So I just picked up an Adam...

[icbrkr]

.. that looks like someone buried in a field, built a house on top of it, tore down the house, and then used the space for a cat box.

 

Unbelievably, it still works fine. The plan is to clean it and retrobrite it, which then brings me to my next question(s)...

 

Since disk drives seem to be relatively hard to buy at a price I'd cough up, how else can you bring images over to the Adam? Was thinking I could copy via nullmodem somehow, or possibly write a DDP via tape deck hooked to a computer? Ideas or someone throw me at a FAQ for it?

[NIAD]

So then, you have found out that Coleco actually made a pretty solid and reliable computer after all... that is, after they ironed out all the expected kinks when bringing/rushing a new product to market. Good Luck with the restoration job and have fun with the removal of 32 screws in order to disassemble and remove everything from the case. Hopefully I didn't just scare you because to disassemble and re-assemble the Memory Console is pretty simple.

 

The BEST and EASIEST method to transfer files/disk images back to ADAM format is via 5 1/4" disk drives and disks. You will need a PC with a 5 1/4" FDD, the special utility pograms needed for the conversion process, best to boot into plain old MS-DOS (not DOS thru Windows) and most importantly an ADAM 5 1/4" FDD with some disks formatted for use with the ADAM. This is the only method that you will have sure fire and immediate success with and therefore will require you to spend some money for an ADAM 5 1/4" FDD.

 

Going the Null Modem route will require an ADAMLink Modem with one of the updated ADAMLink software programs, version 3 thru 5 should do the trick but version 1 and 2 will not. You probably will have some issues with syncing the ADAM modem to the PC modem and will have to do a lot of experimenting. Other options would be an ADAM Serial Interface with a 1200 or 2400 baud Hayes compatible modem, but I never personally did this and ADAM Serial Interfaces are extremely rare.

 

I've heard of other computers with tape deck hooked directly to a stereo tape deck (think it was for the ZX Spectrum), but on the ADAM side, there is no means to transfer like you are thinking here. There is an article on "The ADAM Resource" website about using Dual Deck Cassette Players and Stereos to make copies and blank DDPs... that's all you can do. See the link in the footer of my message.

 

Follow this link and scroll down to Post #7 for all the info on converting ADAM files back and forth between an ADAM and PC:

 

http://www.atariage....7-power-supply/

 

and another link to a very useful thread:

 

http://www.atariage...._1#entry2251139

Edited March 1, 2012 by NIAD

[icbrkr]

I'm not scared of taking things apart. Putting them back together is another thing.

 

Since the other methods seem like I'll end up buying hardware one way or another, I'll keep an eye out for a disk drive at a reasonable price. What IS a reasonable price - around $100?

[coleconut]

I'm not scared of taking things apart. Putting them back together is another thing.

 

Since the other methods seem like I'll end up buying hardware one way or another, I'll keep an eye out for a disk drive at a reasonable price. What IS a reasonable price - around $100?

 

$100 is pretty reasonable. Whether you find one or not at a reasonable price is a different story. The last one I saw on Ebay was untested and he got more than $100

[NIAD]

It all depends what is or isn't included with the ADAM Disk Drive. If it is just loose with the Power Supply and ADAMnet Cable, then I would say about $125... price can fluctuate coniderably depending if the drive is tested and verified to be working or not. If the drives comes complete in the original box with all the manuals and software, then it could go for up to $225. It really all depends on where one shows up and if it's on an auction site... how many people start bidding for it.

 

Surprisingly, these Disk Drives have been showing up on eBay quite a bit of late, but if you really want one, don't delay grabbing one especially if it is tested and verified.

 

Hopefully one day an ADAM SD Card Drive will be released... one has been developed and does work.

[Mad Hatter]

I have never seen an Adam in person, and maybe this is what you meant by using a null-modem cable, but couldn't you just attach a cable to the Adam's serial port (I'm assuming it has one), hook the other end up to a PC then run a terminal program on each computer and transfer files via X-Modem protocol? This is how I get files to/from my TI-99. I use Q-Modem Pro on the PC side and a terminal emulator on the TI. My laptop doesn't have a serial port so I use a USB-->serial adapater cable. Works great.

 

 

 

Since disk drives seem to be relatively hard to buy at a price I'd cough up, how else can you bring images over to the Adam? Was thinking I could copy via nullmodem somehow, or possibly write a DDP via tape deck hooked to a computer? Ideas or someone throw me at a FAQ for it?

[NIAD]

I have never seen an Adam in person, and maybe this is what you meant by using a null-modem cable, but couldn't you just attach a cable to the Adam's serial port (I'm assuming it has one), hook the other end up to a PC then run a terminal program on each computer and transfer files via X-Modem protocol? This is how I get files to/from my TI-99. I use Q-Modem Pro on the PC side and a terminal emulator on the TI. My laptop doesn't have a serial port so I use a USB-->serial adapater cable. Works great.

