25 replies to this topic

[Slor]

Has anyone here been able to convert an Express! cartridge image for use in either a standard eprom cart, maybe an OSS cart, or even a flash cart? I ask because I have one original Express! cart that I use quite often, and it would be nice to have a secondary cart I could use in its place. Besides the fact that I don't really need the passthru capabilities, I also have a tendency to drop and break the passthru shells, and I dread the day I ruin this one. I haven't seen anyone post success in concerting this particular cart, so I wonder if it's easier said than done.

Thanks!
James

[bf2k+]

I wonder how many of them are out there in the wild?

I have one too.

[russg]

OK, I'm guessing an 850 Express cart, but maybe a BBS Express cart. Either one has an executable .COM or .OBJ that should work OK on a Maxflash cart.
(Thinking....)). Probably a BBS Express Pro cart. Lance Ringquist still supports it, I think. There were also 1030 Express and BBS Express 1.0 I have on disk.
BBS Express 1.0 will run on a MIO, that's what I did.

Edited by russg, Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 PM.

[AtariGeezer]

Is there an image of the Express! cart somewhere?

[bbking67]

So is this the Keith Ledbetter terminal program? Was this released by Orion? Or was it an ICD product from the time Keith worked there? I met Keith at an Atarifest in Fairfax Virginia in 1987 (the company I worked for was right beside ICD's booth and he and Mike Gustafson were manning the booth for ICD)?

[Fox-1 / mnx]

russg, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:21 PM, said:

Probably a BBS Express Pro cart. Lance Ringquist still supports it, I think.

There is virtually no advantage having BBS Express Pro! on a cartridge. The COM file may be small but it requires an extensive set of configuration files, has a lot of external CMD's (COM files which only runs under the BBS core) and the BBS needs write access.

Apart from that, even a simple BBS set-up takes up several MB's of disk space and loading the COM file is about the least time- and space-consuming action when booting the BBS.

[bf2k+]

bbking67, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:10 PM, said:

So is this the Keith Ledbetter terminal program?

Yes.

Quote

Was this released by Orion?

Yes.

Quote

I met Keith at an Atarifest in Fairfax Virginia in 1987 (the company I worked for was right beside ICD's booth and he and Mike Gustafson were manning the booth for ICD)?

I attended that A-fest. Chris King (of Orion) and I drove up there to see Keith after he left Richmond VA and went to work for ICD. WHat company did you work for?

[russg]

Fox-1 / mnx, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:27 PM, said:

russg, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:21 PM, said:

Probably a BBS Express Pro cart. Lance Ringquist still supports it, I think.

There is virtually no advantage having BBS Express Pro! on a cartridge. The COM file may be small but it requires an extensive set of configuration files, has a lot of external CMD's (COM files which only
runs under the BBS core) and the BBS needs write access.

Apart from that, even a simple BBS set-up takes up several MB's of disk space and loading the COM file is about the least time- and space-consuming action when booting the BBS.

I guess Slor and Bf2k+ are talking about 850 Express!, the term program, he didn't say for sure. Right even BBS Express! 1.0 must be run from at least two drives, a bunch of .DAT and .HLP
and .LIB files. I got out my registered BBS Express! 1.0 and two real drives and a PRC: and a 14,400 modem and started BBS Express! 1.0 up. I don't know what the passwords are
any more, so I couldn't log in as SYSOP. There's a USERSYS.DAT that has the names, but I think the passwords are encrypted. I have a FAX line now I could run that BBS for a couple
days, heh. I had a 1 meg MIO, but no hard drive. I now have a Adaptec SCSI to FMF adapter and two or three 20 meg hard drives I could use now, but no room on the work bench.
There's that bearded guy (his avatar) here who runs a real BBS, or it is a telnet, I forget, Y2K something.

Edited by russg, Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:47 PM.

[bbking67]

I worked for ReSeT Magazine... short-lived Canadian ST Magazine.

Edited by bbking67, Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:21 PM.

[bf2k+]

russg, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:35 PM, said:

I guess Slor and Bf2k+ are talking about 850 Express!, the term program, he didn't say for sure.

IN the first message, the OP explicitly say the Express! cart and Keith Ledbetter which is the clue that we are talking about the terminal program. If there were any versions of BBS:Express on a cart, Keith never had anything to do with them other than write the original code for disks.

Quote

Right even BBS Express! 1.0 must be run from at least two drives, a bunch of .DAT and .HLP
and .LIB files.

The original BBS:Express v1.0 will run on 1 drive.

