Is Enduro the Best First-Person Racing Game?

Trinity · June 4, 2012

Jesus Christ... :roll:

+Random Terrain · June 4, 2012

Jesus Christ...

Where? Did the Rapture happen? I knew I'd miss it!

Tinman · June 4, 2012

We're gonna need a bigger bong...

R.O.T.S · June 4, 2012

Enduro is best in my eyes,i think it plays well and i like the sunset graphics on the A2600 it looks similar to the horizon on Chopper Command,That night time / fog type effect Enduro uses made my jaw drop when i first saw it.

Edited June 4, 2012 by R.O.T.S

ComputerSpaceFan · June 4, 2012

What is an ordament? Is that an ordained ornament?

Yes, thats why its a cross... Atari couldn't make a good looking dashboard Jesus.

Jesus Christ...

Where? Did the Rapture happen? I knew I'd miss it!

All this talk makes me feel like visitting the Atari Church

Mr SQL · June 4, 2012

By these definitions riding in a horse drawn carriage would present you with a third person view, as your engine is right in front of you and you're directly connected to it; so would riding in a trailer or truck being towed by a car and looking out the windshield over the car towing you. No one considers either of those scenarios a third preson view yet the latter is the same view you get in Enduro.

The first-person point of view would be from where the driver sits. The third-person point of view would be behind the whole horse and carriage. Agreed upon categories exist so we won't have to argue. It's not our fault that some of you won't read the list of categories.

Look at this:

http://en.wikipedia....o_game_graphics

.....

RT,

I'm thoroughly familiar with the categories; perhaps the issue is reading comprehension rather than not reading:

"Games with a first-person perspective are usually avatar-based, wherein the game displays what the player's avatar would see with the avatar's own eyes. Thus, players typically cannot see the avatar's body,"

Note the definition states typically and not always? Punch out is first person perspective even though you see the outline of your body in front of you. Look again at the two screenshots you posted, the view has not changed significantly as you claimed to be above and further behind, rather you could superimpose those screens right over one another.

SSX is an example of a game that allows you to switch camera angles to valid 3rd person perspectives, farther behind and above your character and front views, but the view with your character close up right in front of you matches the definition of first person.

Let's take a look at the definition you claim I haven't read for 3rd person perspective now:

"Third person refers to a graphical perspective rendered from a view that is some distance away (usually behind and slightly above) from the player's character.^["

Do you see how the distance of a carriage behind a horse, a trailer towed behind a car, or the outline of your body in punch out or the car in Enduro or the close-up in SSX don't qualify as some distance away and slightly above?

It seems to me you are really close-up and just behind the object in all of those instances.

Rex Dart · June 4, 2012

Seeing as the car only occupies the bottom tenth of the screen, I think you're viewing it from a significant height.

Cynicaster · June 4, 2012

It is not a matter of semantics or opinion; to say Enduro is first person is flat out wrong.

Yes, in a driving game, often the third person view and the first person view are pretty much the same, just with different foreground graphics. The fact that the views show many of the same things is irrelevant, as the two terms are still used to provide a clear distinction: "seeing what the driver sees" is first person, a "chaser" view is third person. This is not complicated.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Cynicaster

sqoon · June 4, 2012

That night time / fog type effect Enduro uses made my jaw drop when i first saw it.

Same here.

Rex Dart · June 4, 2012

stuff

I get what you're saying; that it's effectively the same view whether you're seeing ALL of the player character or just his hands, but that IS the distinction here. The only way your idea of third-person could work is a top-down view, and guess what, in gaming that's called a top-down or overhead view.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rex Dart

+Random Terrain · June 4, 2012

I'm thoroughly familiar with the categories; perhaps the issue is reading comprehension rather than not reading:

"Games with a first-person perspective are usually avatar-based, wherein the game displays what the player's avatar would see with the avatar's own eyes. Thus, players typically cannot see the avatar's body,"

Note the definition states typically and not always? Punch out is first person perspective even though you see the outline of your body in front of you. Look again at the two screenshots you posted, the view has not changed significantly as you claimed to be above and further behind, rather you could superimpose those screens right over one another.

