108 replies to this topic

[carmel_andrews]

how many cf slots will your hd interface have....might be an idea to have more then one or an adapter so that you can add another cf slot....so you can easily copy data from one cf card to another (usefull if one cf card is corrupt or got dodgy sectors)

Or if you will only have on cf slot in the hdd interface, can you daisychain the hdd interface (like you can with sio devices) so to have multiple cf slots and copy/move data or files between them

[bob1200xl]

If you digitize the output and store the whole frame, you can read it out at any rate you want, can't you? The problem with regular VGA converters is the digitizing process itself. They have to work with an analog signal of unknown character, where we can pull out a digital value of known validity.

I'm still working on the CPU hardware. When it is time for video, maybe you can point me to some of these HDMI encoders.

Bob

candle, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:12 PM, said:

ntsc is simple, pal is not
not because of colour encoding, and artifacting, but because 50hz vertical frame rate
this is allright for component, or 720p, but not for majority of vga monitors

hdmi chips (tmds encoders) are dime and dozen

[bob1200xl]

Look at the photograph in message #35. Two slots. These are not master/slave ports, but true independent PBI devices. You can then have one, two or no CF cards inserted, in any configuration. From a practical standpoint, neither slot has to be an IDE device, really. The card that plugs into the GTIA has very little logic on it and could be easily modified to make a printer port, an SD card, a serial port, or ? (USB?) All the heavy lifting is done in the CPU card.

Bob

carmel_andrews, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:57 AM, said:

how many cf slots will your hd interface have....might be an idea to have more then one or an adapter so that you can add another cf slot....so you can easily copy data from one cf card to another (usefull if one cf card is corrupt or got dodgy sectors)

Or if you will only have on cf slot in the hdd interface, can you daisychain the hdd interface (like you can with sio devices) so to have multiple cf slots and copy/move data or files between them

[Sean39]

Hi Everyone
First off What computer are we trying to set a hard drive on ? Now are we trying to make a CF drive or SD drive. Has anyone thought about trying to set
up a USB port on the computers. flash drives are so easy to get now. With 16GB being sold in most stores this would give more space than any Atari user
may ever need.

Anyways I am a retired electronic Engineer. I use to work for Raytheon and Advance Technology research Labs for NASA. Anyways what kind of problems
are being ran into. I use to keep the computers up and running for them. So I know programing and also the technical side as well. I would love to have a hard
drive set up for either my atari 800 or my Atari 130 XE computer.

I know Best Electronics has it already for the Falcon computer only,so if it possible on that computer it should be possible to do it on these 8 bit computers.
I am just not sure how far you guys are into this project yet. If you have something that works already or in the process of trying to get a hard drive
that is solid state.( not Mechanical like IDE drives). If you could get an IDE set up you could place a small drive into these computers that is similiar
to what is found in Laptops. There small drives that have 80GB,160GB, and even 350GB of space. The drives are thin and only measure 2.5 inches.

Anyways I would love to know how far you guys have come on this project.

Thanks
Sean

[rdea6]

Read the threads and use the search features and you can find a lot of new stuff.

[bob1200xl]

There are a number of ways that you can use a hard drive (CF card, etc.) on a 130XE, but no USB that I know of. Try an IDE+2.

The WIDE is functional with CF cards up to 8GB and is designed to be internally mounted in a stock 1200XL. With some mechanical adjustments, it will work in an 800XL or 600XL.

There are still a few unused pins on the logic controller and I am trying to get a feel for what I should add to the feature set. USB is a little too ambitious...

Bob

Sean39, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:40 PM, said:

Hi Everyone
First off What computer are we trying to set a hard drive on ? Now are we trying to make a CF drive or SD drive. Has anyone thought about trying to set
up a USB port on the computers. flash drives are so easy to get now. With 16GB being sold in most stores this would give more space than any Atari user
may ever need.

Anyways I am a retired electronic Engineer. I use to work for Raytheon and Advance Technology research Labs for NASA. Anyways what kind of problems
are being ran into. I use to keep the computers up and running for them. So I know programing and also the technical side as well. I would love to have a hard
drive set up for either my atari 800 or my Atari 130 XE computer.

