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How SPS helps you to preserve your original disks

preservation

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#26 Farb OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:22 PM

View PostHarry1968, on Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:20 PM, said:

I have imaged and submitted my disks:

How did you submit? I opened a ticket on the SPS website (and contacted them through AtariAge) and have heard nothing back.

Edited by Farb, Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:23 PM.


#27 Harry1968 OFFLINE  

Harry1968

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Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:48 PM

I have still a login to their ftp-server since my Amiga submissions.
I have sent them a ticket about submission too.
Reaction to a ticket may take up to a month, unfortunately.

#28 ijor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:44 PM

View Postfiath, on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:42 PM, said:

View PostFarb, on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:02 AM, said:

The command line I'm using is:
dtc -ffilename-stream -g0 -k2 -i0 -ffilename-raw -g0 -k2 -i2

BTW, if you specify the image type for this (-i3a) you'll get error checking, and it will retry any tracks with errors.

I'm not sure this is a so good idea at all.

As we talked several times on the forum, many original disks (especially, but not only, Synapse releases) are too fragile. Attempting to image many original disks blindly, with default retry strategy, is very risky. Many disks would be damaged that way, and many more dumps would be bad (as a consequence of the drive becoming too dirty after imaging a physically damaged disk).

View PostFarb, on Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:30 PM, said:

View PostF#READY, on Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:07 PM, said:

I can imagine that we eventually will extract other image formats from this (e.g. PRO, VAPI or ATP).
... 1) There are a limited number of people that can convert a stream dump to IPF.

Then let's have a public dumps repository. In addition (or instead) to submit the dumps to SPS, let's have them in a public place. Then anybody would be able to extract and/or convert the low level dumps to whatever format.

View PostDefender II, on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:35 AM, said:

My concern is that the drives they are using to backup DSDD disks are DSHD. Copying the data off is fine, but writing them for use on SD or DD drives can cause problems.
Has anyone modified a DSDD drive for writing the data back to new disks?

It is much better to write back on a DD drive. But you don't need to modify a DD drive for writing back (you can even read the flippy side without modifying the drive).

View PostDefender II, on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:24 PM, said:

View PostF#READY, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:07 PM, said:

Now I'm considering the 'reed contact with magnet' modification to do flippy disks.Anyone tried this?
I don't think they (SPS) want that (the 'reed contact with magnet' modification) for original manufacture disks, because they want exact images of the whole disk.

For most cases you can get an image as exact with either method. They won't be "more exact" in a modified drive.

#29 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:11 AM

I have all my Atari Disks imaged exept for a couple there mostly Basic games and Public Domain stuff ..

