21 replies to this topic

[krypton85]

I'm considering getting into collecting 8-Bit games and was wondering what the best system to get would be. I'll probably start with cartridges, and work my way up to disk / cassette. Would an XEGS do the trick? Does it play the older cartridges? How much RAM would I need to run things smoothly? So many questions!

[19Echo]

800xl or 130xe

[krypton85]

Thank you for the suggestion, just curious if the later XE games will play on the XL, or do I have to opt for an XE system?

[Sub(Function(:))]

for cart based games any atari will do, XEGS, XL or XE.

for 90% of disk/cassette games again any will do.

Some games will uses the extra 64K in the 130xe for "enhancements" to the game. I think games like mercenary used a higher resolution graphics mode.

The main difference between the three machines is the expansion port on the back of the computer.
XEGS has not got one.
XL has one and separate cartridge port on the top of the unit
XE has the cartridge port on the back of the unit and a second port next to it that contains extra signals to allow external devices
most add ons for this expansion port come in two variaties, on for XL and one for XE.
however there were only a few add ons for this expansion port.

I would say, if you go for an XEGS make sure you get a keyboard for it, as this will be needed for a lot of games

Also if you want to play games with the light gun, you will need a old style CRT TV or monitor. It will not work with newer flat screens.

[Philsan]

Topic for newbies

[krypton85]

Wonderful thread Philsan, thank you!

[WizWor]

The XEGS has better video out of the box than any other Atari computer. If you are not going to use the expansion port or make hardware modifications to improve the video, this is the best computer for you. Same with the memory. 64k is plenty for games and most other programs. If that is how you plan to use the computer, the XEGS is still the best system for you.

I have a 1200xl, a couple 130XEs, and an 800XL. My everyday machine is an XEGS. I have it attached to an LCD via the composite out. I haven't powered up a disk drive in years. Though I have boxes of cartridges, I generally play games off an SDrive.

If I were going to assemble an Atari system for showcasing, I'd get an 800, 810, 825, and 410 or a 1200xl, 1050, 1027, and 1010, but to play the old games, you cannot beat an XEGS with an SDrive. I cannot speak to the case of a hobbyist interested in customizing the hardware, but plenty of the posters here can help if you are so inclined.

My favorite joystick is the cx40, but they are not durable. My everyday stick is a Wico Command Control stick. I have a pair that will likely work as designed long after I cease to.

It's also worth noting that light guns do not work with LCDs. It's still cool to have one, but, unless you have a CRT, don't plan on using a light gun.

XEGS on ebay
Wico CC on ebay (you need two)
SDrive

Have fun!

[flashjazzcat]

Note that the XEGS only does composite out - NOT separate Y/C as do most of the other 8-bits. The XEGS might have the best composite video output (not that I can attest to that personally), but luma / chroma on a set which has suitable inputs is generally of higher quality, in my experience at least. I realize such TVs / monitors can be a rarity outside of Europe, however.

[krypton85]

Thanks for all the input. I just want it to play cartridge based games, so It looks like an XEGS would be the way to go. I already have two WC sticks, they're great!

[mimo]

There are a few very early carts that will not work on an xl/xe/xegs, the k-razy range for example.
It's also worth noting that the xegs with keyboard takes up more than double the desk space of an xl/xe

Edited by mimo, Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:24 AM.

[AtariLeaf]

mimo, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:22 AM, said:

There are a few very early carts that will not work on an xl/xe/xegs, the k-razy range for example.

Really? I have K-Razy Shootout, the slightly rarer K-Byte version, and it works fine on my 800XL. The only game that won't run is Gorf. I want to get an 800 so I can finally play it.

[yell0w_lantern]

XL would probably be the cheapest to obtain.

[sloopy]

I have put Chroma/Luma output in an XEGS, used the two RCA jacks that are already on it for Chroma and Luma instead of Composite and Audio, and then added a 1/8" stereo jack for sound (machine was also fitted with dual pokeys). and ran great... Only issue was there was no composite output so a Chroma/Luma or S-Video capable monitor was required unless you ran RF...

And i will agree the XEGS is a great machine, but then all of them are good... any XL or XE will be fine for playing games, and such. Cost or availability can be more a factor in selection then anything else, as what separates the differences in these machines, can be added with some (or alot) of work...

sloopy.

[Marius1976]

Important note to people who think that XEGS will play all the carts.

The XEGS does NOT play all the existing Atari 8bit carts very well. Most of them yes, but all no.

The games that check for all the four joystick ports (found on atari 400 and 800) act weird on XEGS.

Basketball for instance does real strange things on XEGS.

Keep that in mind.

I think Atari 800XL is the best choice, get yourself some extra memory and you have a wonderfull machine.

[sloopy]

Marius1976, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:54 AM, said:

Important note to people who think that XEGS will play all the carts.