I know Best Electronics has it already for the Falcon computer only,so if it possible on that computer it should be possible to do it on these 8 bit computers.
I am just not sure how far you guys are into this project yet. If you have something that works already or in the process of trying to get a hard drive
that is solid state.( not Mechanical like IDE drives). If you could get an IDE set up you could place a small drive into these computers that is similiar
to what is found in Laptops. There small drives that have 80GB,160GB, and even 350GB of space. The drives are thin and only measure 2.5 inches.

Anyways I would love to know how far you guys have come on this project.

Thanks
Sean

[venom4728a]

What are the limits of the additional features that can be added to this board? Like and SIO2PC, SIO2SD, extra ram, Serial and Parallel ports like a P:R: Connector?

Robert

[Sean39]

Hi Bob

Please fill me in. I knew at one time that the 130XE and the 800XL were not different from each other. I know the 800XL did not have some of the Chips
that the 130XE had but were real similiar. So can the CF card be mounted in the 130XE the same way as the 800XL?

I would be real interested in doing this type of set up. I have also been looking for a desk top type program to install on the 130XE if we can get
a CF drive going. I have a mint Condition 130XE still in the box ,and has never even been used. I did not want to do anything with it till I could
have some kind of hard drive storage for it. For now I just use my Atari 800 computer. It seems like no one uses that extra memory for anything
in the 130XE. I was told the extra memory might be handy for the Atari Word Writer 80 that on disk since it may add for more pages. I really do not
think that program could access it since I was told that you have to access that extra memory in 16K Blocks. Now the 800XL has 64K correct?
I never had the 800XL ,so I was told it had 64K of ram. Can that be access with out doing this 16K block type memory that has to be done
in the 130XE to get to the extra 64K of Ram it has.

If you know how to set up a CF card in the atari 130XE I would love to know how it is done. I have done Circuit Board Design,so it would not be
hard for me to build up a board to be installed into the 130XE.

I read this thread and really thought this is a great ideal to have storage this way in the computer instead of saving everything over to another computer
through a Sio port USB adapter. This is far better.to have a self contain storage device in the Atari computers.

Now Best Electronic already has a CF card for the Atari Falcon Computers they are selling. They know about this Ideal we are talking about since it
was mention to me in the last couple of days.


So what problems are being ran into? I read where someone was using a battery to keep the memory up,but when it dies everything else you have stored
go away also. Or did I read that wrong Bob. Anyways I really want to help with this.

If the problem is the battery going dead. How about this for a solution. Is there a way to install a circuit that can detect when the battery is getting low,and switch
over to a second battery. Then have a circuit that lights up a LED to let you know the first battery needs to be changed. This way what is stored never
gets lost. You would have to have a second battery,but it would keep you from loosing the memory. Now there is another alternative. Same circuit that detects
the battery going low could turn on a circuit that comes off the main power supply in the computer to charge the battery from going dead.

I read in the beging of this thread how someone was doing it with a battery. The battery ideal is good if you can either have a circuit to change over to
an alternate battery till the main battery is changed. Or have that same circiut Charge the battery from the main power supply from the computer.

I do not know if I am getting off track but I did see someone wrote in the beginning of this thread that they had been storing on a CF card
using a battery circuit.

Anyways this sound really cool and I would love to help.

Thanks
Sean

[Sean39]

Hi Bob

I goofed on one of my statements..

This one as follows


I knew at one time that the 130XE and the 800XL were not different from each other..

I meant to say they were not that much different. The reason Why I went the 130XE over the 800XL was it had a couple of chips not in the 800XL.

Most the 800XL have the Second basic Chip Rev B and not the REV C that had all the bugs work out in the Basic. That really not the main reason either.

Ok now I remember that the regular 800XL did not come with the Freddie Chip that managed the memory ,and it did not come with the REV. C Basic

Now if you managed to get the 800XLF you got the Freddie MMU Chip and the Rev C Basic. I looked everywhere for a 800XLF with the Rev .C basic.

Never found one for sale. I read they sold the 800XLF for a shortime in Europe and then discontinue them.