 

 

 

Since disk drives seem to be relatively hard to buy at a price I'd cough up, how else can you bring images over to the Adam? Was thinking I could copy via nullmodem somehow, or possibly write a DDP via tape deck hooked to a computer? Ideas or someone throw me at a FAQ for it?

The ADAM does not come with a Serial Interface, per say, out of the box. There were about 5 different Serial Interfaces developed by Homebrewers after Coleco dropped support of the ADAM and these are very hard to come by now-a-days, can be expensive due to their rarity and would require a better terminal program than ADAMLink I & II... only text files supported in these versions, no binary files. You would need ADAMLink III+ thru V, which are tremedous enhancements done by a Homebrewer to add missing features and support of different hardware devices (parallel and serial interfaces).

 

The 2 ADAMnet connectors on the Memory Console facilitate the hookup of the ADAM Keyboard and Disk Drive (the ports are interchangeable and devices can be daisy chained). While they are indeed Serial communications ports (actually very similar in concept to modern day USB ports), terminal software would have to be written to direct I/O thru these ports and that is not likely to happen. Unfortunately, Coleco changed the design of their modem from an external 1200 baud modem that plugged into the ADAMnet port to a 300 baud internal modem that installed in Slot #1 inside the Memory Console and therefore the included software directs I/O to this port address.

 

There is one person that I know off that has this Prototype external modem with the software program that was devloped by Coleco, but it was never attempted to copy/mass produce it back in the day due to the existence of Serial Interfaces, Hayes modems and terminal software available in both ADAM's EOS and CP/M formats.

 

The Disk Drive route will be the more expensive way to go, but this method is tried and true where-as others may not work without the investment of a lot more time figuring everything out. As mentioned, hopefully an SD Drive solution will become available one day to make life easier for everyone interested in the ADAM and all those that still play around with them.

[Mad Hatter]

Thanks for the background, I have always been somewhat fascinated by this computer and someday would like to get one. Strange they didn't provide a serial interface which complies with the RS232 standard; but I guess since the computer came with a printer they must've figured a modem would be the only thing someone would connect to it. And based on what you said it sounds like Coleco desired proprietary control over the modems. I wonder how the ADAM BBS scene was back in the 1980s? I can't imagine there were many of them around.

[NIAD]

Thanks for the background, I have always been somewhat fascinated by this computer and someday would like to get one. Strange they didn't provide a serial interface which complies with the RS232 standard; but I guess since the computer came with a printer they must've figured a modem would be the only thing someone would connect to it. And based on what you said it sounds like Coleco desired proprietary control over the modems. I wonder how the ADAM BBS scene was back in the 1980s? I can't imagine there were many of them around.

Aside from the scrapped External 1200 Baud ADAMnet Modem, Coleco did develop a combo Centronics Parallel/RS232 Serial Interface that plugged into the right-side Expansion Bus (same place where the Expansion Module #1 Atari VCS Adapter plugs in) as well as a Multi-Interface Ribbon Cable. Unfortunately this was another product that never saw the light of day and MAYBE one or two prototypes exist, IIRC the schematics are in the "ADAM Technical Manual".

 

The first Homebrew serial interface (by Eve Electronics) actually followed this design and provided 1 Parallel and 1Serial Interface and plugged into the Expansion Bus. Later, Serial Interfaces were developed that installed into eith Expansion Slot #1 or #2 inside the Memory Console.

 

As far as ADAM BBS systems, there were actually quite a large number of them back in the day that were operated under ADAM's standard operating system called E.O.S. as well as under CP/M using converted BBS software from another CP/M computer. It was quite a challenge to run these BBSs using just Disk and Data Drives, but thankfully ADAM Hard Drives became available in the late 80's to simplify matters for the Sysop.

[icbrkr]

So let's say I did manage to pick up a serial card ( I haven't yet, but just hypothetically) . Is it possible to convert DSK to DPP? Or, is there some sort of image manipulation tool where I can grab the files from a DSK and put them in a blank DPP image? And then lastly, if I were able to download a DPP image, is it possible to convert that over to a real DPP on the Adam or ?

 

Maybe I've over complicating it... I guess it's possible to just extract the files straight from the image and download the files seperately? Lastly, I'm seeing references to Adamserve to where you can use an old PC to mount drives, etc over serial. Is there a homepage just for that? Most of the links I've come across are dead.

[NIAD]

Using the ADAMem Emulator (really you should use Virtual ADAM by Steve Pitman which is a tremendous frontend for ADAMem) you can manipulate individual files on the EMULATOR DISK or DDP IMAGES very easily. Now to convert these DISK or DDP IMAGES back to an actual ADAM Disk and then onto an ADAM Data Pack requires the use of the conversion program called DCOPY that I provided a link to above in another thread. The disk or data pack images that are available on the web CAN NOT just be trasferred back to an ADAM Disk or DDP without further work being done and you will really have to know what you are doing on the ADAM with a good utility program the likes of File Manager.

