58 replies to this topic

[desiv]

I tend to agree..
The original PC (5150), probably will be collectible.
But the 90's/2000's PCs..
I just don't see it..
Emulation is very good and I don't see people "longing" for the hardware....

I think several of the games will be classics, definately (as much as I'm not a fan of PC gaming, there were classics), but I don't see people building/keeping machines to play them....

Not like you see with the other retro hardware...

desiv

[The Usotsuki]

How about the 5160 (my avatar), the PCjr and various pre-286 tier Tandy 1000s? xD

[desiv]

The Usotsuki, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:24 PM, said:

How about the 5160 (my avatar), the PCjr and various pre-286 tier Tandy 1000s? xD

Well, I consider the 5160 in the same range as the 5150, so I suppose.
PCjr???
Hmm.. If only for the keyboard..
The Tandy's.. I'm leaning less and less towards those... Nothing against them, but you're getting to be just clones at that point.

Although they did have some style...

Personally, I love Commodore machines, but the Colt line couldn't interest me less than it does... Just another PC..

desiv

[Keatah]

the 5160 and 5170 could become collectibles, but not, and never, to the extent that the 5150 could. Those closer you get to clones the more the value drops. Ok. I don't see the ps/1 or ps/2 or jr. ever becoming worth anything unless it's a new in box type deal.

What's more interesting is the system configuration, the type/performance of hardware, not necessarily a specific brand of board like quadram or ast for example.

I wonder, if through attrition, non-classics could become classics. And I'm not talking those clones drunks build in their apartments. You know, when no one thinks they're worth anything - and everything gets thrown out - or crushed and recycled - or becomes landfill material, if systems are made "rare" by those activities, then won't the surviving examples gain value?

[akator]

Isn't the PC Jr. already somewhat collectible? It wasn't the best selling machine, and I recall a few working examples going for quite a bit over the last few years.

There's no doubt that some of the early PCs are collectible, even some of the early clones. The luggable Kayrpo and Compaq come to mind. It's when things hit the AT stage and beyond that interest drops off dramatically. Even some of the really cool early laptops are mostly overlooked by collectors, which is a little surprising.

I agree with what most others have said, though, that commodity PC clones from the late 80s onward will probably never be of much interest. These machines are currently still a dime a dozen for $20, and many times people can't even give them away. The lack of brand, aesthetic, and hardware differentiation (unlike Apple/Amiga/Atari/Commodore computers) will prevent any specific commodity PC from being more than a passing curiosity at best.

That doesn't mean PCs from that era can't be a lot of fun, just that it's unlikely their collectability will substantially increase. Add to that all of the drivers and annoyances required to get software running (many details of which have been mostly lost) then compare that to the relative ease of use with emulators and virtual machines. It is significantly easier to get a game running in DOSBox than most hardware from the same era.

Of course, there are always exceptions. I'm sure there must be a few collectible post-AT machines out there... right?

[Keatah]

It has been briefly hinted (in this thread) that emulation could lessen the desire for original (PC) hardware. The likes of DosBox and other VM's allow older programs to run just fine on today's latest hardware. That is without a doubt. In fact, emulation may be the preferred method for dealing with multiple config.sys and autoexec.bat files. I know it is for me! There's so much less hassle. And, you're still running in an x86 environment.

Now, while emulation may tend to "de-value" the original (PC) hardware somewhat, I believe that "de-valuing" only occurs on the this platform. I believe we just consider emulation as another configuration issue in the big picture of the PC landscape. A load this and then this scenario type deal.

It is interesting (but hardly surprising) to note that emulation doesn't lessen the value of real classic hardware like the Apple 2 series, or c64 or 400/800 and others. Here, emulation takes the position of becoming complimentary and adds some ass-kick'n functionality to the experience of using classic hardware. The debugging potential, the cracking (copy protection removal), testing, running bogged-down Applesoft Basic programs at lightspeed with AppleWin. Quick checks of disk images. And many more things like that.

How does emulation and having a modern PC enhance your classic gaming & computing experience?

For me the PC fits into classic computing by:

1 - being a ready reference consisting of thousands of manuals, books, pdf's, and the internet
2 - being a file manipulator, a way to mix, match, compose disk images with utilities (such as CiderPress for the Apple 2 series)
3 - allowing me to play Atari 2600 games wherever, whenever, through emulation.
4 - allowing me to access many different configurations of memory, sound, and graphics cards (DosBox PC)
5 - serving as a backup system for old software.

There are other reasons, surely, but those hit the spot.

[tyranthraxus]

I didn't seen any mention of the IBM PS/1. The PS/1 has a good look and was possibly the last major attempt to market at an all-in-wonder computer for the mass market, other than Apple. (And I would argue that Apple was declining into a niche market, not a mass market, in the 1990s). In addition to the design, I think having the IBM name on it makes it interesting as a collectors item, which also makes the Aptiva interesting.

The Aptiva was IBMs follow up to the PS/1. Its just a generic ugly tower, but I think the 90s tower need a bit of branding or history behind them to make it collector worthy and the Aptiva has both. Its the last IBM series of home computers before they left the market and as IBM was having a feud with Microsoft at the time they had difficulty getting Windows 95 with the machine.

Interesting branding oddities might also make some other towers collectible. There are few Commodore branded pc towers out there and the Tandy name lasted into the 486 era.

I suppose another question is whether or not 90s software is becoming collectible or is it still being viewed as mass market trash. Last I looked seemed anything that was off the CD-ROM era (mid 90s) that didn't have the name Ultima (or other long running RPG) didn't attract much attention.

Edited by tyranthraxus, Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:17 PM.

[Silntdoogood]

If they do, I'll be rich.

I'm currently using a tower of towers as a privacy barrier in my one room. There is easily over a dozen of them stacked up,not to mention the two I'm using as table legs, and all the boards covering my one wall. Cool looking motif for as cheap as it was to do.

[wood_jl]

I can see the 5150 being collectable, simply because it's the first. BUT WHAT A BORING MACHINE IT IS.

Collecting for just about anything else (Atari, Commodore,etc. ) - at least you get a machine that could do wonderful graphics and sound. They're about the same age, yet they're FUN machines. Also, the fact that these fun dinosaurs aren't around anymore (in lineage) makes them unique.

I'd rather have one of those early "brick" cellphones than a 5150 anyway, if I wanted to collect obsolete tech.




They're both just about as useless and outdated, but at least the brick cellphone is good for a laugh, and certainly would be a conversation piece. The 5150 may raise the eyebrow of the most ardent nerd, but it really just looks - to most people - like any old boring beige box, like something that should have gone to E-waste and still needs to. It can't wow any of your senses like the other brands from its era, because PCs really sucked ass back then.

Edited by wood_jl, Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:05 PM.