I thought this would come in handy on the 130 XE but never found anything I could hook up to it.

Atari 130XE's (both US and European) all had an ECI (Enhanced Cartridge Interface) which was functionally equivalent to the previous Atari XL PBI and allowed devices such as SCSI hard drive controllers, parallel/serial controllers and many other powerful devices to be attached to the XE system. While Atari itself never sold any ECI devices, several 3rd Party companies such an ICD, CSS and Supra sold expansion peripherals for use with the ECI/PBI ports.

Anyways I still have a very nice in the box Mint Condition never used at all Atari 130XE. I really wanted to set it up with some kind of hard drive storage before
I really got into doing anything with it.

This CF card set up sounds like what I have been waiting for.

Thanks
sean

[candle]

visual aid...






and there is Bob's WIDE - no, it has no problems on its own, but he has some space inside CPLD chip he might use for some good, if there will be any suggestions

[bob1200xl]

Let me talk about batteries, first. I have had a couple of battery-backed systems that have been running for at least 10 years, one is a memory expansion and the other is a CF card. If you are using the ramdisk as permanent storage (like I was), you do have to be careful about battery life. Allowing the battery to go dead will require you to restore from backup, so I usually just keep DOS and temporary files on the SRAM. Even still, you only need to change batteries every five years or so...

The CF controller uses battery-backed SRAM to maintain the OS, internal cart, PBI code and disk configurations, all of which are either static or held in files or both. It is a simple matter to restore this data if the battery goes dead. In fact, all the data (with the possible exception of the PBI code) is loadable from the CF card whenever you want to change your system components. (new OS, different cart, disk configs, etc.) Each CF card keeps this data (256 disk configs, 4 OSs, 4 internal carts) in the hardware segment of the card (first 1024 sectors), so you can customize the footprint of your system according to the card's application when you boot. An unlimited number of setup files may be stored on the card as files, of course, but then you have to bring up DOS.

Takes 1 minute to re-load it all. Less, if you need that capability on a regular basis...

As for 130XEs, the functionality is there, but mechanical restrictions are severe. One of my goals was to make WIDE truly a drop-in. You remove a bunch of chips and plug in WIDE - off you go. On a 1200XL, it works just fine. On a 600XL, there are some changes that need to be made in the board layout, but the basic design is OK. On an 800XL, you need to find one with sockets - not just for the CPU and GTIA, but all the chips. (I pull all the non-essential chips to save power) The 600XL and the 800XL don't look like they have enough room for the CF card adaptor internally, but maybe someone can get on to fit.

The 130XE would be a major project to mount WIDE and a special circuit would be required that 'talks Freddie', I expect.

Bob

Sean39, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:09 AM, said:

Hi Bob

Please fill me in. I knew at one time that the 130XE and the 800XL were not different from each other. I know the 800XL did not have some of the Chips
that the 130XE had but were real similiar. So can the CF card be mounted in the 130XE the same way as the 800XL?

I would be real interested in doing this type of set up. I have also been looking for a desk top type program to install on the 130XE if we can get
a CF drive going. I have a mint Condition 130XE still in the box ,and has never even been used. I did not want to do anything with it till I could
have some kind of hard drive storage for it. For now I just use my Atari 800 computer. It seems like no one uses that extra memory for anything
in the 130XE. I was told the extra memory might be handy for the Atari Word Writer 80 that on disk since it may add for more pages. I really do not
think that program could access it since I was told that you have to access that extra memory in 16K Blocks. Now the 800XL has 64K correct?
I never had the 800XL ,so I was told it had 64K of ram. Can that be access with out doing this 16K block type memory that has to be done
in the 130XE to get to the extra 64K of Ram it has.

If you know how to set up a CF card in the atari 130XE I would love to know how it is done. I have done Circuit Board Design,so it would not be
hard for me to build up a board to be installed into the 130XE.

I read this thread and really thought this is a great ideal to have storage this way in the computer instead of saving everything over to another computer
through a Sio port USB adapter. This is far better.to have a self contain storage device in the Atari computers.

Now Best Electronic already has a CF card for the Atari Falcon Computers they are selling. They know about this Ideal we are talking about since it
was mention to me in the last couple of days.


