28 replies to this topic

[Bartsfam]

Maybe I'm just an old fart..but I cannot believe the wussification of Nintendo games lately!
First Super Mario Kart Wii, has cheap hits at the end of the race, that you can't avoid to let everybody win!
Then, I believe, SM Bros. Wii, and DK Country Returns had similar features allowing you to get to the end of a level if you died too much.

Now SM 3D Land. My 10 year old daughter got the 3DS for Christmas. She asks me for help on the tough parts of SM 3D.
First I noticed she had 97 lives. Then after I took over and died a few times, a special Tanookie suit appeared to make me invincible to get through the level.

If that wasn't bad enough, we finally made it to the last level against Bowser. I got her to the half way point, and she took it back. After dying a few times, something appeared that said touch here, and you will be transported to the end of the level on the flagpole. My daughter did it, and automatically defeated Bowser! WHAT?!?
I asked my daughter if she felt guilty taking the easy way out, and she said "Nope!"

I hate to sound like Cranky Kong, but in my day, games never had an easy way out built into the game. I would try for days to kill the final boss of a game.

This has to be Nintendo's way of making games accesible to the casual player, and expand itself to a broad market, but I really cannot stand it.

We don't own an XBox or PS3. Do these companies do the same thing? Do they let the gamer take the "easy way out?"

[Rex Dart]

Recent Nintendo titles have done it the most, but I remember as far back as fighters on the Neo Geo, letting you spin a roulette for one of four "boosts" for the rematch after losing a fight.

Edited by Rex Dart, Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:26 PM.

[monzamess]

As a mediocre gamer, I think this is a good idea if it's implemented well. It's really frustrating to just get stuck in a game I've bought and not get to experience it all.

For example in one of the Simpsons driving games (like Crazy Taxi) if you screw up a level many times, you get to skip it. As I said I am not a great gamer in the first place, but sometimes there is just a POS level. In this game, once past that level, I beat the rest. Without that feature I'd have just quit playing and, more importantly to the game disitrbutors, I would have not bought any more of those games.

[Animan]

Try playing the "Special Worlds" after you beat the first 8 worlds, THEN try and say it's an easy game. Those lives are there for a reason.

Oh, and you can't use the special Tanooki suit in those worlds, either.

[Bartsfam]

Animan, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:32 PM, said:

Try playing the "Special Worlds" after you beat the first 8 worlds, THEN try and say it's an easy game. Those lives are there for a reason.

Oh, and you can't use the special Tanooki suit in those worlds, either.

Yup, I agree the special worlds are hard, but the initial journey to get there was not. I think you should have to work for the special goodies.
Remember you had to work hard to be "Super Sonic" in the original Sonic!

[sidcrazy]

Yeah, I actually like Mario 3D land a lot. Mario Galaxy seemed to difficult to me.

When I think back on past Mario games, I liked the easier ones. My favorite NES Mario was Super Mario Bros 2 US (Doki Doki Panic) btw. So yeah I don't mind that games are getting easier.

[atari2600land]

I think the game is too hard! Having a special Tanooki suit isn't going to help anything if your problem is plummeting to your death.

[NE146]

I'm really really enjoying Mario 3D.. I dunno.

I've been playing it and I realize I haven't played a Mario since Sunshine, and on that one I gave up halfway through. Now it's making me want to really play the Mario Galaxy titles.

[Jifremok]

Animan, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:32 PM, said:

Try playing the "Special Worlds" after you beat the first 8 worlds, THEN try and say it's an easy game. Those lives are there for a reason.

Oh, and you can't use the special Tanooki suit in those worlds, either.

I'd rather not have to trudge through 90something% of an easy game just to get to the hard parts. Then again, I don't have a 3DS so I can't even find out whether those easy levels are at least fun to stomp through. (If it's anything like New SMB Wii then yes---but without giving me any incentive to ever replay it.)

...and yeah, simply GIVING the free pass to someone having trouble is not a very good solution. If anything, that can just be insulting to someone who's just having a bad day. At least in Mario 3 you had to earn the P Wing that would let you skip some tough level.

Bartsfam, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:37 PM, said:

Yup, I agree the special worlds are hard, but the initial journey to get there was not. I think you should have to work for the special goodies.
Remember you had to work hard to be "Super Sonic" in the original Sonic!

Yeah, and even when you got all the Chaos Emeralds you still needed to accumulate 50 rings. That wasn't always easy. By the way, ever go through Wing Fortress as Super Sonic?

[MagitekAngel]

My guess is Nintendo had to make Super Mario 3D Land really, really easy so you could beat it in one battery charge.

[Austin]

atari2600land, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:22 PM, said:

I think the game is too hard!

You think everything is too hard.

[Animan]

Jifremok, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:03 PM, said:

Animan, on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:32 PM, said:

Try playing the "Special Worlds" after you beat the first 8 worlds, THEN try and say it's an easy game. Those lives are there for a reason.

Oh, and you can't use the special Tanooki suit in those worlds, either.

I'd rather not have to trudge through 90something% of an easy game just to get to the hard parts. Then again, I don't have a 3DS so I can't even find out whether those easy levels are at least fun to stomp through. (If it's anything like New SMB Wii then yes---but without giving me any incentive to ever replay it.)

Nah, they were still rather enjoyable.

[FireStar]

I actually think half of the special worlds were just as easy as the normal worlds, but the levels didn't seem to have floating from the tanooki suit or luigi in mind.(The tanooki suit makes the game way easier) I think the main reason I died throughout the game was because I misjudged my jump when I had 3-D off. Either that or I tried to not get hit at all.
What really disappointed me was how easy all the star coins were found. Only TWO in the whole game took more than one play of the level to find. I think this is due to nearly all of the levels in the game being really linear.
When I found out about the P-Wing, though, I was amazed. You die only 10 times, and you get a free pass through the level?

