as a launch title. The amount of Pac-Man titles and options Pac-Man Collection has actually would have been a must have game for people that were fans of the arcade games.

Failsafe would have been great for the fact the game really wouldn't have been out of place for 1986 since it is a sequel to Countermeasure.

Space Duel isn't quite as old as Asteroids. Scramble actually would give people a title that only was released on the Vectrex.

Edited by 8th lutz, Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:42 PM.

[Curious Sofa]

I can see what they're saying, but I've got to agree with the defense of the 7800 lineup as well; those three are fantastic arcade ports for the 7800, some of my favorites for the system.

[krypton85]

What about Pole Position II?

[AtariLeaf]

I'm biased but I'd take 7800 Asteroids, Joust, or Ms Pacman over any of the NES's US launch titles.

[ApolloBoy]

8th lutz, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:49 PM, said:

They straight said that they are 100 percent certain that Super Mario Bros. was a launch title for the Nes.

I think it's been established that SMB wasn't a launch title and was instead released in '86. Plus they got the launch lineup for the 7800 horribly wrong as there was more than just the three (PP II, Galaga, Xevious, Dig Dug, Food Fight, Robotron, Centipede).

[Sonic R]

sooo... what did they say about the Jaguar launch line up???

(Cybermorph, Raiden, Trevor McFur, and Dino Dudes)

and I am curious to what they said about any 'pre-crash' console launch line up...

is there a link to this game informer article?

and I am probably incorrect, but were there not 11 games that were launched with the 7800? I thought I read some where about the fabulous 11 for the 7800...

[ApolloBoy]

Sonic R, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:03 PM, said:

but were there not 11 games that were launched with the 7800? I thought I read some where about the fabulous 11 for the 7800...

Just ten. Desert Falcon was part of the "Fabulous 11" but wasn't released until 1987.

[Lynxpro]

Xevious was an A+ title even in 1986. The amount of quarters my friends and I spent on that game in 1985 at the local roller rink ensured it. And I prefer the 7800 version of Xevious over the NES version or the ST version...

[wood_jl]

Perhaps Scrapyard Dog should have been a launch title, to compete with the then-innovative Super Mario Brothers.

[GroovyBee]

In my opinion the launch line up on the 7800 was very weak (except Robotron) when you look at what the 7800 can actually do graphically and when compared to the standard of the games available on the home computers of the time. It really needed games like Boulderdash, Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus for launch. With a view to releasing bigger games like Gauntlet within the first 18 months.

[DracIsBack]

I don't think the launch titles in and of themselves were bad games, but they were certainly 'dated' compared to the more detailed adventure games that were to come. At the time, I remember friends thinking Pole Position II and (especially) Xevious were nice, but that the others were "old school" in terms of looks, repetitiveness and ... frankly ... having been out for a long time already on other systems.

[S1500]

Atari was still thinking of arcade games. Nintendo took a bit of a different direction. Sure, arcadey games, but a bit more, something or another.

[Tempest]

Sonic R, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:03 PM, said:

sooo... what did they say about the Jaguar launch line up???

(Cybermorph, Raiden, Trevor McFur, and Dino Dudes)

Interesting, I never knew those were the launch titles for the Jag. Makes sense though:

Cybermorph - Originally a Panther title
Raiden - Originally a Falcon title (3 stage demo exists)
Trevor McFur - Originally a Panther title
Dino Dudes - Originally a Falcon title

I wonder what the first game specifically designed for the Jag was?

[Curt Vendel]

I think that's an unfair assessment of the 7800, given it had Xevious, Galaga and Pole Position II in its launch line up, all of which were not available on any other console and with Desert Falcon, a new and unique launch title, those alone give the 7800 a good launch line up. What plays against the 7800 obviously is those titles - ready in 84, would'nt see wide spread sales/play until 86, so its really not the launch line, its the launch delay that is the factor.

Packing Super Breakout with the 5200 was the most ill executed marketing blunder of that decade, it just oozed of "cheap pack-in" and when you throw in the slap to the face pack in of Donkey Kong on the Colecovision, Super breakout included looked even worse.

[Agent X]

8th lutz, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:49 PM, said:

There is one thing able the article they created that makes you question their research. They straight said that they are 100 percent certain that Super Mario Bros. was a launch title for the Nes.

The article (at least in the Web-based version that I'm viewing) admits "we're not 100 percent certain whether the legendary Super Mario Bros. was at the New York launch of the system". Personally, if you asked me on the spot, I would have said that it was available in the test market in late 1985 (as I was in the test market area), but maybe my memory is a little hazy.

Regardless of whether or not SMB was a "true" NES launch title, what's rather irritating is that when they run down the launch lineups, they give the NES great leeway by qualifying the extended list of "national launch" games for the NES...yet for the 7800 they rag on it for having a "paltry day-one selection of three titles". Their research is so thin and stilted that they forgot about the pack-in game!

They made a critical mistake here of not measuring all systems by the same yardstick. Perhaps the three games they named were the 7800's very limited 1984 test market lineup (minus the pack-in), but I don't know, and it doesn't matter. From what I recall of the "real" 7800 launch in 1986, there were 10 games available (as others have also mentioned above). If they granted the NES the luxury of rattling off a full slate of games for its "national launch", then they should have extended the same benefit to the 7800, and listed all 10 of its "national launch" games.