#30 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:46 AM

oh also I never had a problem w Reading a Atari Disc even after 26 years but I have kept Really Good Care of my disks and KEEP them away from SPEAKERS AND MAGNETS I also did back up all 120 disks using ape shareware and a SIO cable I had hooked to my LAPTOP..
I did share the PUBLIC Domain disks of the month from
SPACE(St. Paul Atari Computer Enthusiasts). Group
Disks of the month I put on AtariAge as txt files just rename them to .atr files and enjoy The Real reason I shared the disks was I always loved the Christmas tree files.
here is the link
http://www.atariage....i-images-found/
most of the disks are my basic ones.
if you find the locked disk just use
s
the full password proteced dir.bas witch is menu.bas from eugene origon menu.bas modified just use the full password as follows
s
a
then -=*+ then push atari symbol then +=-* then push atari symbol again and push /
then push start button to load dir.bas witch is a menu file..
on emulator just load a basic disk w menu.bas then once menu is loaded push 0 to reload dir
then swap disks using emulation change disk option and put the locked disk password protected disk in and just read dir pushing 0
all the password protection is is a basic file i wrote along time ago thinking someone would want a KIOSK file for a museum or something public to use as a menu to logon and load menu to load files but never got around to implimenting it But i did get the sio to rs232 cable working w shareware APE DEMO using a file called ULTRA COPY II I dont know where it came from as my dad got a lot of atari files for helping someone copy a eeprom of a disk drive bios chip..
I did however get a RARE version of Blackjack from the Programmer who programed it himself and he said I could keep my copy!! I also got mydos from him to I dont know weather he wrote my dos but I know he made yhatzee and Blackjack files witch I like..
I also got from my dad when he made a Altair 8800 witch I helped wirewrap from scratch he made a nother one using a back plane board socket and a wood box he made a disk box atari disk drive emulation computer that emulated a Atari 810 disk drive!! it had two tandem flip open drives and a loader cpm disk that loaded the software to run the emulation then he made a ribbon cable to sio to the disk box connector he soldered to the Atari800 and it was cool I had this huge box that emulated two atari disk drives and I could make back up disks of my own software in a snap..
I was mad when he sold the original Altair 8800 and he sold a cpu or memmory pcb from the Disk box and Now it sits in the basement of my dads house not working..
I do still have my original 810 disk drive and it still works great ALTHOUGH once I had to repair it my self One day I was trying to load Frogger disk witch boots automaticly w out basic and then runs the 5200 version of frogger as I have the cassette tape but thats a whole nother story anyway the thing kept making this super loud fart noise it was a drive mech noise not a TV speaker load fart noise but a super loud head lost noise so i ripped it apart all the way to not having a cover case at all ! cause this way I could push on the mech now when it was trying to go out it really wanted to move in so i figured out when it was pushing against my finger trying to go twords my finger more then it really wanted to go away from my finger so fighting the drive mech stepper motor mech i pushed it in against its will and viola BEEP a INFAMUS ATARI LOAD NOISE came from the TV speaker I was like cool awesome I just fixed my own Atari 810 drive with out having to have it serviced then I noticed ok now that i got it to work how to adust it I found the nessisary allen wrench or tork I cant remember I did find the right one to FIT and unpowered when i got that next beep and said ok it went this way so it needs to go that way so i moved the head back where i had pushed it in the middle of where i had pushed it and where it wanted to go so that it was between the both points of it pushing it the wrong way and how mutch i had to force it to beep a nother load bit.. this worked and after finding the best posistion needed to calibrate the head pos I found it good thing the atari beeps every load bit. and that frogger was not encrypted to go from one sector to a nother way on the other side of the disk and back again as I was lucky for that anyway after I calibrated it it seemed to work ever since.
I did this ONCE on a IBM MS MACHINE once and got a floppy to read after lossening the head mech I will NEVER do that again dumb idea although i was able to get it working again using a dos 1 disk I was not worth it alghouth i did it just to see if i could and I could but its sutch a pain I wont do that again .. I never had to align a IBM/ms dos floppy ever I did have to adjust a 5¼ disc drive once cause it was dirty and had not been used for 20 years but it worked I will say laoding atari disks is easyer than loading dos disks cause you can HEAR the bits loading..
also I noticed on the emulation if you dont run as fast as possible and remove a usb stick when loading it stops the same as on atari and farts load error!!! I never got it to successfuly reload on emultion EXEPT when using REAL ATARI 810 hardware w sio cable then it farts and will continue loading!!>..
Good luck recovering youre Atari TO sio Images and enjoy the chirstmas tree and the other PUBLIC Domain games..
DUEL uses two joysticks and basic and is artillery battle where two players take turns firing shell missiles using velocity and angle
the other game is one i typed in from magizine and modified to show glactic score on screen .
then there is FILLER UP one of the Funnest PUBLIC DOMAIN games ever written its way more fun than QIX where it got its roots from but is faster paced and way more fun.
there is a MACHINE LANGUAGE VERSION AND BASIC ONE the basic one is better cause there is no sparks to come down the lines to get you ..
then there is horse race and goblins takes forever to load cause goblins uses special charactor set witch is loaded into the machine language from DAT files and changes the special control shift charactors to look like goblins or horses depending on the game loaded the goblin game is cool once it loads..
then there is a machine lang basic missile command type game witch is fun too ..
also there is some FIXDMP files I got from when my dad made the disk emulation box from Atari Them selfs I got Internal OS+a utilitys like fixdmp witch dumps files to screen using hex editor I once changed dkong to say aw instead of dkong by changing bit by bit on the file listing it was cool takes a long time also you can use fixdmp utility disk to undelete deleted files if the disk has not overwritten the file..
I will repost links to disks of the month and the fixdmp file if i can find the image.

#31 awace OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:06 AM

I also am talking about 800 atari disks not ST disks I hope this is the right place to talk about Atari 800 810 images.. My images are in ATR format but you have to rename the .txt file from .txt to .atr as Atariage wont let you upload .atr files I did however get the christmas images loaded two years ago just in time for chirstmas..
the christmas tree was re written to have attract mode to look cooler and have MORE colors..To the BLINKer BULBS.. on the
Virtual Tree..
also there is a SNOOPY disk in there somewhere in witch snoopy is sleeping in a snow storm on his house..
I almost forgot to mention that if you have a atari basic file in witch if you have dos and dup loaded and want to load youre special basic program or basic
game automaticly just rename the file from example..........
ATARIMENU.bas,AUTORUN.SYS then it will load automaticly load autorun.sys
I treid it with any cart TYPE .com file and it worked too!!!!!!

Edited by awace, Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:09 AM.


#32 Defender II OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:15 PM

View Postijor, on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:44 PM, said:

View PostDefender II, on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:35 AM, said:

My concern is that the drives they are using to backup DSDD disks are DSHD. Copying the data off is fine, but writing them for use on SD or DD drives can cause problems.
Has anyone modified a DSDD drive for writing the data back to new disks?

It is much better to write back on a DD drive. But you don't need to modify a DD drive for writing back (you can even read the flippy side without modifying the drive).

View PostDefender II, on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:24 PM, said:

I don't think they (SPS) want that (the 'reed contact with magnet' modification) for original manufacture disks, because they want exact images of the whole disk.

