40 replies to this topic

[high voltage]

Hehe made me laugh, according to UKs Amiga Special magazine from 1992, editor Tim Smith, the best selling 8 bit computer actually never had any carts, the cartridge port was just ...there...
Sorry 'bout the blur.



And it could load 'tapes' from tape, disk or cartridge, I always knew the C64 was amazing stuff.

Just another proof how unknowledgeable the Brits were about US gaming.

Edited by high voltage, Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:26 AM.

[save2600]

That paragraph is all sorts of wrong. Weird, because the Brits had cartridges for the C64 too. And in typical global gaming fashion, many of those carts never saw a release over here!

[high voltage]

Yes, the Brits know about the C64 GS and carts, but not of 80s carts for C64, eg Activision, Atari, Parker. ZZAP!64 was all in vain.

[SoulBlazer]

I didn't have MANY games on cart for the C-64, but I had a couple. Had a couple on tape also. But the vast majority (I'd say 95 percent) of them were on disc. I've read that all together during the life of the system some 10,000 games were made for the C-64.

[the-topdog]

I'm sure that number has to be more than 10,000 unless that is commercially released disks only. The shareware, public domain and freeware games numberd in the thousands alone.

There were somewhere around 500 cartridges made for the C64... but everytime someone thinks they have a difinitive list, a couple more unknown cartridges surface.

[Seob]

Guess the brits where to busy with the zx spectrum and bbc micro.

[epobirs]

It was kind of absurd to release a new 8-bit console at that late date. The hardware was so terribly dated and while mask ROM prices allowed for much higher capacity and porting of disk-based games, the amount of bank-switching hassles involved was non-trivial in the extreme. But then, it was hardly any better on the Atari XEGS.

I don't think either company really understood where the console market was going at the time. The PC Engine (TurboGrafx16 in the US) was already making a big splash in Japan, briefly becoming the dominant platform. The Sega MegaDrive (Genesis in the US) was just launched, and Nintendo had already run some technology demos for what would soon be known as the Super Famicom. The only place the existing 8-bit computers might have been worthwhile is in a handheld format but that would have been prohibitively expensive.

[epobirs]

high voltage, on Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:49 AM, said:

Yes, the Brits know about the C64 GS and carts, but not of 80s carts for C64, eg Activision, Atari, Parker. ZZAP!64 was all in vain.

Taken in context the paragraph is correct. Keep in mind, the C64 GS (and the Atari XEGS) were not treated as cut down versions of old 8-bit systems. They were marketed as new platforms with a lot of emphasis on new game titles rather than existing ROM games using miniscule 8 and 16 KB cartridges. These machines supported bankswitching schemes that allowed the content to get into the range previously associated with games sold on floppy disk. Some old favorites were repackaged but generally the idea was that given much larger capacity to work with the developers could squeeze more life out of these platforms if the complexity of dealing with tapes and disks were eliminated.

This might have been a viable business if mask ROM cost and capacity had improved at a much faster pace, allowing cortridge only systems to be pushed while these platforms were still driving the market. But the Amiga was already several years in the market when this was launched.

The big problem was another part of the console market they didn't understand: Nintendo's publishing model for third party products. This was the entire basis for the resurrection of consoles as a viable business. The reason Sega struggled for so long before enjoying a few good years with the MegaDrive/Genesis was their own failure to adopt the publishing model for almost a decade after it first appeared with the Famicom/NES.

It is because of this model, by which software production is closely controlled by the console maker and a royalty fee imposed on third parties for access to the platform, that manufacturers can sell a console for minimal or even negative margin and still make substantial profit in the long term through software sales. If Commodore had understood this they could have launched a games focused version of the Amiga much earlier than their eventual CD-32 and perhaps been a serious player in the console realm.

[Mayhem]

Most, if not all, of Commodore's own cartridges were released in Europe, so there were definitely cartridges here in the early 80s. But yes, many of the others were US only and merely available if you found an enterprising shop importing them.

the-topdog, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:46 PM, said:

There were somewhere around 500 cartridges made for the C64... but everytime someone thinks they have a difinitive list, a couple more unknown cartridges surface.

Not quite as many as that, in terms of games. The best list will be over at Digital Press, the one that I maintain, and yes, new stuff is added pretty much when it is discovered.