SSX is an example of a game that allows you to switch camera angles to valid 3rd person perspectives, farther behind and above your character and front views, but the view with your character close up right in front of you matches the definition of first person.

Let's take a look at the definition you claim I haven't read for 3rd person perspective now:

"Third person refers to a graphical perspective rendered from a view that is some distance away (usually behind and slightly above) from the player's character.^["

Do you see how the distance of a carriage behind a horse, a trailer towed behind a car, or the outline of your body in punch out or the car in Enduro or the close-up in SSX don't qualify as some distance away and slightly above?

It seems to me you are really close-up and just behind the object in all of those instances.

Punch-Out!! is a third-person game:

http://www.cgquarter...es/punchout.htm

http://en.wikipedia....Super_Punch-Out!

Similar to what someone posted earlier, some of you guys don't get it and you probably never will. It reminds me of how some people claim that Lindsay Lohan is this generation's Marilyn Monroe or Elizabeth Taylor when she is more like this generation's Dana Plato. She also looks like Malcolm in the Middle with a wig on, but nothing you can say to these leave Britney alone types will convince them that Lindsay Lohan isn't the Queen of England. They are delusional nutwads and I guess they'll always be that way.

PacManPlus · June 4, 2012

Ok, I have to ask the inevitable question here: If we have 1st person and 3rd person, what is a 2nd person view? :ponder:

Edit: I found it - it's described as the opponent's view. (i.e. the oncoming cars in Enduro)... That's odd...

Edited June 4, 2012 by PacManPlus

+Random Terrain · June 4, 2012

Ok, I have to ask the inevitable question here: If we have 1st person and 3rd person, what is a 2nd person view?

Edit: I found it - it's described as the opponent's view. (i.e. the oncoming cars in Enduro)... That's odd...

No, this is 2nd-person view:

PacManPlus · June 4, 2012

LOL! I mean ewwww....

BTW, I meant Night Driver, not Enduro - there aren't any oncoming cars in Enduro (I didn't edit it because it was already quoted)

Mr SQL · June 4, 2012

I'm thoroughly familiar with the categories; perhaps the issue is reading comprehension rather than not reading:

"Games with a first-person perspective are usually avatar-based, wherein the game displays what the player's avatar would see with the avatar's own eyes. Thus, players typically cannot see the avatar's body,"

Note the definition states typically and not always? Punch out is first person perspective even though you see the outline of your body in front of you. Look again at the two screenshots you posted, the view has not changed significantly as you claimed to be above and further behind, rather you could superimpose those screens right over one another.

SSX is an example of a game that allows you to switch camera angles to valid 3rd person perspectives, farther behind and above your character and front views, but the view with your character close up right in front of you matches the definition of first person.

Let's take a look at the definition you claim I haven't read for 3rd person perspective now:

"Third person refers to a graphical perspective rendered from a view that is some distance away (usually behind and slightly above) from the player's character.^["

Do you see how the distance of a carriage behind a horse, a trailer towed behind a car, or the outline of your body in punch out or the car in Enduro or the close-up in SSX don't qualify as some distance away and slightly above?

It seems to me you are really close-up and just behind the object in all of those instances.

Punch-Out!! is a third-person game:

http://www.cgquarter...es/punchout.htm

http://en.wikipedia....Super_Punch-Out!

... unrelated stuff

RT,

try this link on Punch Out:

http://www.arcade-mu...hp?game_id=9155

"Description. A first-person perspective boxing game where you fight six boxers in the WVBA."

And again:

http://www.answers.c...-punch-out-game

"Your boxer in this game is transparent, allowing for a first-person perspective..."

And one more time:

http://www.coinopspa.../group/punchout

"A first-person perspective boxing game where you fight six boxers in the WVBA"

And on the wii:

http://www.cheatcc.c...houtreview.html

"ane visuals, guitar peripherals, and the first-person perspective"

Perhaps there's a difference between being far away and being close up

+Random Terrain · June 4, 2012

try this link on Punch Out:
http://www.arcade-mu...hp?game_id=9155

"Description. A first-person perspective boxing game where you fight six boxers in the WVBA."

