37 replies to this topic

[Clock]

I was thinking about this, as I used to code in Assembler on the old Commodore64.

I am a bit confused on a few issues though

?1 When coding software, how can you test it?

?2 How do you transfer it into a cartridge? (maybe that should read Who? and How much?)

I don't think my asembler skill are up to the task though (never were), I also think I have forgotten more than I can remember!

There must be somebody out there who is very clever and can overcome the obstacles. I would be happy to pay a premium for a Pal Homebrew (assuming it was a good game).

Maybe if someone wanted the challenge we can start a thread on what 8bit games we'd all like to see most converted to the 7800 and then the programmer can try and make the most popular (i.e. will sell the most copies)

[EricBall]

I think one of the other reasons there hasn't been lots of homebrew development is the level of expectation. Consider that the 7800 has several exceptionally good arcade translations. It would be difficult for the average homebrewer to create something of similar quality.

In contrast, the 2600 is a very restrictive platofrm, where a skilled homebrewer can leverage the knowledge of the existing developer community to create games with comparable (if not higher) quality than the most original releases.

For example, Skeleton has been praised for being a fairly impressive 2600 game. But if I were to simply port Skeleton to the 7800 without significantly improving the graphics, I am sure it would be scorned.

The 7800 also doesn't have an inexpensive RAM cart, like the 2600 SuperCharger, which developers could use to test non-bankswitched games on actual hardware. (Sorry Chad, but US$250+MMC costs doesn't qualify as inexpensive.) Which means emulators & EPROMs.

[CPUWIZ]

EricBall said:

I think one of the other reasons there hasn't been lots of homebrew development is the level of expectation.  Consider that the 7800 has several exceptionally good arcade translations.  It would be difficult for the average homebrewer to create something of similar quality.

In contrast, the 2600 is a very restrictive platofrm, where a skilled homebrewer can leverage the knowledge of the existing developer community to create games with comparable (if not higher) quality than the most original releases.

For example, Skeleton has been praised for being a fairly impressive 2600 game.  But if I were to simply port Skeleton to the 7800 without significantly improving the graphics, I am sure it would be scorned.

The 7800 also doesn't have an inexpensive RAM cart, like the 2600 SuperCharger, which developers could use to test non-bankswitched games on actual hardware.  (Sorry Chad, but US$250+MMC costs doesn't qualify as inexpensive.)  Which means emulators & EPROMs.

Or you get yourself an EPROM emulator from eBay for under $100.00 and modify a 7800 cart to interface to it.

[EricBall]

CPUWIZ said:

Or you get yourself an EPROM emulator from eBay for under $100.00 and modify a 7800 cart to interface to it.  

For $100 I can (and did) get both the 2600 and the SuperCharger and have $$ left over. Burning EPROMs also takes more time than downloading to the SuperCharger.

[CPUWIZ]

You don't need to burn anthing with an EPROM emulator and it's 100 times faster than a SuperCharger.

[cschell]

EricBall said:

(Sorry Chad, but US$250+MMC costs doesn't qualify as inexpensive.)

First it was $200.00 + MMC, the extra $50 was figuring in your costs to buy an MMC and flash writer. But regardless I never said it was inexpensive, nor do I feel that it is. It's cool (IMO), but very pricey.

Second, Eckhard and gang have plans for all kinds of cheap homemade RAM carts to build for the 7800 if you have soldering skills. This makes for a very cheap solution.

Eprom emulators, RAM carts, eproms, eeproms, nvram, etc. There are lots of options.

Chad

[sku_u]

I think that basically because the 7800 does not have nearly as many limitations as the 2600 or 5200, programmers may not see it as all that much of a challenge to make games for the 7800. If someone were to make a 7800 homebrew, it probably wouldn't go over too well unless it was something like Pac-Man or possibly some of the better NES releases. Since the 7800 didn't go over very well commercially, it is probably looked down on even by a lot of people who post here as the forgotten system or an inferior NES/Sega.

[ubersaurus]

I'd say its just because it doesn't have as large a fan base the 7800 has more limitations on what it can do then the NES or SMS in alot of respects...it's archetiecture(sp) is similar to that of the older consoles. It just happens more people had those ones back in the day then the 7800, so more folks care to work with it. Plus, the 7800 hasn't been well documented due to the small number of people who have worked with it in modern times.

[EricBall]

cschell said:

First it was $200.00 + MMC, the extra $50 was figuring in your costs to buy an MMC and flash writer.  But regardless I never said it was inexpensive, nor do I feel that it is.  It's cool (IMO), but very pricey.

Sorry, didn't mean my statement in that way. And yes, it is very cool. (But so is the CuttleCart. Maybe this one should be the CuttleCart Pro )

cschell said:

Second, Eckhard and gang have plans for all kinds of cheap homemade RAM carts to build for the 7800 if you have soldering skills.  This makes for a very cheap solution.

This will be interesting to me if they can get the price of the PCB & parts in at a reasonable level. (And it doesn't require soldering micro surface mounts.)

[cschell]

The ones I was referring to all involve modifying an original Atari 7800 cart. It's basically just replacing the ROM with SRAM and making a few changes to make it writable.

I believe there's a version that requires modifying the 7800, and one that does not.

They're DIY projects, not kits.

Chad

[CPUWIZ]

AFAIK, each one of them requires the BIOS of the 7800 to be swapped out with Eckhard's.

[Mitch]

Not all of them require you to mod your 7800. The latest plans have a RAM cart that only requires you to mod a cart. Of course, you can't dump games with it then, but it plays 95% of the games.

Mitch

[Video]

I would love to see some homebrew games on the 7800. I love the 7800 because it has such a wide base of games. It plays most 2600 games (Including every homebrew I've tried so far) As well as having games that only run on it.

Hey Eric BAll.... You wouldn't have to do to much on skeleton to make a great 7800 game. The skeletons would have to be redrawn to look more to 7800 standards. As for the backgound, I'm sure the 7800 can support much thinner vector lines as a background, at a greated draw distance. And the hardware's enough more powerful, that you could probably slide the screen forward, rather than skipping like on Skeleton. Well, come to think of it, that's a lot in assembler hours to do those few modifications.

Either way, I'd buy it.

But I think someone did hit it dead on, the 7800 is capable of better graphics than the 2600, so people would naturally expect better. But remember, it's not all about graphics. Gameplay comes first. Combat would be an easy port, and then all someone would have to do is hack the background to look like terrain, and the tanks to look like they have treads that move when they do, and vola, instant 7800 game.