[the-topdog]

Mayhem, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:02 PM, said:

Not quite as many as that, in terms of games. The best list will be over at Digital Press, the one that I maintain, and yes, new stuff is added pretty much when it is discovered.

Sorry, my bad. I was looking at the total number of lines in my C64 Cartridge Checklist (645) and assumed around 100-150 lines of company names... I was way off on that guess. There are right around 410 cartridges on my list. How many do you have on your list? Do you have a link to the DigitalPress page? I would like to try to get my list as complete as possible.

Attached Files

•  c64-carts-checklist.txt   19.45K   24 downloads

Edited by the-topdog, Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:45 PM.

[Mayhem]

The DP rarity guide is available online here: http://guide.digitpr.../cmf/search.cmf

Some of the additions I've made in the last six months haven't been refreshed in the public version yet, but for the most part, everything I know about is there, games wise. If I spent time adding all the utility cartridges in, I'd be here until 2014.

Your link looks familiar. Very familiar. I'm guessing it's based off Scott Hansen's original stab at producing a list back in 1999. It was the foundation of where I started my list, a list that has developed, increased and mutated over more than ten years. Just glancing at it, I can see a lot of missing titles and ones that don't actually exist afaik. Although you reminded me about the Game Dart listing. It was hard to determine if that's a true game, but I suppose it is, and I should get around to adding it. If I can recall any of the relevant data.

Who are Computronic Games though? I've not heard of anything from that list, nor them. Likewise MEG. And Ready Learning Systems. Most peculiar...

[the-topdog]

Mayhem, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:24 PM, said:

The DP rarity guide is available online here: http://guide.digitpr.../cmf/search.cmf

Some of the additions I've made in the last six months haven't been refreshed in the public version yet, but for the most part, everything I know about is there, games wise. If I spent time adding all the utility cartridges in, I'd be here until 2014.

Your link looks familiar. Very familiar. I'm guessing it's based off Scott Hansen's original stab at producing a list back in 1999. It was the foundation of where I started my list, a list that has developed, increased and mutated over more than ten years. Just glancing at it, I can see a lot of missing titles and ones that don't actually exist afaik. Although you reminded me about the Game Dart listing. It was hard to determine if that's a true game, but I suppose it is, and I should get around to adding it. If I can recall any of the relevant data.

Who are Computronic Games though? I've not heard of anything from that list, nor them. Likewise MEG. And Ready Learning Systems. Most peculiar...

Sweet thanks for the link.

Yes the basis for my list was Scott's original checklist and I have added a few from other online lists and old mail-order catalog lists whenever I stumble upon them.

I have never seen any of the cartridges from Computronic or MEG and have only found Letter Hunt from Ready Learning... it is in the same style cartridge case as the OEM Mr Computer carts.

[Rhod]

http://www.steverd.com/rare/r-c64.htm
http://www.mayhem64.co.uk/c64carts.htm

[Mayhem]

That bottom link is my own website, although I only document the cartridges I actually own. Which admittedly is a huge proportion of the ones out there.

the-topdog, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:49 AM, said:

I have never seen any of the cartridges from Computronic or MEG and have only found Letter Hunt from Ready Learning... it is in the same style cartridge case as the OEM Mr Computer carts.

Well, I'd be interested in photos of this cartridge, and given it doesn't exist in Gamebase64, then if you can dump it, that would be even better. Where did you get any lists of what these companies produced, given I've not heard of them? Catalogs? Adverts in magazines? Evidently something I might have missed then...

[the-topdog]

--Duplicate post--

Edited by the-topdog, Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:47 PM.

[the-topdog]

Mayhem, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:44 AM, said:

Well, I'd be interested in photos of this cartridge

Picture posted. The label is metallic silver, not grey... I can't get my camera to make the metallic silver look right for some reason.

If you can get scans of the box I would love to have them.

Mayhem, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:44 AM, said:

Where did you get any lists of what these companies produced

I don't remember where I got the Computronic listings, I think it may have been on an online list somewhere, I am always looking.

I'm pretty sure MEG was from a mexican mail order catalog I stumbled upon a few years back.

The Ready Learning Systems cartridges were on a flyer I was shown some time back that was printed for a local computer store in Florida. I think it was the same city as the Mr Computer OEM cartidges come from.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by the-topdog, Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:52 PM.

