42 replies to this topic

[Hatta]

Nobody said that copying 3DO games wasn't OK. We just said it's not legal. There's a difference.

To give NinjaWarrior a serious response, yes it is actually legal. See 17 USC 117:

Quote

it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1)

that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner

Making a copy of a cartridge is an essential step with utilizing the computer program in conjunction with a modern PC, so yes this is specifically allowed by copyright law. Note that this applies only to computer programs. Music and movies (ripping CDs and DVDs) has no exemption, but may fall under the poorly defined doctrine of fair use. But if someone wants to challenge your fair use, you'll have to defend it in court. (Edit: the DMCA also applies wherever there is any copyright protection. Breaking copyright protection is illegal, even if it's done for interoperability. The only exeption to this is for cell phones.)


Or you could just be realistic and understand that the law was not written to benefit the people, and the people don't owe it any respect as a result. This is really the only way to deal with the law an retain your sanity.

Edited by Hatta, Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:43 AM.

[thegoldenband]

Reaperman, on Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:13 AM, said:

I gave looking it up a quick go but couldn't locate it. (most gaming sites are blocked from here anyway)
Do you happen to remember if it was open source? I love their game engine--but I think it needs to be used for an overhead racing game.

It's called Hardwired, and should be present in the comprehensive ROM sets like GoodGen. I don't know of any source code release, though. And yeah, that engine is one heck of a tech demo!

[Lendorien]

Making burned copies of games you do not own would be illegal. Given the ridiculous copyright lengths in the US, all the games originally released for the system are presumably still under copyright. Therefore, making copies of them (assuming you do not own them) would be illegal under current copyright law unless the copyright holder has released them into the public domain or given liscence to copy them.

Now, noone is going to arrest or even fine you for it, given that it's a system from 20 years ago that is no longer sold, but if this is an issue you're truly concerned about, then there's your answer. It's not legal. Does it matter? Probably not. Is it right to do? No, cause it's against the law. Act according to your conscience.

Edited by Lendorien, Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:31 AM.

[Torr]

I also think it boils down to collectivity (is that a word?). As a collector, what looks nicer on you shelf; a line of 3DO games, representing what was once the rich mans toy, among the first 32bit consoles AND on CD (CDs were a big deal back then) - OR- a spindle full of generic CDs with bad penmanship scrawled across them an d no instruction manual to reference if necessary?
Plus if you're gonna burn them, why bother? just play the ISOs with FreeDO and sell your 3DO... if your gonna pirate the software, why buy the system legitimately?

Not to sound callous, I have nothing against piracy of something this old, obscure and not profitable to the original makers.
But remember it IS piracy. As has been said so many times already. (with the exception of that ONE title I guess someone else mentioned)

However It would be cool to make a list of all the publicly released games that have been made available... I know Zero Tolerance on the Sega Genesis has been made free for download/copy/whatever by the developers/creators/whatever...

[Austin]

Torr, on Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:15 AM, said:

just play the ISOs with FreeDO and sell your 3DO... if your gonna pirate the software, why buy the system legitimately?

Maybe you like having hardware? Or maybe you don't want to shell out $100+ for Lucienne's Quest? There are plenty of reasons, not excluding the fact that emulation is far from perfect in itself and nothing will beat playing on original hardware with the original controllers the games were designed to be played with.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Austin, on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:59 AM, said:

Torr, on Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:15 AM, said:

just play the ISOs with FreeDO and sell your 3DO... if your gonna pirate the software, why buy the system legitimately?

Maybe you like having hardware? Or maybe you don't want to shell out $100+ for Lucienne's Quest? There are plenty of reasons, not excluding the fact that emulation is far from perfect in itself and nothing will beat playing on original hardware with the original controllers the games were designed to be played with.

Exactly! I am a collector of console and computer HARDWARE, I do not care what form the software comes in, that is just ME and yes some emulation like 3DO is not the greatest. I enjoy the original system and controller but couldn't care less how it loads the game or the media it is stored on. Also, I have no interest, time, motivation hunting down each and every title for all my systems. Again just personal preference but an example of WHY I would choose to burn them instead. Everyone has there own set of standards, morals, rules etc. Whenever possible I will use burned media, flashcards, floppy emulators etc. to load games on my classic consoles and computers. I prefer the convenience and space savings these methods provide. I would rather use the space 100's of carts or floppies take up to use with my original HARDWARE. Besides, for the "TRUE COLLECTORS" of software / games look at it this way, for every cart / floppy / CD I don't buy that is another available to the people that enjoy the hunt.

Edited by OldSchoolRetroGamer, Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:02 PM.

[thegoldenband]

For some systems, having the trappings of the original packaging is a big deal. Intellivision is that way -- it's just not the same without the original overlays. And a lot of RPGs, simulations, and adventure games come with important materials that are intended to supplement play, whether it's part of the manual or an additional item like a map (which is important in Truckin' for Intellivision, BTW).