So what problems are being ran into? I read where someone was using a battery to keep the memory up,but when it dies everything else you have stored
go away also. Or did I read that wrong Bob. Anyways I really want to help with this.

If the problem is the battery going dead. How about this for a solution. Is there a way to install a circuit that can detect when the battery is getting low,and switch
over to a second battery. Then have a circuit that lights up a LED to let you know the first battery needs to be changed. This way what is stored never
gets lost. You would have to have a second battery,but it would keep you from loosing the memory. Now there is another alternative. Same circuit that detects
the battery going low could turn on a circuit that comes off the main power supply in the computer to charge the battery from going dead.

I read in the beging of this thread how someone was doing it with a battery. The battery ideal is good if you can either have a circuit to change over to
an alternate battery till the main battery is changed. Or have that same circiut Charge the battery from the main power supply from the computer.

I do not know if I am getting off track but I did see someone wrote in the beginning of this thread that they had been storing on a CF card
using a battery circuit.

Anyways this sound really cool and I would love to help.

Thanks
Sean

[falcon_]

bob1200xl, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:10 PM, said:

It's going to like what you want - so, tell me what you want!

Basic function is to convert the Atari video to component output. You will lose artifacting, unless someone has a bright idea?

But, that's for later... I just allowed for it in the WIDE hardware.

Bob

Interesting! What I want?? I want that good ole Atari Magic
Then what scale of possibility are we talking about here? Can you make a full cpld video processor
chip, or just tweak or alter the standard GTIA?? I bet the community would be more happy with
a hybrid approach, as would I. Using the original HW to the max, and 'improving it' to make that
small leap for atarikind....

falcon_

[bob1200xl]

No, I can't make a video processor. Get a VBXE.

We might be able to process the Atari frames, though - get some better stuff out of the old system.

But, I'm doing the CF card and CPU, now...

Bob

falcon_, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM, said:

bob1200xl, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:10 PM, said:

It's going to like what you want - so, tell me what you want!

Basic function is to convert the Atari video to component output. You will lose artifacting, unless someone has a bright idea?

But, that's for later... I just allowed for it in the WIDE hardware.

Bob

Interesting! What I want?? I want that good ole Atari Magic
Then what scale of possibility are we talking about here? Can you make a full cpld video processor
chip, or just tweak or alter the standard GTIA?? I bet the community would be more happy with
a hybrid approach, as would I. Using the original HW to the max, and 'improving it' to make that
small leap for atarikind....

falcon_

[falcon_]

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:00 PM, said:

No, I can't make a video processor. Get a VBXE.

Um, I see...

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:00 PM, said:

We might be able to process the Atari frames, though - get some better stuff out of the old system.

But, I'm doing the CF card and CPU, now...

Bob

What do you mean by 'CPU'?? Is it some cpu-core in the circuitry?

You said to tell you what I/we want. Can I inquire to the type of possibility
we are thinking about here? What _can_ I suggest??

thanks!
falcon_

falcon_, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM, said:

bob1200xl, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:10 PM, said:

It's going to like what you want - so, tell me what you want!

Basic function is to convert the Atari video to component output. You will lose artifacting, unless someone has a bright idea?

But, that's for later... I just allowed for it in the WIDE hardware.

Bob


Interesting! What I want?? I want that good ole Atari Magic
Then what scale of possibility are we talking about here? Can you make a full cpld video processor
chip, or just tweak or alter the standard GTIA?? I bet the community would be more happy with
a hybrid approach, as would I. Using the original HW to the max, and 'improving it' to make that
small leap for atarikind....

falcon_

[bob1200xl]

Some features would require lots and lots of hardware - some would not. Most all of them would require a big piece of code. I can do the hardware for a lot of this, but not the code.

SIO2PC + SIO2SD - we have a solution for this. What would incorporating it internally do for us?

Extra RAM - how much and how would you want to access it? I plan on 512K-1MB of linear SRAM on a 65816. I may be able to make a 512K RAMBO/XE style upgrade, also. How hard should I try?