For most cases you can get an image as exact with either method. They won't be "more exact" in a modified drive.

Acording to their documentation, they (SPS) want the total disk imaged including the mass production info on the outer edges in one pass (front and back) which can't be read without a modified drive. The modified drive allows you to read the outer tracks on the opposite dide of the disk without flipping it over so you can get a complete image of both sides of the disk at once in the format SPS wants. They don't want one side of a two-sided disk imaged at a time. So, a modified drive will produce a "more exact" copy. Since you used the modifer "For most cases" that would only apply to personal or small run disks, not mass production disks. You can image any personally produced disks with a standard drive because they don't contain the mass production info.

#33 ijor OFFLINE  

ijor

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Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:27 PM

View PostDefender II, on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:15 PM, said:

Acording to their documentation, they (SPS) want the total disk imaged including the mass production info on the outer edges in one pass (front and back) which can't be read without a modified drive.

I think you got things backwards. The duplicator signature (or mass production info) is present on the inner tracks, not on the outer tracks. And a normal drive has no problems reading the inner tracks.

The duplicator info is usually located, if present at all, on track 40 (the 41th track when you count starting from 0) which means track 80 on an 80-tracks drive. You don't need to modify the drive to access these tracks, not for the front neither for the back side. Here is a partial ASCII dump of the duplicator info taken from both sides of one disk. I read them in a single pass, without flipping, using an unmodified drive:

Track 40 (80), front side:
DUP F 1*18*128 40T EA ILOCK TR2

Track 40 (80), back side:
DUP FM N/FC 1*18*128 40T SIDE B

Quote

The modified drive allows you to read the outer tracks on the opposite dide of the disk without flipping it over so you can get a complete image of both sides of the disk at once in the format SPS wants. They don't want one side of a two-sided disk imaged at a time. So, a modified drive will produce a "more exact" copy.

I agree that a modified "single pass" drive is cool and very convenient. But that doesn't make it more exact. There is nothing that is more exact just by the fact that you read them in two passes or a single one.

Quote

Since you used the modifer "For most cases" that would only apply to personal or small run disks, not mass production disks. You can image any personally produced disks with a standard drive because they don't contain the mass production info.

No, when I said "most cases", I meant for most original disks. Once again, you do can read the duplicator info with a regular drive. Furthermore, most Atari 8-bit original disks don't have any duplicator info whatsoever.

#34 Farb OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:29 PM

I managed to get two Panasonic floppy drives that I'm going to modify for flippy imaging. I've just re-watched the youtube video on how to do it... I had forgotten that it looked like a PITA :-)

#35 Defender II OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM

View PostFarb, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:29 PM, said:

I managed to get two Panasonic floppy drives that I'm going to modify for flippy imaging. I've just re-watched the youtube video on how to do it... I had forgotten that it looked like a PITA :-)

Are they the same model in the video?
Do you mind giving up your source?
Do they have more?
Price?
I really want to get one so I can image my disks.
Thanks.

#36 Farb OFFLINE  

Farb

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Posted Thu Feb 2, 2012 11:51 PM

View PostDefender II, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM, said:

Are they the same model in the video?

One is a JU-475-4 and the other is a JU-475-5 (the one used in the video). I am doing the -4 before touching the -5 :-)

View PostDefender II, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM, said:

Do you mind giving up your source?

There's nothing secret... just eBay.

View PostDefender II, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM, said:

Do they have more?

There is a JU-475-5 up there right now.

View PostDefender II, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM, said:

Price?

I paid around $30 each shipped.

View PostDefender II, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM, said:

I really want to get one so I can image my disks.

If you aren't able to get one, let me know and we can work something out to get your disks imaged once I get my setup working.

Edited by Farb, Thu Feb 2, 2012 11:52 PM.


#37 Farb OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012 5:41 PM

I've completed the mods to the JU-475-4 and, unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work. I've posted to the Kryoflux forum to see if they might have some troubleshooting tips.

#38 Farb OFFLINE  

Farb

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Posted Sun Feb 5, 2012 2:15 PM

Success! I've imaged my first flippy disk!

One thing I discovered from the Kryoflux guys is that the current Mac version of their software doesn't support flippy imaging. You have to use the latest Windows or Linux version.

Edited by Farb, Sun Feb 5, 2012 2:34 PM.


#39 Farb OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 8:48 PM

Oh, and here's the command-line I'm using for flippy imaging:

dtc -ftrack-stream -g2 -y -b-8 -k2 -i0 -ftrack-raw -g2 -y -b-8 -k2 -i2 -fdisk.xfd -g2 -y -b-8 -i3a


#40 malers OFFLINE  

malers

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:31 AM

Hello,

I am searching for somebody, who is able to modify my panasonic JU 475-5 drive in order to support flippy disks according to the video-tutorials on youtube.
Of course, I ll pay well for all efforts.

Thanks in advance
Michael




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