And again:

http://www.answers.c...-punch-out-game

"Your boxer in this game is transparent, allowing for a first-person perspective..."

And one more time:

http://www.coinopspa.../group/punchout

"A first-person perspective boxing game where you fight six boxers in the WVBA"

And on the wii:

http://www.cheatcc.c...houtreview.html

"ane visuals, guitar peripherals, and the first-person perspective"

Perhaps there's a difference between being far away and being close up

And all of those things were either written by morons or the perpetually confused. A body made of a wire frame that you can see through doesn't change anything. It would become first-person if the view only shows the arms.

jhammond · June 4, 2012

I'm aware of Night Driver, Pole Position, and Enduro. Those are the three first-person racing games for Atari 2600/Sears Video Arcade that I know of. Night Driver is a real classic, it's good but a little limited (at 2K) and not very smooth. Pole Position was okay, more advanced but it never quite "clicked" at least not for me. Now Enduro is smooth and varied and seems pretty darn good. The landscape changes colors, the horizon scrolls around quickly, and there is a night-time sequence that is a little like Night Driver.

Anyone agree that Enduro is the best, or know of a first-person racer I missed?

I agree....I have all three games and only play Enduro because it is FUN!!! Night driver sucks and Pole Position is just ok.

jhammond · June 4, 2012

Of those, Night Driver, because the others are third-person.

Very true... I always thought that little cross thing in night driver was the car, but its actualy the cars hood ordament.

hood ornament?? read the manuel, it clearly states that it's the car your looking at. Looks more like an old Farmall Tractor to me though.

Rex Dart · June 4, 2012

And it's clearly not a car. Manuals are not always correct and Manuel is a Spaniard's name.

+Random Terrain · June 4, 2012

Hood ornament?? Read the manual. It clearly states that it's the car you're looking at. Looks more like an old Farmall Tractor to me, though.

The people who write manuals may not always be correct. The best thing would be to ask Rob Fulop if he was trying to make it first-person like the arcade version or if he meant for that odd shape to be a third-person view of the car from behind.

KevinMos3 · June 4, 2012

And... here's an arcade-like over the hood view hack to clear up any confusion.

Oh wait... it still doesn't look like a car hood. lol

Maybe this one?

nope.

Edited June 4, 2012 by KevinMos3

+FujiSkunk · June 4, 2012

For the sake of burying the argument and moving on, can we agreee that, even though they're both "third person" by the commonly accepted definition of such, there is still a difference between games like Indy 500, which have a more dissociated view of the action, and games like Enduro, where the perspective is much closer to first person? I don't know what you would call it (I don't like "modified first person" either, much as it gets the point across), but there's got to be something we can use that allows us to lump true-first-person and almost-first-person racing games together.

There's first-person perspective, third-person perspective, and top-down perspective. See the link and list above for more information.

Sheesh. So They decided you can't call it "first person" when it's almost first person, and then They also decided you can't use "third person" to describe what is probably the most "third person" of the three choices?

I'm not sure what's sadder, those definitions or the fact we're still arguing over them.

I still say we need some phrase that allows us to lump together games where the camera is kept a fixed distance and angle away from the player, even when that distance is zero. After all, we all know what we're talking about here. We're just beating our chests over semantics.

Ok, I have to ask the inevitable question here: If we have 1st person and 3rd person, what is a 2nd person view?

Edit: I found it - it's described as the opponent's view. (i.e. the oncoming cars in Enduro)... That's odd...

The terms are all borrowed from literature. "First person" stories are written from a single character's point of view ("I did this, then I said that, then he told me..."). "Third person" stories are written from a neutral point of view ("He did this, then he said that, then the other guy told him..."). "Second person" assumes the reader is part of the story ("You did this, then you said that, and then he told you..."). Choose Your Own Adventure books are the best examples of second-person stories.

Edited June 4, 2012 by FujiSkunk

Atariboy · June 5, 2012

I have all three games and only play Enduro because it is FUN!!! Night driver sucks and Pole Position is just ok.

While I don't think there's much room for debate here than Enduro is the best of the three, the other two are still excellent games. Night Driver is a great game that is a lot of fun to play. And Pole Position is a nice effort that's very playable.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Atariboy