Quote

I got out my registered BBS Express! 1.0 and two real drives and a PRC: and a 14,400 modem and started BBS Express! 1.0 up. I don't know what the passwords are
any more, so I couldn't log in as SYSOP. There's a USERSYS.DAT that has the names, but I think the passwords are encrypted.

BBS:Express 1.0 did not use encrypted passwords. You can take a disk editor and find out what they are, or send me the file and I'll be glad to help you.

When I first switched BF2K+ from dialup to telnet (in 1999), I used BBS:Express 1.0 and it worked fine (on 1 16mb ATR). BBS Mousenet is still running that version although I think he has done some modifications to his. I would really like to find original source code to v1.0.

Sorry not my intention to hijack the thread...

[bbking67]

By the way, what I meant with my question was whether or not ICD or Orion ever released Express! on a cartridge... so is this a user-made product? Personally I used 1030 Express and other variants for years and years... but never saw or heard of a cart version.

Edited by bbking67, Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:59 AM.

[Kr0tki]

AtariGeezer, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:35 PM, said:

Is there an image of the Express! cart somewhere?

Yes, in k1w1's collection.

bbking67, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:44 AM, said:

By the way, what I meant with my question was whether or not ICD or Orion ever released Express! on a cartridge... so is this a user-made product?

No, it's a real product of Orion's. link

Edited by Kr0tki, Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:27 AM.

[Slor]

The cartridge and software on it is simply called Express! - it's in a passthru cart like SpartaDOS X and the like. It's indeed from Orion, and I do have an image of it lying around - it's a 64K. Banking just like the other passthru carts (with a different banking address of course). There is some rumor that this cart might have also included some SRAM for saving phonebook entries or something, but I have yet to see evidence of that. The ROM runs fine in an emulator, and I'm afraid to try to open my original cart and break those stupid little pins.

I would think you'd be able to do something with this in a similar manner as SDX was ported to the Atarimax flash cart, but that's beyond my area of expertise to implement.

[AtariGeezer]

Kr0tki, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:23 AM, said:

AtariGeezer, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:35 PM, said:

Is there an image of the Express! cart somewhere?

Yes, in k1w1's collection.

Do you remember the filename?

Megaupload.com was pulled by the feds:
http://www.foxbusine...-online-piracy/

[Stephen]

AtariGeezer, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:01 PM, said:

Kr0tki, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:23 AM, said:

AtariGeezer, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:35 PM, said:

Is there an image of the Express! cart somewhere?

Yes, in k1w1's collection.

Megaupload.com was pulled by the feds:
http://www.foxbusine...-online-piracy/

Oh nice - so even is SOPA / PIPA doesn't pass, our government can do whatever the hell it wants. Nice. I might as well move to China - better access to cheap technology and cute girls

[AtariGeezer]

AtariGeezer, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:01 PM, said:

Kr0tki, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:23 AM, said:

AtariGeezer, on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:35 PM, said:

Is there an image of the Express! cart somewhere?

Yes, in k1w1's collection.

Do you remember the filename?

Megaupload.com was pulled by the feds:
http://www.foxbusine...-online-piracy/

Found it...

[bf2k+]

bbking67, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:44 AM, said:

By the way, what I meant with my question was whether or not ICD or Orion ever released Express! on a cartridge... so is this a user-made product? Personally I used 1030 Express and other variants for years and years... but never saw or heard of a cart version.

The Express! cart terminal program was released by Orion.

[russg]

Well, I'm surprised. I downloaded the MESS a800 and XEGS cart file about 2 hours ago, and now it is gone.
I been playing with the express! v1.12 rom and my BBS Expresss 1.0 and Express 850 v3 and a 2400 baud modem. I don't think, or maybe I could, put the ROM on a Maxflash, but I'm almost certain
I could put Express 850 v.3, which is 1986, on Maxflash. The Express!850 v.3 is from 1986 and the Express! cart 1989, but I don't think there's a whole lot of difference, avid users may correct my lack
of experience. At the moment I have my BBS Express up and running at 216-371-2583 (in US), if someone wants to call. The opening screen is messed up. I did figure the password file
(USERLOG.DAT) to get the passwords out. I don't want to share that file as there are a number of names and passwords and phone numbers that I sorta feel not right to expose, even
tho they are 23 years old. I'll take the BBS down tomorrow, so don't get annoyed with a FAX machine answering tomorrow (tonite is Jan. 19, 2012 9:30 PM Eastern time.).

Edited by russg, Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:27 PM.

