72 replies to this topic

[BillyHW]

But how are you going to play the game in 20-years?

[Rex Dart]

BillyHW, on Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:32 PM, said:

But how are you going to play the game in 20-years?

On your modded system.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

Atariboy, on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:40 AM, said:

There's no way to not allow used game sales.

How would they manage it without killing off a significant percentage of their business that doesn't have their systems connected to the internet? Could they impliment a system that ties a game to a single console only and have that limitation also apply to those that stay offline?

I suppose they could make a portion of an optical disc be rewritable with the disc tied to the system the first time it's played.

Looks like Ars Technica have some theoretical models Microsoft might tryfor locking out used games.

Atariboy seems to have predicted one of them: the addition of a small, one-time-writable section on the disc would allow each new purchase to be "branded" with a unique personal identifier the first time it's loaded

Personally I like the kiosk and dongle notion myself (if they absolutely must kill used games ... something I am opposed to)

[HammR25]

The kiosk thing is crazy. I can just imagine how angry people would get when they go to buy Call of Duty XXIV or Madden 2015 on release day and they've got to wait in a huge line to burn a disc just so they can play it. The publishers would have to get people to preorder and pay the entire preorder price before a certain date to make sure those people got their copy and then make everyone else go the way of the kiosk. As for the disc with the one time write, people would get pretty pissed if their console died and took all their games with it.

[iswitt]

If they block out used games, that will basically take away used game stores (obviously), game rentals like GameFly or brick and mortar stores and stop libraries from carrying video games. I don't like this one bit. I bought the used game cheap because it was just that - cheap. I didn't buy the game new at full price because I didn't want to risk 50 or 60 bucks on a game I may or may not like, so I might risk 20 instead. If everything has to bought "new" then I'm out. I don't see car makers getting angry at used car lots or clothing makers raging on consignment shops. I think the gaming world needs to chill out.

[Nuclear Pacman]

Yeah it is really misguided for game companies to concern themselves with how much money Gamestop makes on used games (I hate gamestop, but just as an example). Just like they have no legitimate concern with the sale of used video games on the forums here at AA. This is the kind of stuff those idiot Occupy Wall Streeters should be protesting, I mean this is pure greedy encroachment of consumer freedoms, but instead they chose to demand forgiveness of their student loans.

[onlysublime]

I see something like the online pass that EA and Ubisoft have implemented on some games so that used games are gimped. Include a code inside the package. And if someone buys the game used, the code's already been used and sell the codes for $10. But I don't see implementing what the rumors are.

[BillyHW]

Does Microsoft realize that banning used games devalues new games? That they will have to charge less for new games if they have no resale value?

I wonder what the economic effects would be.

[iswitt]

BillyHW, on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:32 PM, said:

Does Microsoft realize that banning used games devalues new games? That they will have to charge less for new games if they have no resale value?

I wonder what the economic effects would be.

That's a good point. If I can't buy a game for $60, play it, beat it and then resell it for around half of what I paid for it or so, that is going to be pretty lame. New games would have to come down in price to compensate for this. And that means less revenue for all parties involved than they are currently used to for new game sales. I wonder, if this were to happen, if the net profit made from a game nowadays and the net profit made from a "new-only" game would be about the same because of this.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

ComputerSpaceFan, on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:56 PM, said:

Personally I like the kiosk and dongle notion myself (if they absolutely must kill used games ... something I am opposed to)

Wow ironically Nintendo seem to be hitting on this idea for the WiiU

http://gamasutra.com...aving_grace.php

Imagine a fob that could be attached to a keychain. You head into your local GameStop or Best Buy, and using NFC in that store, you add points to it, then simply swipe the card on your Wii U console when you get home to transfer them.

[KrazyKaiju]

Between PSN Pass and this new XBox 720 news, I really think I'm done with consoles. I've been looking at mini PCs that might work well as a console replacement. At least then I could take advantage of Steam sales and Skyrim mods, and I could run XBMC on it too.

Anyone had any hands on time with the Alienware X51 or that new Asus box?

[Atariboy]

I hope you're not thinking PC gaming will be any better in regards to things like DRM since it isn't. It only gets worse in the PC world.

I assume you're thinking if console gaming has all these hassles that only PC gamers used to have to worry about, that you might as well be a PC gamer and enjoy some of the benefits like modding that you're missing out on in the console world. Not bad logic except there's plenty of excellent console games that never make it to PC's while console owners usually don't miss out on many AAA PC releases these days.

That's the primary downside of leaving consoles behind if you ask me. I'd miss the 1st and 2nd party releases and plenty of excellent 3rd party releases never even see PC releases these days.

[KrazyKaiju]

Atariboy, on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:53 PM, said:

I assume you're thinking if console gaming has all these hassles that only PC gamers used to have to worry about, that you might as well be a PC gamer and enjoy some of the benefits like modding that you're missing out on in the console world. Not bad logic except there's plenty of excellent console games that never make it to PC's while console owners usually don't miss out on many AAA PC releases these days.

That's the primary downside of leaving consoles behind if you ask me. I'd miss the 1st and 2nd party releases and plenty of excellent 3rd party releases never even see PC releases these days.

True, but there are many good indie games on PC that don't get console releases either, so I'd say it's a wash. Anyway, from what I've been reading the next XBox and the Wii U barely match the specs of a current gen gaming rig, so my point was why bother with consoles anymore if you have to put up with the same kind of DRM. Since I need a PC for other things anyway, I'm leaning more toward spending a little more upfront to get a decent gaming rig.