 

There are so many issues at play here that it becomes hard to explain, but if you were able to get an ADAMLink Modem or Serial Interface and get the ADAM and PC communicating properly to transfer a DDP IMAGE file back to an ADAM DDP, you would run out of storage space on the ADAM DDP during the transfer... basically miss the last 2 blocks of the DDP IMAGE file. You see, the ADAM DDP is 256K (or blocks long) and the first block (#000) is called the Boot Block, the second block (#001) is the Directory... so those two blocks are taken and that leaves you with 254K of storage space. The DDP IMAGE file is 256K in length, so therefor you will not have enough space and the transfer will error out. Now if you know what you are doing, you can go in with File Manager and use Block Copy to arrange the blocks in their proper place plus more than likely there won't be anything missed on those last 2 blocks that were not transferred.

 

There's a large learning curve to be made going the Modem or Serial Interface route and I probably just confused the heck out of you with the above. If you can, try to get yourself an ADAM Disk Drive... it will be the easiest route to take but a little more expensive.

[icbrkr]

Nope, didn't confuse me at all. I've created all sorts of images and such from a ton of different computers so nothing that you're saying is surprising me

 

Since obviously the DDP image is too large to bring across due to space, if you transferred them back as files to the DDP through XModem or whatnot via terminal would you run into issues? I'm assuming the DDP would no longer boot the files at this point since the boot blocks are missing?

 

Sure, I'd like to get a disk drive, however, I more than likely still will end up with a serial card and nullmodem.

[NIAD]

ADAMserve was developed by Dr. D. and if I recall correctly, it allows the ADAM computer to hijack/take control of the PC drives (5 1/4" or 3 1/2") to be used for reading and writing operations of ADAM formatted disks placed in these PC drives. I honestly would need to read up on it further to see if there are options to transfer DISK and DDP IMAGE files, that are for use with ADAM Emulators on a PC, onto disks installed in the PC drives and therefore have the ability to copy them from there to ADAM DDPs.

[NIAD]

Glad to hear that you understood what I was trying to get across. One thing I failed to mention was that there aren't a lot of DDP IMAGE files, most everything is in DISK IMAGE format, so the above problem of transferring would not be a deal breaker. You would transfer the 160K Disk Image via Null Modem/Serial Interface to the ADAM DDP and then you will end up with a 160K file on it starting at Block #002 and running through Block ##161. Your next step would be to use a Block Copy program (File Manager is the best) to copy Blocks 2-161 from this first DDP to Blocks 0-159 of a new DDP. This will do the trick as there are only a handful of programs that were setup specifically to only load from DDP or DISK, but unfortunately you are probably interested in the ones that have specific drive (Data or Disk Drive) boot routines like the SuperGames.

 

You also need to be aware of the two different Data Pack formats that were made for the ADAM which are Center Directory and Right Directory. The largest majoirty of programs were supplied on Center Directory DDPs... the catalog/directory is located in the middle of the tape so the tape spools will contain the same amount of tape when you load a catalog. The Right Directory DDPs were made by Coleco to decrease load times of their SuperGames (Buck Rogers, DK, DK Jr., SubRoc, etc.) and you MUST copy these programs back to this type of DDP. You will have to buy yourself a supply of Buck Rogers DDPs ($1-$2 from www.atari2600.com) and then overwrite them with the other SuperGames, they will not work from Center Directory DDPs.

 

Also, all these Coleco made SuperGames do not contain a standard directory so you can not view the directory of files. These routines that tell the computer what to load next actually point to a specific block or range of blocks, not a particular file... again to decrease load times.

 

You are correct in your assumption that transferring the individual files would still not do the trick as the Boot Block would be missing.

 

Also, there aren't any PC utility programs that I know of that will allow you to pull individual files from a DISK or DDP IMAGE so in order to get at the individual files, the Disk Image would have to be written back to an ADAM Disk using DCOPY on a PC and then you could use "The ADAM Connection" to transfer the individual files from this ADAM Disk installed in the PC drive back to PC format... now you would be ready to transfer to an ADAM DDP via XModem.

 

Probably would be easier to pay someone to make copies of all the stuff you are interested in than to go through all of this, but then again, where is the fun in that!

Edited March 5, 2012 by NIAD

[+dhe]

It there a tool, or what is the best tool, to manipulate a .dsk file on a PC?

[NIAD]

31 minutes ago, dhe said:

It there a tool, or what is the best tool, to manipulate a .dsk file on a PC?

You can do it either within the emulator (ADAMem SDL or Virtual ADAM) or use Eric Pearson's Windows program called ADAM Image Manager v1.1.14.1 that you can download from The ADAM Archive.

 

(AdamArchive.Org) - The home for everything ADAM

 

I highly recommend buying an ADE SD Drive or FujiNet from Lundy Electronics when you ramp things up on a real ADAM.

 

Lundy Electronics - Lundy Electronics

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by NIAD