72 replies to this topic

[Games For Your Intellivision]

I have recently tried to load D2K Arcade into my Cuttle Cart, and man.....it is lucky that I am already bald, cause I would be pulling my freaking hair out!

Has anyone seen such a hard to use piece of sofware before? The source is on the CC3 Website.....I wish that someone would take the time to write a better version of this for the Intellivision community.

I messed with it for hours before I could finally get it to create a menu for a game it didn't already know about.

Any takers?

[GroovyBee]

It might be easier to make a better manual .

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Naw, I know the procedure that you have to use to make a proper menu system, but it is SOOOO finicky! For example, if you put a ROM in the GAMES directory, it doesn't show up when you 'scan' a directory to add more games....it says 'Already in the Games Directory!" but........it doesn't show up in the list for you to add it to a menu!

It really is a nasty piece of......shhhhh.......software...

[crade]

Sounds like user error to me!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Really? When a clever guy like Carl needs help to get the Cuttle Cart 3 to run his own game.....only to be guided by myself, who spent an entire day figuring out why it wouldn't work.....hardly........you need a PHD in shitty software to figure it out.

I am serious when I say that this needs to be looked at....i have my plate full however.

[jaybird3rd]

I don't know ... maybe I'm weird, but I didn't find it to be that hard. It certainly could have been easier, but once I figured it out, I was able to build a categorized menu system, including "shortcuts" back to the root menu, without too much trouble. I'd imagine that the menu software wasn't intended to be frequently used; most CC3 owners probably set up all their Intellivision cartridge images at once, and don't really need to touch the menus again after that.

If you're using the CC3 for development, it might be faster to use its serial interface for direct code uploads instead of copying binaries to the memory card, but that would require an upload program which implements the CC3's communication protocols (I believe Chad provides some sample code).

[revolutionika]

Someone ask chad Schell to make it user friendlier!

[GroovyBee]

I don't think Chad logs on to AA much any more.

[revolutionika]

 GroovyBee, on Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:37 PM, said:

I don't think Chad logs on to AA much any more.

maybe contact him through his site?

i wouldnt know what to ask/tell him!

[GroovyBee]

You need to give good constructive criticism to the developer. For example, instead of saying "you need a PHD in shitty software to figure it out" (which is completely demotivating) it would be better to come up with a theoretical method of operation that would get games onto the CC3 with the minimum of fuss (as a step by step document, flow chart, basically whatever floats your boat). The original developer could then code some software to achieve that. If the original developer wasn't interested then the spec would be there for somebody else to pick up the baton and run with it.

[revolutionika]

 GroovyBee, on Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:12 PM, said:

You need to give good constructive criticism to the developer. For example, instead of saying "you need a PHD in shitty software to figure it out" (which is completely demotivating) it would be better to come up with a theoretical method of operation that would get games onto the CC3 with the minimum of fuss (as a step by step document, flow chart, basically whatever floats your boat). The original developer could then code some software to achieve that. If the original developer wasn't interested then the spec would be there for somebody else to pick up the baton and run with it.

I vote that you do it!

If 'gamesforyourintellivision' does it, Chad may write in some virus into the CC3 programming or something! LOLOLOLOL




(and yes, i know that is probably impossible, smartypants!)

[GroovyBee]

 revolutionika, on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:01 PM, said:

I vote that you do it!

It's been a while since I used my CC3 . I'm probably not the best person to write a guide on how to "do it better" because I don't remember struggling all that much to get my own homebrew games onto my CC3.

[intvnut]

 jaybird3rd, on Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM, said:

f you're using the CC3 for development, it might be faster to use its serial interface for direct code uploads instead of copying binaries to the memory card, but that would require an upload program which implements the CC3's communication protocols (I believe Chad provides some sample code).

jzIntv / SDK-1600 has the necessary tools to convert a ROM into CC3's serial line format. To send it to the cart, you just need something that will set the line to 8-N-1, any speed up to 115.2kbps, and will block copy the file onto the COM port.

That's how I do it. From Linux, I just "cat mygame.rom > /dev/ttyUSB0" and off it goes. (My CC3 has a USB serial connection built into the cable. You can find them at Mouser, but they're a little pricey.) I don't know the best way to send something raw over the serial port in Windows. There may have been a port of the Intellicart serial loader at one time that handled that, but a quick poke around Chad's website didn't turn anything up.

The tools in jzIntv that you can use for the CC3:

• You can assemble a game in CC3 format by adding the '-c' flag on the command line, and either omitting the extension on the output file, or using one of ".rom" or ".cc3".
  
• You can convert a file in BIN+CFG format to CC3 with "bin2rom --cc3 foo.bin"
  
• You can convert a file in Intellicart .ROM format to CC3 with "rom_merge --cc3 input.rom output.rom"

BTW, jzIntv itself will read a CC3 file directly. They're identical to Intellicart format ROMs, except for the first byte.

Note, you'll need a more recent build of the SDK tools than what came with "Beta 3". I have some builds from about a year ago on my webserver. Those should be relatively up to date:

http://spatula-city....01224-win32.zip
http://spatula-city....1224-macosx.zip
http://spatula-city....-i686-linux.zip
http://spatula-city....86_64-linux.zip

[Games For Your Intellivision]

"You need to give good constructive criticism to the developer. For example, instead of saying "you need a PHD in shitty software to figure it out" (which is completely demotivating) it would be better to come up with a theoretical method of operation that would get games onto the CC3 with the minimum of fuss (as a step by step document, flow chart, basically whatever floats your boat). The original developer could then code some software to achieve that. If the original developer wasn't interested then the spec would be there for somebody else to pick up the baton and run with it."

How about just fixing the bugs?