[DemonoidTentacle]

I can barely afford new games here in Australia, that's why I collect classic, so that I can still afford to eat. If I can't buy a 2nd hand copy of a game months down the track, I'm going to miss out on so much. If The Big 3 all did it for their consoles, hopefully something crazy would happen. And by that I mean a new (or old) player comes to town with their own console that will allow you to play games from new or 2nd hand.

I just hope that if this DID happen, it'd be called the Dreamcast 2, and it'd be so second hand friendly that it'd be backwards compatible with the games from 1999.

[Nuclear Pacman]

It's been discussed in another thread that was locked, but more and more game companies are jumping on the anti-used game bandwagon. Here's a link to the Saints Row Dev talking about how awesome it will be for their side. http://xbox360.ign.c.../1218051p1.html

Quote

In a blog post on #AltDevBlogADay, Durall writes, "Personally I think this would be a fantastic change for our business. Even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first, they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

So even if consumers predictably hate it, they want to do it anyway. This next generation is working towards the most anti-consumer and anti-gamer generation in video game history.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

Quote

Even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first, they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

Am I the only person here starting to feel like a boiling frog?

[ninjarabbit]

I might getting a Wii-U by default if MS and Sony are going to do some of these rumored ideas.

[Nuclear Pacman]

ninjarabbit, on Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:37 PM, said:

I might getting a Wii-U by default if MS and Sony are going to do some of these rumored ideas.

If I were Sony, I'd wait to see if MS is going to allow anti-used game tech on their next console, and then favorably position the PS4 to not do this. After a $3 billion loss in 2011, Sony needs good PR more than anything. They could just announce now that the PS4 will be used game friendly, but it would be smart to see if Microsoft makes this huge mistake publicly before announcing their intentions with the PS4.

[KrazyKaiju]

What bothers me most about the Saints Row dev article is his condesending attitute about how consumers will 'grow to accept it.' The whole notion that gamers have to just shut up and accept what the industry decides give them pisses me off more than anything.

IGN had an article last month about Sony requiring all games going forward (from Jan 2012) to use PSN pass. So far it's only for multiplayer content, but it could easily be changed to lock all content to an individual PS3. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony starts locking out used games before this console generation is over.

[Mord]

ComputerSpaceFan, on Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:20 PM, said:

Quote

Even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first, they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

Am I the only person here starting to feel like a boiling frog?

Starting? I've been seeing and predicting this situation develop for many years now. The only thing that has been surprising me is that things have been falling apart even faster than I thought they'd dare.

[godslabrat]

KrazyKaiju, on Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:38 AM, said:

What bothers me most about the Saints Row dev article is his condesending attitute about how consumers will 'grow to accept it.' The whole notion that gamers have to just shut up and accept what the industry decides give them pisses me off more than anything.

Uh huh. I think the next gen will be characterized (for me) as a contest to see just how little the game companies want my money.

[StoneAgeGamer]

iswitt, on Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:17 PM, said:

If they block out used games, that will basically take away used game stores (obviously), game rentals like GameFly or brick and mortar stores and stop libraries from carrying video games. I don't like this one bit. I bought the used game cheap because it was just that - cheap. I didn't buy the game new at full price because I didn't want to risk 50 or 60 bucks on a game I may or may not like, so I might risk 20 instead. If everything has to bought "new" then I'm out. I don't see car makers getting angry at used car lots or clothing makers raging on consignment shops. I think the gaming world needs to chill out.

Well your comparisons are not really exactly the same. Used cars and used cloths depreciate in value differently than media.

Please note I am not defending the game companies, because honestly as much as used games may hurt them, I think doing this will hurt them even more in the long run.

If a buy a car brand new and drive it all over for 3 months and put 25K miles on it lets say. I then go to resell it, one big reason I won't get close to what I paid for it not because its 3 months old, its because it received 25K worth of wear, even if if I kept up on maintenance and drove it with care the components still have worn down and their life is now shorter. In short, even though the car may look good and run well its still depreciated heavily.

Now lets say you buy a brand new game for $60. What is the true worth? The physical media or the entertainment from playing? Unless you are a collector most likely its the entertainment from playing. So lets say you play this new game like crazy for a week and beat it and your the type of person that once you beat it you are done with it (which many people are, even with games with high replay value). All that game received was a weeks worth of use, most likely the game is still in like-new condition very few if any scratches so it still play perfectly fine. So you sell it back to Gamestop for lets say $30 (I am not sure what their actual buy backs are) and they put it back up for sale for $50. So a guy comes in 1 week after the launch of the game can acquire a basically brand new game (1 week old) for $10 less and they are getting the same value from it as the original buyer because the entertainment value is still intact. Its not like the game's graphics got worse over that week span or the game lost some levels. Its still the exact same game. However, the developer/publisher see nothing.

Again, I am not trying to defend these game companies because I think this type of stuff hurts them more than helps them from a business stand point, but I can also see it through there eyes as well. We are talking about products that although come in a physical package, their true value is the entertainment received, not the physical disc itself. Whereas the example of used cars and cloths, the value is the actual car or is the piece of clothing. This is not to say games don't depreciate in value, but their depreciation is mainly demand based depreciation.

[BillyHW]

But in the original $60 is included some amount for resale value. It's not just entertainment value.