The XEGS does NOT play all the existing Atari 8bit carts very well. Most of them yes, but all no.

The games that check for all the four joystick ports (found on atari 400 and 800) act weird on XEGS.

Basketball for instance does real strange things on XEGS.

Keep that in mind.

I think Atari 800XL is the best choice, get yourself some extra memory and you have a wonderfull machine.

then any XL/XE would have this issue as none of them have 4 joystick ports, no?

sloopy.

[mimo]

AtariLeaf, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:09 AM, said:

mimo, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:22 AM, said:

There are a few very early carts that will not work on an xl/xe/xegs, the k-razy range for example.

Really? I have K-Razy Shootout, the slightly rarer K-Byte version, and it works fine on my 800XL. The only game that won't run is Gorf. I want to get an 800 so I can finally play it.

you are correct, my mistake, I was thinking of K-Razy Antiks and K-razy Kritters

[Marius1976]

sloopy, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:03 AM, said:

then any XL/XE would have this issue as none of them have 4 joystick ports, no?

sloopy.

No. I forgot to mention that this is all because of the keyboard and cartridge detection part.

With and without keyboard/cartridge there are certain flags en/disabled. This is the reason of all this incompatibility.

Unfortunately booting with or without select does not change this. Only a hardware-hack would fix this.

[flashjazzcat]

sloopy, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:52 AM, said:

I have put Chroma/Luma output in an XEGS, used the two RCA jacks that are already on it for Chroma and Luma instead of Composite and Audio, and then added a 1/8" stereo jack for sound (machine was also fitted with dual pokeys). and ran great... Only issue was there was no composite output so a Chroma/Luma or S-Video capable monitor was required unless you ran RF...

I put a DIN-5 where the RF mod used to be and kept the composite / audio RCAs alongside chroma / luma / audio on the DIN.

[sloopy]

Marius1976, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:20 AM, said:

sloopy, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:03 AM, said:

then any XL/XE would have this issue as none of them have 4 joystick ports, no?

sloopy.

No. I forgot to mention that this is all because of the keyboard and cartridge detection part.

With and without keyboard/cartridge there are certain flags en/disabled. This is the reason of all this incompatibility.

Unfortunately booting with or without select does not change this. Only a hardware-hack would fix this.

The kb basically shows its connection status by 'pushing' the joystick button on joystick 3 or 4 (dont rem which), so four player games would probably have an issue if pushing the button started them immediately...

flashjazzcat, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:24 AM, said:

sloopy, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:52 AM, said:

I have put Chroma/Luma output in an XEGS, used the two RCA jacks that are already on it for Chroma and Luma instead of Composite and Audio, and then added a 1/8" stereo jack for sound (machine was also fitted with dual pokeys). and ran great... Only issue was there was no composite output so a Chroma/Luma or S-Video capable monitor was required unless you ran RF...

I put a DIN-5 where the RF mod used to be and kept the composite / audio RCAs alongside chroma / luma / audio on the DIN.

yeah many ways of doing it, this person wanted only the RCA's... made connection to a 1702 simple, and not require a cable that was specific...

not that many of us probably have more AV cables then monitors for our A8s ;')

sloopy.

[Marius1976]

sloopy, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:37 AM, said:

The kb basically shows its connection status by 'pushing' the joystick button on joystick 3 or 4 (dont rem which), so four player games would probably have an issue if pushing the button started them immediately...

It is not just that! When you play basketball against the computer (so joystick port 3 and 4 shouldn't be used at all) the computerplayer still get's confused when the trigger of port 3 or 4 is pressed. So this means that on XEGS this game is unplayable. You simply can not play it. As soon as the computer player plays the ball it moves all over the screen. (It's a pass to another player, which isn't at the field! )

In fact it is a small bug in Basketball but ok. It does not work on XEGS. This problem does not occur on XL/XE

Yoomp. Does not play on XEGS. I have tried it with my SIC cart. It works great on XL/XE but it refuses to load on XEGS. I guess it works WITH the keyboard attached, but hey... the keyboard is not needed for Basketball, it is not needed for yoomp, but these games won't work without it.

And there are more games. A few months ago I tried one of my XEGS's with the SIC cart. I wanted to create a SIC cart full of games which do never need a keypress. So that is what would make the XEGS without keyboard real cool with this SIC!

But I found out after creating this SIC that there were a few games not running properly without the keyboard (although no keyboard is needed).

Perhaps I should redo this, and make a list of these games.

[krypton85]

After looking around the 800XL does seem like a better option. Anyone have an extra laying around they're willing to trade?

[flashjazzcat]

sloopy, on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:37 AM, said:

...not that many of us probably have more AV cables then monitors for our A8s ;')

Heh - alarmingly, I have at least twice as many monitors as I do cables.