[rdemming]

AtariGeezer, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:01 PM, said:

Megaupload.com was pulled by the feds:
http://www.foxbusine...-online-piracy/

From the article:
Among those charged are site founders Kim Dotcom and Kim Tim Jim Vestor and Chief Marketing Officer Finn Batato.

Lol, is .com Kim's real last name?

[bf2k+]

russg, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:21 PM, said:

The Express!850 v.3 is from 1986 and the Express! cart 1989, but I don't think there's a whole lot of difference

Actually, the Express cart is significantly different from the original Express terminals. IIRC, the originals were written in Action and the Cart in ASM so the cart is a complete rewrite. The cart has Led's LModem protocol in it which is geared for downloading from PRO BBSes of the same era.

[russg]

To answer the original question. The answer is Yes, you can make a Maxflash cart of Express! cart. I studied Maxflash Cartridge Studio a bit. You would have to have a Maxflash USB cartridge
programmer and of course a Maxflash 1 or 8 mbit cart. I think the 1 mb cart would work. You would first 'dump' the Express! cart in the cartridge menu, there is a specific choice for dumping an
Express! cart, to a Maxflash raw/.bin file. This .bin file would be different from the .bin file that was at the k1w1 site, I tried it. After you dump the cart, you could then burn a Maxflash cart using
the USB programmer. Or, you could convert the Maxflash .bin file to a Maxflash .ATR (ISP In system programming) file that wouldn't require the programmer to make the cart. I don't have
a programmer cart, so I'm not sure.

Edited by russg, Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:03 PM.

[Shawn Jefferson]

russg, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:35 AM, said:

You would first 'dump' the Express! cart in the cartridge menu, there is a specific choice for dumping an
Express! cart, to a Maxflash raw/.bin file. This .bin file would be different from the .bin file that was at the k1w1 site, I tried it. After you dump the cart, you could then burn a Maxflash cart using
the USB programmer. Or, you could convert the Maxflash .bin file to a Maxflash .ATR (ISP In system programming) file that wouldn't require the programmer to make the cart. I don't have
a programmer cart, so I'm not sure.

It might not be that easy. The Atarimax flashcart only banks $A000, so only 8k. If the Express cart has a different banking scheme (which I'm almost positive it does), you'd have to hack it a bit to get it to work in the Atarimax flashcart. Just because you can dump a cart with the USB programmer doesn't mean it will work in the Atarimax Flashcart.

[russg]

Shawn Jefferson, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:50 PM, said:

russg, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:35 AM, said:

You would first 'dump' the Express! cart in the cartridge menu, there is a specific choice for dumping an
Express! cart, to a Maxflash raw/.bin file. This .bin file would be different from the .bin file that was at the k1w1 site, I tried it. After you dump the cart, you could then burn a Maxflash cart using
the USB programmer. Or, you could convert the Maxflash .bin file to a Maxflash .ATR (ISP In system programming) file that wouldn't require the programmer to make the cart. I don't have
a programmer cart, so I'm not sure.

It might not be that easy. The Atarimax flashcart only banks $A000, so only 8k. If the Express cart has a different banking scheme (which I'm almost positive it does), you'd have to hack it a bit to get it to work in the Atarimax flashcart. Just because you can dump a cart with the USB programmer doesn't mean it will work in the Atarimax Flashcart.

Maxflash can emulate banked carts if it can't actually copy. There are flash cart programming .ATRs for ACTION!, SpartaX 4.45, Mac65, all banked carts. I wonder why there would be a specific menu choice for
dumping the Express! cart using the Max USB programming cart if it can't be burned to a Maxflash cart. I tried to convert the the k1w1 Express! ROM file to a burn .ATR and the Maxflash cart Studio said
it wanted a 128K ROM file, when the k1w1 file is 64k. Maybe someone with a regular EPROM burner could burn the k1w1 Express! v1.12.rom. The question was could it be done, Maybe I should say 'maybe'
rather than 'Yes'. I can't do it, it requires some equipment I don't have.

Edited by russg, Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:17 PM.

[Slor]

I've been asked by the Express! copyright holder to NOT pursue this effort, so I consider this topic closed. Thanks everyone for your input.

[Shawn Jefferson]

Granted you had an original Express! cart (thus no problem with copyright issues), it should be pretty simple to put into an Atarimax cartridge, if it uses the M091 or 034M style OSS cartridge banking. I think (without taking too long a look at it), you'd have to duplicate the $B000 bank with each of the $A000 banks, and then find the banking instructions in the code and hack them to use the Atarimax addresses instead. It's been done for other OSS carts, so should be feasible.