9 replies to this topic

[segawallnut]

I have an model 1 Sega Genesis and A Retron 3 system, And my passion is classic gaming, so recently I started wanting to capture my gameplay action, Now here the funny/weird part in my opinion, The Nes And SNes capture material looks good, but the Genesis capture always comes out in greyscale or Black & White (which ever U prefer).

So Help please, and although a list of compatible video/capture will help , can any one tell why this is happening.

[Reaperman]

I can't really give all the help you want on this one, except by noting that genesis video isn't in a format all modern devices support. My main TV, for example, chokes on almost all genesis games, even though it plays everything else I throw at it (phantasy star iv is all I can get to work, but the cutscenes black-out). Over on sega-16, I heard mention that it was a funny video mode genesis often does (240p). I've also heard here something about inconsistent video signal out of the system by design. Not sure which (if either) it is, but genesis video is screwy.

I've seen an episode of CGR(?) on youtube where he briefly goes into the change he had to make to record genesis--I believe it was a 'behind the scenes' video. May want to try looking that up.

How I get it to work on my TV, is that I bought a box that upscales it to VGA...poorly...

Edited by Reaperman, Fri Feb 3, 2012 5:46 PM.

[Chilly Willy]

The primary culprit on Genesis video not capturing properly is the video lines aren't a proper multiple of the color subcarrier. Lines are SUPPOSED to be 227.5 clocks per line (which is the source of the odd color problems NTSC has), but the Genesis uses 228 clocks instead. This shifts all the timing down to the frame rate, but CRTs are fairly immune to minor shifts like that. However, modern LCD TVs and capture cards often get thrown off by these changes, and either don't show an image at all, or show it wrong (bad/no colors, waving, etc).

Edited by Chilly Willy, Fri Feb 3, 2012 6:13 PM.

[FujiSkunk]

You mentioned trying the Retron as well, so different hardware apparently doesn't help.

You might try a trick like running the video through a VCR first, using the TV output on the Genesis 1 instead of an A/V cable. Ideally none of these should make a difference since the same signal source is behind them all, but you might get lucky. Analog equipment can be funny that way.

[FujiSkunk]

The good news is it is possible to do Sega Genesis captures if you have the right configuration:

 GenesisScreenCap.png   98.99K   7 downloads

This is with an early Genesis 1 (boasting "high definition graphics") connected to a Micomsoft XMD-3 RGB-to-S-video converter, and captured by a 10-year-old ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon. I suppose this is something of a cheat since the NTSC video signal is generated by the converter and not the Genesis itself, but the resulting screen caps are quite lovely.

If anyone is curious I can see how well the ATI handles the Genesis's composite video output without the converter.

Edited by FujiSkunk, Sat Feb 4, 2012 2:02 AM.

[segawallnut]

Thanks for all the feedback, What about an 15khz converter that yu can get on ebay, which would convert to vga, reason Iam asking is I have A Samsung 17 inch CRT Monitor I want to use with my genesis. ALSO TO Mention I saw A Genesis adapter to Super nintendo, Which changes the pins to allow the Genesis games to play on SNES. It looks like about the same size as the Genesis game genie.

That should in theory work right since the SNES captures are fine. But Its Expensive so I wanted a second opinion first.

[FujiSkunk]

segawallnut, on Sat Feb 4, 2012 8:03 AM, said:

What about an 15khz converter that yu can get on ebay, which would convert to vga

It depends on which signal it is converting to VGA. If it is using the Genesis's RGB output, then I imagine it would be okay, and probably look very nice on the Samsung. But if it's using the composite output, then it's not going to look any better than what you're used to seeing already, and you may get the black-and-white issue all over again.

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ALSO TO Mention I saw A Genesis adapter to Super nintendo, Which changes the pins to allow the Genesis games to play on SNES.

I'm curious about those too, and I'm tempted to buy one just for the novelty. What's most likely happening is the cartridge itself is handling all of the processing and just feeding audio and video to the SNES console. If so, I believe you are correct in assuming captures from the Genesis-on-a-SNES would not be a problem. However, depending on how "authentic" you want to be with your captures, keep in mind the cartridge is like any other modern Genesis-compatible console: based on reverse engineering, not made by Sega, and likely to show imperfections in some games.

[segawallnut]

Yes Valid point to there being not authentic, and would not be near as fun to play with SNES Controller. But on to the 15KHz Converter, Iam using a scart to component converter right now, so I would be looking at the component to vga for the monitor, but does the Genesis output at 15KHz ???


So what U R saying is u belive there the adapter would be handling the processing, I was asuming the adapter would be more of an PIN adatper, just correcting the pin difference and letting the SNES do the rest, Kay so if you are correct than I dont want any part of it. VERY Intresting.

Edited by segawallnut, Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:54 AM.

[FujiSkunk]

segawallnut, on Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:48 AM, said:

But on to the 15KHz Converter, Iam using a scart to component converter right now, so I would be looking at the component to vga for the monitor, but does the Genesis output at 15KHz ??

I haven't done a lot with the Genesis RGB connection beyond investing in the XMB-3, which was made specifically for the Genesis for connecting with S-video, so this is where my ignorance is beginning to show. In other words, take everything I say here with a grain of salt.

My understanding is the Genesis's RGB video does use a 15kHz signal. It also uses a composite sync signal, where VGA monitors require separate horizontal and vertical sync signals. Some people have successfully connected their Genesises to VGA monitors, but only with the help of an intelligent circuit programmed to repurpose the different video signals into something a VGA monitor can understand. A simple wire-to-wire connection won't work.

However, it sounds like you may already have the necessary hardware. If I'm reading you correctly, you have a Genesis SCART cable, an adapter for converting SCART to component, and an adapter for converting component to VGA. You may lose a little bit of signal quality going through multiple adapters, but otherwise, as long as the adapters work fine on their own, I don't see why they wouldn't work when linked together.

Quote

So what U R saying is u believe there the adapter would be handling the processing, I was assuming the adapter would be more of an PIN adapter, just correcting the pin difference and letting the SNES do the rest...

No, the SNES and the Genesis have very different designs, and a simple pin swap is not possible. What I believe makes the Genesis cartridge possible is a way for the SNES to accept video and audio created by the cartridge itself, and pass that audio and video along to the SNES's A/V outputs. Actually several old consoles have this ability. The Atari 5200 can accept audio and video through its cartridge port, which is how its Atari 2600 adapter works. The Atari 2600 itself has a somewhat unintentional ability to accept audio through the cartridge port, which Pitfall II and its embedded sound chip takes advantage of. This ability allows the cartridge to do all the work, and use the console as little more than a pass-through. It's a novel way of doing it, but again, it's only as good as the technology within the cartridge. From what I've seen, modern Genesis-compatible consoles are pretty good, but not perfect.

Edited by FujiSkunk, Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:11 PM.

[segawallnut]

Oh I dont have the 15khz converter it over $100 and I wanted some feedback to here if it would make an big inprovment first.

Something else I'd like to toss into mix. TIME BASE CORRECTOR will they fix the issue of my captures being with no colour??