But IMHO, most optical-disc based systems don't really attach the same importance to the packaging, or have much of a "labor of love" thing going on with it. No doubt this is partly because of the medium's large capacity, so that you can put a lot of stuff on the disc that might otherwise have taken up too much ROM space. But it's also just that there was something kind of disposable and interchangeable about optical discs from the get-go, and their size and standardization encourage a cookie-cutter approach that makes BIN/CUE + PDF not too much of a loss.

Anyway, the best reason of all is that longboxes were a dumb idea.

[Austin]

thegoldenband, on Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:48 PM, said:

Anyway, the best reason of all is that longboxes were a dumb idea.

Especially the ones that are easily crushed!

[goldenegg]

Just to add something to the 3DO emulation discussion, FreeDO isn't the only option anymore. If you're interested at all in emulation, you should try out these two emulators:

Phoenix (not related to FreeDO Phoenix 2.1) - http://arts-union.my1.ru/
4DO - http://www.fourdo.com/

Both provide several benefits over FreeDO.

[Austin]

4DO is in a very, very early state right now and probably shouldn't even be included yet.

Phoenix though, interesting. They claim 60fps in every title. I might have to try it out just for grins.

[retrogamer73]

Wow this thread is getting a lot of attention, and agree with what a lot of people have been writing today. I like playing games on there actual consoles, emulators just don't feel right. I don't get why anyone would want to buy lots of 3DO games with long boxes just for the brag rights. When retro gaming has became somewhat of a fad to people, and when resellers are starting to notice and sell more video games, making the already not so cheap prices of 3DO games go up even more. Thinking about it, burning a 3DO game onto disc doesn't seem any worse than a flashcart. Think about it, your playing a game on it's original system, but not the original copy.

Edited by retrogamer73, Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:04 PM.

[Eltigro]

I don't know why everyone is talking about this being illegal.

A little lighter fluid, some matches... as long as you don't destroy anyone else's property when you're burning your 3DO disks, it should be perfectly legal.

Unless there's a burning ban because of drought or there is some kind of issue with harmful chemicals released when the plastic melts/burns.

What? Oh... I see... never mind... yeah, that's probably illegal.

[Hatta]

retrogamer73, on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:02 PM, said:

Thinking about it, burning a 3DO game onto disc doesn't seem any worse than a flashcart.

Legally, they're exactly the same. Both burning ISOs to CDs and burning ROMs to flash carts involves making a copy. That copy can only be made legally with the permission of the copyright holder, or under the exemption I quoted from the law above.

[jblenkle]

This is good to know...I never could get FreeDO to work correctly...I'll have to give these other two a try.

goldenegg, on Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:08 PM, said:

Just to add something to the 3DO emulation discussion, FreeDO isn't the only option anymore. If you're interested at all in emulation, you should try out these two emulators:

Phoenix (not related to FreeDO Phoenix 2.1) - http://arts-union.my1.ru/
4DO - http://www.fourdo.com/

Both provide several benefits over FreeDO.

[StoneAgeGamer]

I am not sure why this confuses so many people. Just because something isn't made anymore does not mean the copyright is some how voided.

That being said the only people that are possibly being hurt by doing this are retro gaming retailers because they are really the only ones making money off this stuff anymore. However, really that is so minimal its not really any concern. Being a retailer though I don't personally care. I really like how many different ways there are to enjoy retro games today and I think its great for the hobby. Original hardware, clone hardware, original carts, flash carts, multi-carts, emulators, Xbox Live/PSN/VC, etc. Honestly I sell more used games since I started selling EverDrives than I ever did before.

The only other argument I could see is that some of these games are still sold via other means like Live, PSN, and VC. However using a Flash Cart/burning a CD and acquiring the original hardware is hardly a cost effective alternative even if you get the game for free.

We have established that it is technically is illegal, but will you lose sleep at night? Probably not. Will the cops be knocking on your door? No. The only way you may get in trouble is if you make illegal copies and sell them, but really even this is not a huge concern to many of these companies anymore. I mean there are companies that make reproduction cartridges, which is essentially distributing someone else's copyrighted material for profit and I have never heard of any of them getting in any trouble. The money on these abandoned systems has already been made and lawyers are expensive. These gaming companies have their hands full with enough piracy with games that they still make money off to concern themselves with someone burning a 3DO game.

[SoulBlazer]

As much as I hated doing it, a burned copy of the game was the only way I was able to enjoy one of the best games of all time -- Snatcher for the Sega CD. Once I sold the Sega CD though I destroyed the copy.

[retrogamer73]

SoulBlazer, on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:42 PM, said:

As much as I hated doing it, a burned copy of the game was the only way I was able to enjoy one of the best games of all time -- Snatcher for the Sega CD. Once I sold the Sega CD though I destroyed the copy.

Atleast you didn't have to cough up like $150 for the game. Anyone else think the guy on the cover of the american version looks sorta like John Walsh from America's Most Wanted?

[Rex Dart]