Serial and Parallel ports - again, we have them now. What would we gain by integrating them into this hack?

I will exclude video enhancements for now, but there will be an interface for them in WIDE. Other ideas, like USB, may be done in hardware, but someone else will have to code it.

I don't know the limits... This is Blue Sky stuff.

Bob

venom4728a, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:42 PM, said:

What are the limits of the additional features that can be added to this board? Like and SIO2PC, SIO2SD, extra ram, Serial and Parallel ports like a P:R: Connector?

Robert

[bob1200xl]

The 6502 IC is replaced by a 65816 IC. No core stuff here... We have the ability to decode the address buss and act on it in real time. We can latch the data being passed in the system and act on it. We control all the functions of the MMU chip, so when you power on, for example, the internal and external carts are disabled and a special BOOT cart takes over the system. You can then select the stock 1200XL OS (no internal cart and no PBI - good for recovery when you do something to your code). All the OS code, internal carts, and PBI code is kept in protected SRAM that can loaded from DOS or m/l directly from the CF card.

I don't want to limit the scope of suggestions, but many of them are outside the limits of WIDE. Even still, something may follow WIDE that has enough reach. Don't be shy...

I do appreciate the comments!

Bob

falcon_, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:49 PM, said:

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:00 PM, said:

No, I can't make a video processor. Get a VBXE.

Um, I see...

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:00 PM, said:

We might be able to process the Atari frames, though - get some better stuff out of the old system.

But, I'm doing the CF card and CPU, now...

Bob

What do you mean by 'CPU'?? Is it some cpu-core in the circuitry?

You said to tell you what I/we want. Can I inquire to the type of possibility
we are thinking about here? What _can_ I suggest??

thanks!
falcon_

falcon_, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM, said:

bob1200xl, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:10 PM, said:

It's going to like what you want - so, tell me what you want!

Basic function is to convert the Atari video to component output. You will lose artifacting, unless someone has a bright idea?

But, that's for later... I just allowed for it in the WIDE hardware.

Bob


Interesting! What I want?? I want that good ole Atari Magic
Then what scale of possibility are we talking about here? Can you make a full cpld video processor
chip, or just tweak or alter the standard GTIA?? I bet the community would be more happy with
a hybrid approach, as would I. Using the original HW to the max, and 'improving it' to make that
small leap for atarikind....

falcon_

[Larry]

(IMO) Real hard!

If you use SDX, then you "need" more than 64K in order to run Turbo Basic XL or Basic XE's extensions. (I presume this is still true with the newer releases.) If you use other Dos'es that support a ramdisk, then it is very useful when using a language cart. Look at the list of programs that make use of >64K.

If you end up supporting only linear memory, you toss quite a few programs into the "incompatible" or "crippled" camp.

Linear ram is for new stuff, XE memory is for legacy.

-Larry

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:26 PM, said:

(snip...)
Extra RAM - how much and how would you want to access it? I plan on 512K-1MB of linear SRAM on a 65816. I may be able to make a 512K RAMBO/XE style upgrade, also. How hard should I try?

Bob

[bob1200xl]

So, I take it that you are interested in a RAMBO/XE in WIDE?

I'll put that on the List. Can we just limit it to 256K? (a 320K system)

Bob

Larry, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:05 PM, said:

(IMO) Real hard!

If you use SDX, then you "need" more than 64K in order to run Turbo Basic XL or Basic XE's extensions. (I presume this is still true with the newer releases.) If you use other Dos'es that support a ramdisk, then it is very useful when using a language cart. Look at the list of programs that make use of >64K.

If you end up supporting only linear memory, you toss quite a few programs into the "incompatible" or "crippled" camp.

Linear ram is for new stuff, XE memory is for legacy.

-Larry

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:26 PM, said:

(snip...)
Extra RAM - how much and how would you want to access it? I plan on 512K-1MB of linear SRAM on a 65816. I may be able to make a 512K RAMBO/XE style upgrade, also. How hard should I try?

