F#READY Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hi all, I got this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVTW1qZhSQ So, there seems to be a good SID emulation. Nice! What do you think? Regards, Freddy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Hi all, I got this link: .... So, there seems to be a good SID emulation. Nice! What do you think? Regards, Freddy. Hi Freddy, do you know any info behind this example? Has somebody else picked up and continued the work from Święty (Saint) based on his released sources? I was working on some stuff a couple of years ago myself. Edited May 31, 2012 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I hate to be negative, but it doesn't sound like SID to me. I have 64's. Sounds like POKEY, but maybe it's just my "tin ear" and/or the selection chosen. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Pretty good, but 4-bit digital + the fact we can't get huge sample rate means SID emu will always sound like a badly tuned radio station. Of course it'd go a whole lot better on a 7 or 14 MHz accelerator. Note how the pulse waves are practically spot-on. Whatever people think, I reckon it's a totally worthwhile project and should be continued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I hate to be negative, but it doesn't sound like SID to me. I have 64's. Sounds like POKEY, but maybe it's just my "tin ear" and/or the selection chosen. -Larry For a final "SID" experience, You have to set a low pass filter at approx. 3.5kHz. This will reduce the noise and add this bass bias, we know from SID. On the other hand, it is an interesting approach to replay SID tunes by simply emulating the registers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Is there an exe ? Sounds 'like' Aleksi Eebens VIC-20 Sid Vicious ?? And Emkay.. Again.. The maximum fundamental is 3.9KHz.. That doesn't mean there's no harmonic content higher than that.. A pulse waveform with a duty cycle of 75% has harmonics that are only slightly below the fundamental in level.. So for example, a 3.9KHz pulse waveform at 75% duty cycle has the fundamental at 0dB at 3900Hz.. And a 2nd harmonic at 7800Hz only -2dB down from the fundamental.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Here's my blog entry about this: http://www.atariage.com/forums/blog/293/entry-9180-sid-emulation-siddasm2-and-shasm65/ I included binaries, source code and tools. I was not aware of Saint's code (where can I find it?) and Aleksi's Sid Vicious, but judging by the youtube video Sid Vicious indeed sounds quite similar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 It's cool, I like it, and to some degree it's bound to sound like the others In case you've not already come across it, you might be interested in the recently released Sidreloc since you could probably very easily extend that to change the address of the SID hardware registers, in addition to relocating the driver and data to whereever you need.. Currently it can do about 91% of the entire HVSC (40,000+ tunes), and is a great bit of programming actually edit: And the Sidreloc actual webpage is here: http://www.linusakes...reloc/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hard to believe - this only uses one voice. Did you try at all to use 3 voices? Or does it slow down too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 @andym00, Thanks for the link to sidreloc. Looks indeed like a great piece of programming. Not sure if it'll be that much faster than my current version of siddasm2 but I'll look into it. @Rybags, Originally I wanted to use three separate voices, but I must admit, I have complete forgotten to try it later once the mixing and scaling worked like I wanted it to. I'll probably have to scale each channel down to 0-10 or 11 to not cross the 32 maximum volume of Pokey, but I guess it will work. Not sure if I can keep the screen on though, or I might have to let the "scope" go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd not worry about the "32 maximum volume". That's just a rumour and 90% of the software out there exceeds it. You might gain a few cycles if you did polled mode on the Timer rather than IRQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) I'd not worry about the "32 maximum volume". ... I've heard about different reasons why to keep the total below 32. As far as I understand it won't be a real problem to exceed the 32, and it won't damage the Pokey chip. On the other hand: there's a non-linear adding of the volumes of the separate channels, and this will be audible when the total volume exceeds 32. So, it often gives distortion, expecially with very loud tunes. Edited June 3, 2012 by analmux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Forced volume on all... isn't it an additive offset in the same direction anyway? Unlike playing normal tones where the interaction is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) @Rybags, Originally I wanted to use three separate voices, but I must admit, I have complete forgotten to try it later once the mixing and scaling worked like I wanted it to. I'll probably have to scale each channel down to 0-10 or 11 to not cross the 32 maximum volume of Pokey, but I guess it will work. Not sure if I can keep the screen on though, or I might have to let the "scope" go. That "addition" of waves has to do with the simple "mechanics" of, how POKEY produces the waves. Using fully different waveforms, frequency and starting time, reduce the "volume adding" . That's why you can get more "bass power" out of POKEY, when using digitizing. Edited June 3, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 One and half bit more volume dynamics doesn't seem to improve the sound that much. The ADSR envelopes get a bit more distinct, but you still have that 'badly tuned radio' kind of sound. In my experience, samplerate is way more important than bits/sample. For example 4 bits/sample at 44100Hz sounds way better than 16 bits/sample at 11025Hz, which is the same bitrate btw. I have