[Mayhem]

OEM/Mr Computer was based out of Fort Pierce in Florida. Given the case shown here is identical to those used by OEM, then I imagine there must be a link. Same supplier most likely. Someone I know was digging into the history of OEM and Machine Language Games (as they often shared the same offices) and RLS didn't come up anywhere in the discussion.

Would you be able to dump the cartridge yourself? You'd need a multi cartridge adapter (that has switches for each slot), a disk drive or similar, and the ability to transfer data to the PC from such media. If not, would you consider loaning the cartridge to me?

As for now, I'll take all the entries you have for the three companies and roll them into the Digital Press guide, but only in the rumour mill section. Apart from Letter Hunt of course. At least they'll be documented for posterity. If any genuine copies turn up, they'll get moved out of there. So you think the MEG stuff might be from Mexico, not the USA?

Still, I have to say this is quite a revelation, and that these must really be tiny in production for me to have not seen any of them in fifteen years of collecting cartridges for the C64.

[the-topdog]

Mayhem, on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:21 PM, said:

OEM/Mr Computer was based out of Fort Pierce in Florida. Given the case shown here is identical to those used by OEM, then I imagine there must be a link. Same supplier most likely. Someone I know was digging into the history of OEM and Machine Language Games (as they often shared the same offices) and RLS didn't come up anywhere in the discussion.

Would you be able to dump the cartridge yourself? You'd need a multi cartridge adapter (that has switches for each slot), a disk drive or similar, and the ability to transfer data to the PC from such media. If not, would you consider loaning the cartridge to me?

As for now, I'll take all the entries you have for the three companies and roll them into the Digital Press guide, but only in the rumour mill section. Apart from Letter Hunt of course. At least they'll be documented for posterity. If any genuine copies turn up, they'll get moved out of there. So you think the MEG stuff might be from Mexico, not the USA?

Still, I have to say this is quite a revelation, and that these must really be tiny in production for me to have not seen any of them in fifteen years of collecting cartridges for the C64.

I should be able to dump the cart.

I agree that the MEG and Computronic carts should be marked for the rumor mill since I have never seen one. Lots of things were planned for but that doesn't mean they actually made it to production. Yes, the MEG listings were from Mexico.

I would assume that at least one of the other RLS titles exists since Letter Hunt is labeled #2

[Mayhem]

the-topdog, on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:59 AM, said:

I should be able to dump the cart.

Basic instructions for dumping can be found here, section 3 will probably apply for you. If you find you can't, then as said, I can do it...

Edited by Mayhem, Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:04 PM.

[Arkhan]

my first C64 game was Gateway to Apshai on cartridge, and I was 12, in 2000.

This guy's a moron.

[Phredreeke]

Seob, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:59 PM, said:

Guess the brits where to busy with the zx spectrum and bbc micro.

I'm not british but from my understanding the BBC Micro wasn't popular in homes because of its high pricepoint, although it was the de facto school computer (due to the support of the public broadcaster which it gets its name from) In homes the ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64 and Amstrad CPC were more common.

Tape was the dominant medium for 8-bit computers in Europe. Most games on C64 and Amstrad CPC were released on disk as well. Very few games were released as cartridge.

[The Usotsuki]

That would make the BBC the British Apple ][ of sorts.

[high voltage]

Phredreeke, on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:42 AM, said:

Seob, on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:59 PM, said:

Guess the brits where to busy with the zx spectrum and bbc micro.

I'm not british but from my understanding the BBC Micro wasn't popular in homes because of its high pricepoint, although it was the de facto school computer (due to the support of the public broadcaster which it gets its name from) In homes the ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64 and Amstrad CPC were more common.

Tape was the dominant medium for 8-bit computers in Europe. Most games on C64 and Amstrad CPC were released on disk as well. Very few games were released as cartridge.

Not Europe, UK, maybe France Spain, in Germany was all fdds too, be it on C64 or Atari XL (the two 8bit leaders in Germany).

Edited by high voltage, Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:30 PM.

[Phredreeke]

FDDs weren't uncommon but tape was the dominant format.

[high voltage]

Phredreeke, on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:59 PM, said:

FDDs weren't uncommon but tape was the dominant format.

Yeah I lived in the UK during the 80s, I thought what's all this Spectrum stuff and TAPES? Where's the disks? Spectrum doesn't do disks, so C64 has to suffer tapes too. WHSmith was tapes galore