[NE146]

FireStar, on Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:51 PM, said:

When I found out about the P-Wing, though, I was amazed. You die only 10 times, and you get a free pass through the level?

If you want it of course. It's your choice to take it or not. And speaking as someone who can score a million in Robotron, 10's of thousands in an arcade Defender, and has played and finished many "hard" games over the past 30 years or so, I think that's a fine compromise really.

Still having fun playing it.

Edited by NE146, Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:16 PM.

[rockman_x_2002]

I've noticed this "dumbing down" on the difficulty in Nintendo games. It's a little troubling, but I understand maybe handicapping the game just a touch for younger players to help maybe give them a boost up.

Perhaps a better solution for this would be an option that allows veteran players to select a difficulty. If you choose Easy, you get the game with all the boost items available to you. Choose normal and it turns those boost items off and keeps the difficulty at a fairly easy to moderate level. Choose hard and it bumps the difficulty up to a more "classic" level.

As for earning an obscene amount of 1-ups, I tend to always do that in Mario titles. I think what's changed is the fact that when you stop playing and turn the game off, it saves how many lives you earned. In the older games (SM64 and back), it kneecapped you right back down to 5, no matter how many you earned.

[mlippart]

I dunno- maybe I'm getting older and/or lazier, but I have definitely noticed my gaming skills have degraded over the years (or maybe it's my patience). Nowadays, if it takes me more than a few tries, I lose interest- I have been stuck on the last Sword trial in Skyward Sword for a bit, because I try it twice, lose, and move on to other things. When a game has a difficulty setting I usually put it on the lowest/easiest one (Fallout and Oblivion being the most blatant examples). If a review says a game gets hard, I usually won't buy it (like the new Rayman game). Totally different than 20 years ago . . .

my point is, I am in complete agreement with Nintendo here. The option to allow everyone to get through a game isn't a bad thing, I would say. I paid for it, I should have a right to see the whole thing through, regardless of skill level. I loved the Wii Sin and Punishment game, until I got stuck on the same level for two years . . .

Edited by mlippart, Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:39 AM.

[cimerians]

I like it. I cant finish games like I used to and dont have any patience for megaman-like diffilculty's anymore.
Neither can any of my non-gaming family. If I cant beat the game how the hell is my family going to do it?

Games that are too megaman for me do not get played and rarely get purchased anymore.

[Mendon]

I find a lot of the Nintendo games..... Donkey Kong Country Returns, Mario Bros. Wii, etc.... can still be difficult as hell for me as my gaming skills have deteriorated with age. As long as any "easy way out's" are optional, as they have been in the Nintendo games that I've played, I don't see any problem with including this feature.


Mendon

[bomberpunk]

Mario Kart 7 is ass rape in 3D starting with 100cc. i can't imagine getting gold in 150cc Mirror Mode.

[NE146]

bomberpunk, on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:22 AM, said:

Mario Kart 7 is ass rape in 3D starting with 100cc. i can't imagine getting gold in 150cc Mirror Mode.

Hrm? I got gold in every level including 150cc mirror. Sometimes it took two+ attempts (i.e. just getting silver) but it wasn't too much problem. The key is not giving up even though you get 5th place in a race. The other drivers mess up too so the point total at the end is still anyone's game.

[Pixelboy]

I'd say free passes are an idea who's time has come. When I was a kid, I hated Ghosts'n Goblins on the NES because I found it too hard. Same goes for several other titles (Ninja Gaiden II and III come to mind). If they had given a fair way to skip tough spots in those generally harder games, I would have appreciated them more. Using built-in cheats is not as guilt-inducing as one might think...

My best friend and I used to laugh at Super Ghouls & Ghosts on SNES when we were kids. We never got far into the game and we both used to say "What good is it to have beautiful graphics if we never get to see them?"

[bomberpunk]

NE146, on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:18 AM, said:

bomberpunk, on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:22 AM, said:

Mario Kart 7 is ass rape in 3D starting with 100cc. i can't imagine getting gold in 150cc Mirror Mode.

Hrm? I got gold in every level including 150cc mirror. Sometimes it took two+ attempts (i.e. just getting silver) but it wasn't too much problem. The key is not giving up even though you get 5th place in a race. The other drivers mess up too so the point total at the end is still anyone's game.

the longer you aren't in 1st place, the less of a chance you have for a 3-star gold trophy. i have two cups left in 100cc to tackle.

also, i accidentally learned that if you use a mushroom right as the blue shell is coming down on you from above, you speed through it and not take the hit. the problem with that is you never get mushrooms if you're in first.

[NE146]

bomberpunk, on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 AM, said:

the longer you aren't in 1st place, the less of a chance you have for a 3-star gold trophy. i have two cups left in 100cc to tackle

Well getting a 3 star gold is an entirely different thing altogether. And really I don't think you get anything for it except maybe satisfaction. I know you apparently get a gold part of some sort for at least getting 1 star in everything

First item of the day is to get gold in everything (0-3 stars) Then after that you can focus on getting 3 on the ones you don't have it.

Edited by NE146, Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:21 PM.

[Bartsfam]

Hmmmmm....I may have to change my beliefs of my earlier rant. I'm having a heck of a time on Donkey Kong Country Returns...

[JamesD]

I can see where this is heading... "For one dollar you can skip to the end of the level!"