some ideas to improve the emulation in other ways. Stay tuned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 One and half bit more volume dynamics doesn't seem to improve the sound that much. The ADSR envelopes get a bit more distinct, but you still have that 'badly tuned radio' kind of sound. In my experience, samplerate is way more important than bits/sample. For example 4 bits/sample at 44100Hz sounds way better than 16 bits/sample at 11025Hz, which is the same bitrate btw.I have some ideas to improve the emulation in other ways. Stay tuned Looking forward to it Here's some examples of Święty's Sid Player which he did back in 2004 (IRC) I have sources for an earlier version if you'd like them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hUPZAtkyEA See the Chimera video on my channel for what I was working on personally early last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I wonder why this is, but everytime I hear some of those SIDs, I have the need to hear something different http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_1vtBlhseg Someone really should start to make an emulator (for the limited SID sounds ) and to add one or two voices of POKEY for a completion of the frequency range.... Edited June 6, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macgoo Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It does sound like SID but only if the output was sampled on a 520STFM at 8khz and played back via the internal Amstrad/Spectrum sound chip of the STFM using software sample player! Amazingly the Commando rendition using SIDVICIOUS on the 1mhz VIC-20 sounds cleaner hmmmm It's a good chip sure but I don't see the fascination with trying to replicate it via the Pokey chip, waste of time as the Atari already has other advantages and you can get a C64 for five bucks on ebay if you are that desperate for SID music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macgoo Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I wonder why this is, but everytime I hear some of those SIDs, I have the need to hear something different http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_1vtBlhseg Someone really should start to make an emulator (for the limited SID sounds ) and to add one or two voices of POKEY for a completion of the frequency range.... Quite horrible! It sounds like Lightforce tune from Rob Hubbard played on a set of rusty steel drums by some retards with a stylophone for accompaniment. Anyone who thinks this is even close is bloody tone deaf and should never post about music EVER Reminded me of this, and gets as close to the original as this guy gets to the original released song he is playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhQKJ40UHM Pictures are nice though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I wonder why this is, but everytime I hear some of those SIDs, I have the need to hear something different http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_1vtBlhseg Someone really should start to make an emulator (for the limited SID sounds ) and to add one or two voices of POKEY for a completion of the frequency range.... Quite horrible! It sounds like Lightforce tune from Rob Hubbard played on a set of rusty steel drums by some retards with a stylophone for accompaniment. Anyone who thinks this is even close is bloody tone deaf and should never post about music EVER Let's say it this way: It's not sounding like SID. But does this mean, it sounds worse? Nope. Well, the 8 bit pitch resolution has it's flaws, but 2 channels can be played musically correct. This one plays at 4 channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Let's say it this way: It's not sounding like SID. But does this mean, it sounds worse? Nope. Well, the 8 bit pitch resolution has it's flaws, but 2 channels can be played musically correct. This one plays at 4 channels. I hadn't listened to it, assuming it was going to be another out of tune tortured cat disaster, but on reading the description by Macgoo, I had to listen.. My mistake... He's right.. You are doing POKEY no favours at all with these abominations 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Let's say it this way: It's not sounding like SID. But does this mean, it sounds worse? Nope. Well, the 8 bit pitch resolution has it's flaws, but 2 channels can be played musically correct. This one plays at 4 channels. I hadn't listened to it, assuming it was going to be another out of tune tortured cat disaster, but on reading the description by Macgoo, I had to listen.. My mistake... He's right.. You are doing POKEY no favours at all with these abominations Hm... what makes you believe, the original sounds better? I mean the original SID. Is it the "earplug" sound, or the slight out of tune sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Neither.. The original is a great piece of music, composed by an accomplished composer that made the tune he wanted, how he wanted.. The other is some 5 minute imported abomination where the person that clicked import has not the faintest musical clue.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Neither.. The original is a great piece of music, composed by an accomplished composer that made the tune he wanted, how he wanted.. The other is some 5 minute imported abomination where the person that clicked import has not the faintest musical clue.. Way around fits aswell. The original is done by someone who had musical skills, but heavy restrictions with the sounddevice, so he tried to get higher sounds with used distorsions and got slight out of tune in a 30 minute job. The other is a 5 days conversion, done on a limited "music" device with an even more limited Tracker, listening through several emulations, to get an approximated result... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 If people only was taking attention to the correct music programming for POKEY, as they try to get SID tunes onto the A8, everything was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.