Bob

[Sean39]

Hi Bob

That is a question I have for you. I realize that the 130XE has the ECI port which I guess nothing was ever done with that port. Now on expanding the memory in
the 130XE I was told you mess up the extra 64K that loaded in 16K blocks. Ok If you do expand the 130XE to 320K of ram what happens.
Is that ram no longer load in 16K Blocks? or do you just have direct access to that new memory without having to load it up in 16K portions.

I have been wanting to expand that memory out to 320K of ram. I was told you could even do 1 meg ,but was not sure to the truth of that.

I am more interested in the CF PBI hard drive you are working on. So you have this working already. IF so how do you do this?

I would love to build a circuit board up to add this into my computer. Here are some photos of my 130XE they did not come out that good.

This computer has never been used,so when I do go to make these change I want them right. I really want this PBI HDD in my computer.

Hi BOB if you click on the pictures you will see the computer is still in the plastic.








Thanks
Sean

Edited by Sean39, Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:49 PM.

[Larry]

Yes, WIDE + RAMBO would be great. 256K would be most excellent.
-Larry

bob1200xl, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:30 PM, said:

So, I take it that you are interested in a RAMBO/XE in WIDE?

I'll put that on the List. Can we just limit it to 256K? (a 320K system)

Bob

[flashjazzcat]

Sean39, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:25 PM, said:

Hi BOB if you click on the pictures you will see the computer is still in the plastic.

Very, very nice.

[bob1200xl]

Wide will not interface with the ECI port.

I do not know of anything that will plug into the ECI and give you CF/HDD and RAMBO/XE functions. It could be done, just hasn't.

Additional memory is normally accesses in 16K blocks. The other option is to use a 65816 and access >64K with its added instructions. Again, this could be done internally on a 130XE, but not with WIDE.

Nice system... better to keep it stock?

Bob

Sean39, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:25 PM, said:

Hi Bob

That is a question I have for you. I realize that the 130XE has the ECI port which I guess nothing was ever done with that port. Now on expanding the memory in
the 130XE I was told you mess up the extra 64K that loaded in 16K blocks. Ok If you do expand the 130XE to 320K of ram what happens.
Is that ram no longer load in 16K Blocks? or do you just have direct access to that new memory without having to load it up in 16K portions.

I have been wanting to expand that memory out to 320K of ram. I was told you could even do 1 meg ,but was not sure to the truth of that.

I am more interested in the CF PBI hard drive you are working on. So you have this working already. IF so how do you do this?

I would love to build a circuit board up to add this into my computer. Here are some photos of my 130XE they did not come out that good.

This computer has never been used,so when I do go to make these change I want them right. I really want this PBI HDD in my computer.

Hi BOB if you click on the pictures you will see the computer is still in the plastic.

IMG_0214.JPG IMG_0215.JPG IMG_0216.JPG


IMG_0217.JPG IMG_0219.JPG IMG_0218.JPG



Thanks
Sean

[Sean39]

Hi FlashJazzcat

I notice in your picture you have displayed next to your name looks like a Desk top. Is there a Desk top program I can get for the 130XE computer,or
the Atari 800 computer??? If so where can I get a copy of the Desktop program?

Thanks
Sean

Edited by Sean39, Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:10 PM.

[flashjazzcat]

Sean39, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:09 PM, said:

I notice in your picture you have displayed next to your name looks like a Desk top. Is there a Desk top program I can get for the 130XE computer,or
the Atari 800 computer??? If so where can I get a copy of the Desktop program?

The avatar pic is an exercise in wishful thinking, in as much as it's a screenshot from an early demo of a GUI I'm working on. Progress is slooooooowwwwww! However, it'll blow your mind when it's finished. Click on the grey line in my sig if you wish to read more...

There are lots of working desktop-type programs for the A8, though: TRS Desktop, ATOS, Boss-XE to name but three. You might want to try Diamond by Alan Reeve, too, which has just been patched to work with SpartaDOS X.