There were numerous other errors in the article as well. They only listed three games for the 5200, and I remember that having some other big games like Star Raiders and Pac-Man early on. Several other systems have had launch titles omitted, while others (3DO being a good example) had games listed as launch titles that didn't actually come out until a year or more later! All in all, it was a very poorly researched article.

Tempest, on Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:06 AM, said:

Sonic R, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:03 PM, said:

sooo... what did they say about the Jaguar launch line up???

(Cybermorph, Raiden, Trevor McFur, and Dino Dudes)

Interesting, I never knew those were the launch titles for the Jag. Makes sense though:

Cybermorph - Originally a Panther title
Raiden - Originally a Falcon title (3 stage demo exists)
Trevor McFur - Originally a Panther title
Dino Dudes - Originally a Falcon title

I wonder what the first game specifically designed for the Jag was?

Raiden and Dino Dudes weren't launch games. They didn't come out until nearly a month later. Then again, I'm not sure if Game Informer's supposed to be using the "test market launch" or the "national launch" here.

[ZylonBane]

Curt Vendel, on Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:43 AM, said:

I think that's an unfair assessment of the 7800, given it had Xevious, Galaga and Pole Position II in its launch line up, all of which were not available on any other console and with Desert Falcon, a new and unique launch title, those alone give the 7800 a good launch line up.

I wouldn't consider Desert Falcon--a clumsy, overcomplicated Zaxxon knockoff--to be either unique or good.

[Retro Rogue]

8th lutz, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:49 PM, said:

I just had a chance to look at my new Gameinformer issue. Gameinformer was grading Launch lineups of most game consoles starting the Atari 2600.

Gameinformer typed Atari 7800 was launched in June 1986 and titles available on Launch day were Asteroids, Joust, and Ms. Pac-Man.

Gameinformer typed "The Atari 7800 was orginally supoosed to come out in 1984, but the Great Video Game Crash of 1983 caused the company to shelve for two years. That mistake is readily apparent in its paltry day-one selection of three titles. The 7800 could play 2600 games, but at this point who would want to?"

Gameinformer also considered that Atari 5200 and the Atari 7800 to have the worst console launches in History for their inability to offer relevant games or do anything to positively state the cases for those system.

There is one thing able the article they created that makes you question their research. They straight said that they are 100 percent certain that Super Mario Bros. was a launch title for the Nes.

Just one thing? Almost all their facts are wrong. The Mario statement is actually correct, it wasn't an initial launch title and was added later during the New York test market.

a) The 7800 was relaunched in January of '86 not June.

b) It wasn't shelved two years because of the crash. It was on hold because of negotiations between Jack, Warner, and GCC.

c) There were more than three titles, where on earth did they get that number?

d) They had trouble getting licenses for the hot arcade titles at the time of the relaunch. They were already snapped up by Nintendo or owned outright by Nintendo and Sega. Hence Mike Katz went to Epyx and his old computer software industry contacts to license formerly computer only games.

[SoulBlazer]

Retro Rogue, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:09 PM, said:

Just one thing? Almost all their facts are wrong. The Mario statement is actually correct, it wasn't an initial launch title and was added later during the New York test market.

a) The 7800 was relaunched in January of '86 not June.

b) It wasn't shelved two years because of the crash. It was on hold because of negotiations between Jack, Warner, and GCC.

c) There were more than three titles, where on earth did they get that number?

d) They had trouble getting licenses for the hot arcade titles at the time of the relaunch. They were already snapped up by Nintendo or owned outright by Nintendo and Sega. Hence Mike Katz went to Epyx and his old computer software industry contacts to license formerly computer only games.

There's a note on the bottom of the first page -- it's rather hard to see -- but it says where they got their info from:

"Data was drawn from Phoenix: Fall and Rise of Videogames, Wikipedia, and other Internet sources"

Kudos to them for using Phoenix -- one of the best video game books ever written -- but there are problems with using net sources.

[Goldfish]

The most infuriating thing about this is that you were reading GameInformer.

[jedijeff]

Underball, on Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:02 PM, said:

People are stupid.

This is true.

[Retro Rogue]

SoulBlazer, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:47 PM, said:

Retro Rogue, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:09 PM, said:

Just one thing? Almost all their facts are wrong. The Mario statement is actually correct, it wasn't an initial launch title and was added later during the New York test market.

a) The 7800 was relaunched in January of '86 not June.

b) It wasn't shelved two years because of the crash. It was on hold because of negotiations between Jack, Warner, and GCC.

c) There were more than three titles, where on earth did they get that number?

d) They had trouble getting licenses for the hot arcade titles at the time of the relaunch. They were already snapped up by Nintendo or owned outright by Nintendo and Sega. Hence Mike Katz went to Epyx and his old computer software industry contacts to license formerly computer only games.

There's a note on the bottom of the first page -- it's rather hard to see -- but it says where they got their info from:

"Data was drawn from Phoenix: Fall and Rise of Videogames, Wikipedia, and other Internet sources"

Kudos to them for using Phoenix -- one of the best video game books ever written -- but there are problems with using net sources.

Len's book is of course great, but there's been a lot of research since the last edition was written - hence he's updating it. Looking forward to reading it.

[swlovinist]

While previous retro articles in Game Informer have been decent...this one was not. Too many problems with a bunch of scores that they gave systems and their launches. The 7800 definitely had a better launch lineup than an F.