Imagine you have your cuttle cart set up the first time....and then you get a new ROM that works with CC3.....you put that ROM into the GAMES directory......if you try to 'add' the game to a menu, it doesn't show up in the menu program..........so, no problem right? .....just 'add' the game using the add button.........press 'add'........go to the GAMES directory.....select file..........it will tell you that the game is 'already there' abort.......but it doesn't show up in the menu.....the 'trick' is that you have to ADD FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTORY.......just because you want to place a rom directly into the GAMES directory, shouldn't break the software. It isn't as if there hasn't been a few years to fix it.......I guess since you guys never add roms to your menu in this manner, it is ok to say 'user error'......Crade insults my intelligence, when I point out this software has a lot of issues.

[GroovyBee]

 Games For Your Intellivision, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:31 AM, said:

I guess since you guys never add roms to your menu in this manner, it is ok to say 'user error'

Unfortunately you can't tar everybody with the same brush. As an Intellivision game developer I've added my own homebrew games and other peoples to my CC3 without too much hassle.

In the retro scene if software doesn't work as expected typically you'd :-

- Find a workaround if possible.
- Make a constructive bug report so the original author can do something about it (if they are still around).
- If that fails then fix the software yourself (if you can and the source code is available).
- If you can't fix it yourself then appealing to other programmers to help out might work.
- If that fails then you'll have to write your own version of it (if you can) or wait for something better to come along.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Yeah and you don't blame the user because the software breaks so easily.

Anyhow, my original post is still valid....if anyone wants to fix this software, it would benefit people who buy the cuttle cart.

If you don't think there is a problem, fine. Whatever.

[GroovyBee]

 Games For Your Intellivision, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:25 AM, said:

Yeah and you don't blame the user because the software breaks so easily.

I didn't say it was user error.

Quote

Anyhow, my original post is still valid....if anyone wants to fix this software, it would benefit people who buy the cuttle cart.

And so is mine . Asking for help is the way forward if you can't get the job done on your own.

Quote

If you don't think there is a problem, fine. Whatever.

I never said that there wasn't a problem. I said that I don't remember it being a struggle.

[ls650]

Instead of complaining in a public forum, it might be more helpful if you sent the developer of the CC3 a politely-written email addressing your concerns. Constructive criticism can be taken well; calling something 'shitty' can not.

I wrote the CC3 developer an email about two weeks ago, asking a couple of brief questions regarding the CC3, and he wrote me back within a day.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

"I didn't say it was user error"

I never said you did, Crade did.

If Chad was willing to fix it (I asked him when he was going to polish it up years ago), he would have done so. I don't have time. The source is out there.

Seriously, you guys (the people in this forum) talk to people as if they are stupid, and then criticise them for getting pissed off for being offended, and respond in a patronizing tone.

I really am not enjoying my time in these forums........and yeah, I'm sure someone is going to say 'why don't you leave then?'

[jaybird3rd]

 Games For Your Intellivision, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:02 AM, said:

I really am not enjoying my time in these forums........and yeah, I'm sure someone is going to say 'why don't you leave then?'

Well, after reading your posts in this thread, and after the whole "your copy of Donkey Kong Arcade is obsolete!" dust-up in the other thread, it seems to me that your characteristic style is unnecessarily confrontational and combative. I think you will need to reconsider your approach if you really want to be in the business of publishing games for the Intellivision. Becoming a successful publisher in a niche "market" such as classic games will require establishing a good reputation among classic gaming enthusiasts. Among other things, this involves creating a sense of good will and building positive relationships with others who are active in the community, which will include your potential customers. Based on the brash attitude that I've seen evidenced here, I am not left with a positive impression.

[GroovyBee]

 Games For Your Intellivision, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:02 AM, said:

"I didn't say it was user error"

I never said you did, Crade did.

Without correctly quoting who you are responding to it looked like you were replying to me.

Quote

If Chad was willing to fix it (I asked him when he was going to polish it up years ago), he would have done so. I don't have time. The source is out there.

We all have reasons for not doing things. I'm sure you do too. It doesn't mean its acceptable to criticise people for it. You yourself just said that you haven't got the time, so maybe Chad doesn't either.

Quote

Seriously, you guys (the people in this forum) talk to people as if they are stupid, and then criticise them for getting pissed off for being offended, and respond in a patronizing tone.

When you come into an existing forum where the regulars have chatted for years and helped each other solve problems, worked on projects together, bought homebrew games, traded and then start saying things are "obsolete" and "shitty" in your first few posts, you'll get noticed but not for good reasons.

Quote

I really am not enjoying my time in these forums........and yeah, I'm sure someone is going to say 'why don't you leave then?'

Maybe you need to take a step back and look at your posting style. If not, head on over to the Jaguar forum. I'm sure you'll fit right in there .

[boxpressed]

http://venturebeat.c...-measly-emails/

[crade]

 Games For Your Intellivision, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:02 AM, said:

"I didn't say it was user error"

I never said you did, Crade did.

It was only a joke.. sheesh
I'm a developer. It's always user error to me!
First thing I say when QA walks to my office, before they even open their mouth... User Error!

Edited by crade, Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:58 AM.

[intvnut]

 crade, on Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:57 AM, said:

First thing I say when QA walks to my office, before they even open their mouth... User Error!

*chuckle*

[Carl Mueller Jr]

I would not take Willy's post too seriously. Truthfully, the software IS in need of improvement and he certainly could have expressed that in another way. I'm sure we all grateful for Chad's work on the CC3. If the source code to the menu software is available, may be I will dip into it at some point and see if I can make it easier to use.

One question though – is the CC3 still being made? If I'm going to invest time in this, I'd like to make sure that it still current product.

Personally, I love my Intellicart because it's so convenient for development. :-) I just hope it never breaks.

Carl

Edited by Carl Mueller Jr, Wed Feb 1, 2012 1:22 PM.