[Sean39]

Hi Bob Ok i did know you can load 16K Bocks from the memory I have now. So let me understand this. Going Wide is expanding the memory above the 130K that in the computer. I figure it standard Ram of 128 K correct.. 64k in the lower part of memory and the upper memory is also 64K but has to be loaded in 16k blocks. Anyways if I take out the memory and expand it like to 320K then the loading in 16K blocks goes away. So how do you do the memory if you do expand up to 320K mamory, or even 256K memory like lary was talking about. No one ever made that very clear to me. I am use to the older computer where if you did add memory you did not have to load it in 16K blocks. Now I am really confused because Best Electronics say if I expand it above what it is now that the programs that access that extra memory will not do it because I cahnge the way the atari 130 XE was set up to work correctly. Please can some one make this clear to me what happens after you expand the memory above 128K memory. I know that the computer claims 131K of memory on the front of the box. Still if the computer has 64K accessable in the lower regular memory and 64K in the upper memory that can only be access by loading it in by 16K blocks . Well the computer really only has 128 of RAM Unless they are talking about some kind of Video memory that brings it up to the 131K. I have been programing computers since 1976, and building them also. When the military was using real to real tapes. All transistor and some TTL chips with individual gates in them. Anyways I figure that Atari had to do something different to get past the 64K of ram. Reason being I thought originally the 6502 chip was an 8 bit CPU that could only access up to 64K of ram, so atari really had to cpme up with something so that chip could access above 64K of ram. The Commodor 64 used the same chip I believe and that why it was on set at 64K.. I know when everyone went to go to the higher amounts of memory they went to the 68000 series type chips. Radio shack 68009 ,and I know there was many variations on this chip. Yet it was also a 16 bit processor which made these 2 chips non compatible. Different instruction set which made the chips not able to talk to each other. Did the 6502 ,or 6502C have any chips to follow it to have a 16 bit processor. If they had done this then all the 8 bit programs would have ran on Atari newer computers. Example Radio shack came out with the TRS-80 then the TRS-80 color computer 8 bit computer, Then the TRS-80 model 2 still 8 bits, Then the TRS-80 Color computer model 3.. (Which was a 16 bit computer that could have up to 512K of memory).. The model 3 computer could still run all the program off of the model 1 and 2 because they stay in the same family of processors. the 6800 series which by the time they got to the model 3 was the 68000 series 16 bit..All used the same instruction set. I believe the Atari 520 ST and atari 1040 ST had switch from the 6502C chip found in the 130XE and some 800XLF series to the 68000 series chip and that was the end off atari computers being compatible with each other. The 6502C chip really needed to be expanded on and made into a 16 bit processor. This would have made all the 800XL,800XLF ,and 65XE,130XE programs still running even on a new 16 bit computer system. This would also had made it easy to set up IDE hard drives,USB ports,and anything else found on modern computers. IF you looke at the Atari 1040 and the Atari falcon computer they are not running into the problems we are now. Trying to set up PBI HDD. The Falcon already has it and is being sold at Best Electronics... Why was the 6502 series chip never expanded to a 16 bit processor? This would have been really cool in some ways since we could actually have a 65000 series type chip. Well does anyone know why this never happened??? Anyways back to my original question how was Atari able to get a CPU chip that was only designed to ever access only 64K at max? Even the commodor 128 could work because they switch the Cpu away from the 6502 series. I still find it really amazing that Atari did find away around that 64K limit on the 6502 chip. This why I am asking how will the memory work if you go above what Atari set up on the extra 64K memory that has to be loaded in 16K Blocks. I know that Sony in their First Play station used 2 individual 16 bit processors to get a 32 bit system. This could have done very well with 2 6502 chips in a new computer for getting 16 bit processing and adding memory way beond anything they ever dreamed. The computer would have been able to run new software with increadble graphics and sound. also it would have been able to run all the old software as well. Well enough of that. We cannot change what happen in the past. The Atari 520 st and 1040 st,and Falcon computers were really increadable machines,but left all the old users with the 8 bit computers in the background. This could be due to the change in the management that took place in 1983 and 1984. Still the Atari 130XE did come out in 1985,but it would have been nice if there was a new chip in the 6502 series. Not the 6502C which had really not that many difference from the original 6502 series chip. I am guessing the ECI Port is not good for any since no one did anything with it. Now was there a difference in the PBI port on the 800XL computers and the ECI Port found on the 130XE. Thanks Sean

Edited by Sean39, Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:59 PM.