13 replies to this topic

[Harry_Dodgson]

I've been surfing the web for a while now (too much). I've seen many sites using my screendumps or making claims about me and my games that are untrue. I'm not going to point out these sites for obvious reasons. I've also sent dozens of emails to the people who create these site to remove ROM images and other content.

I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks that people should ask the author(s) of website content before they (mis)appropriate it.

I'd also like to know how people think they are supporting the Lynx community by offering ROM images of homebrew games without the permission of the Author(s). They aren't encouraging me to create more games.

I put no less than six anti-emulator checks into Lynx Othello to discourage this behavior, but it is out on the web now for download . We haven't received an order for Lynx Othello for months now and this is likely a contributing factor. I am reluctant to release Space Battles because I know the same thing is going to happen to it.

Before someone mentions that it may be difficult to contact the author(s)... when I do a Yahoo search on my name, my website is the first one that comes up. It can't be that hard to ask for my permission rather than stealing my work.

Even my screenshots weren't easy to get as I had to adapt a C program to perform the RAW->GIF conversion (and it's not 100% reliable so I usually have to do multiple dumps to get a few good ones ). What really gets to me is the screenshot of Zow that all the sites use is one with a Copyright message at the bottom.

What do you think?

[Antalos]

Harry_Dodgson said:

I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks that people should ask the author(s) of website content before they (mis)appropriate it.

I agree with you.

Harry_Dodgson said:

I'd also like to know how people think they are supporting the Lynx community by offering ROM images of homebrew games without the permission of the Author(s).  They aren't encouraging me to create more games.

I don't think they do think or they just don't care.

Harry_Dodgson said:

I put no less than six anti-emulator checks into Lynx Othello to discourage this behavior, but it is out on the web now for download .  We haven't received an order for Lynx Othello for months now and this is likely a contributing factor.  I am reluctant to release Space Battles because I know the same thing is going to happen to it.

I do hope you do release more games even though I haven't bought your game or any of Songbird Productions' games I do plan on buying lynx Othello and some Songbird Productions' games before the end of next month.

Harry_Dodgson said:

IBefore someone mentions that it may be difficult to contact the author(s)... when I do a Yahoo search on my name, my website is the first one that comes up.  It can't be that hard to ask for my permission rather than stealing my work..

Obviously they're blatant liars.

Nothing makes me more mad than people treating software developers as if they don't exist or they don't matter.

[Antalos]

I tried to edit my post above but IE kept saying connection failed.

Harry_Dodgson said:

Before someone mentions that it may be difficult to contact the author(s)... when I do a Yahoo search on my name, my website is the first one that comes up.  It can't be that hard to ask for my permission rather than stealing my work..

They could be using another search engine or otherwise they're obviously blatant liars.

[karri]

I am also sad to see beautiful web sites give up the good work and turn to all kind of tricks to get money like pay by minute BBS systems for pirated stuff etc.

I have seen a site claim to have your Othello, but according to the info I have it wasn't really there.

Anyway it is a good game. Especially the dino character is cute and color usage is nice.

--
Karri

[lucienEn]

I can see the frustration since it's a lot of work to create the game and you don't really get paid accordingly for all that work.

I can see that people want to just testdrive it but reality is that most just want it for free. And for testdrive you could request a small playable demo instead.

I wouldn't consider either publishing a new lynx game if I knew it would be made available for free. Unless people would buy new games anyway.

[Clint Thompson]

Harry,

I can understand how you feel. I'm not sure what you can do but I would take some affirmative action. (whatever you can anyways)
It's probably too late to really do much about it if it's already spread everywhere... but let me assure you on something...

Just because the rom is available... that doesn't mean people should or will stop buying your game or game(s).

I for one... don't care for emulators... (as you would notice in the ST section, everytime I mention getting an ST or STacy everyone jumps out and says, Hey just emulate it!)

I hate emulation because of this reason but more so because it's just not the same. I don't have a Lynx at the moment, nor do I have any emulators... but I will eventually start on a Lynx collection (once I get my 7800 stuff out of the way) and you should expect at least another purchase! I just want to send word to you that just because there are pirates of the new games out there... that not everyone here is to take your work for free... you have to remember there are quite a few of us (any hands?) that reallly DO want the real thing over the emulated stuff... and that really DO want to see future support for Atari systems in general.

I do hope you continue your work as I didn't even know more Lynx titles were in the works (how awesome!) Btw.. you have a link to more info on this upcoming game?

Clint Thompson

[Curt Vendel]

Harry_Dodgson said:

I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks that people should ask the author(s) of website content before they (mis)appropriate it.

Harry, I have to agree... many people take the internet for this big free for all...

I spent a lot of time, effort and money on equipment to post content and images up onto the Atari Museum site and while I don't have a problem with people using the images, I encourage it so long as people ask first and we work out what images and some kind of mention or credit on their site, I do think it's only fair to at least at permission and make mention somewhere on their site where the source materials came from.

I found it especially annoying early on when I was hosting on a pay-per-gig webservice to host my site and people were linking image directly from my site to their website or worse - to their ebay auction, so then I had to pay for them to make a profit...

I know you're talking rom code, I'm talking images and content, (apples & oranges) but its the same thing, its your time, effort and expense and others should have a little respect and common sense to not just run around and take as they please without checking and asking first to see if its okay.


Curt

[eric_ruck]

I remember back in the day when some study showed that removing copyright protections actually correlated to increased sales...I'm not sure how apropos this idea is to that concept, but I wonder of this would work:

Try the trialware/shareware approach. Post for yourself an emulator friendly image with limited content that directs the player to your website after a few sample levels, features or whatever.

I wonder if that would work. I figure people are basically lazy and would use the ROM image that you yourself release rather than bothering to capture their own. Or perhaps downloaders would find your sample image first.

Just an idea. I have a vested interest since I'm working on a Lynx game in my meager free time.

Eric

PS: I don't suppose you'd consider sharing your anti-emulator code with me in private?

[chris_lynx1989]

i'll agree with you,harry.i don't like pirates of things in general.if an item
that was previously unrealeased comes up for lynx i like to see it on an
eprom to use with my lynx.if i have a developer cart to use it with that is
fine too.some emulation of things is fine,i guess.atari is no more.all we
have is released stuff or proto eproms that come around from time to
time now.some homebrew stuff too,i guess.if it was my game i wouldn't
like seeing it on a rom site for free download for all.i believe in getting a
royalty on what is your property.if i or you designed the new cadillac evoq
and have a $1.00 dollar per car royalty coming from gm,then we have it
coming to us as per our agreement with the company.enough said.
protos from a defunct company like atari may be a different story when it
comes to you and me seeing and/or owning them.if they appear on a rom
site,i'm not sure how to look at it.you may still look at it as theft in some
ways,because someone at rebellion or wherever programmed the thing
for lynx or etc.if it is on an eprom and an old atari sold off asset from the
past, i guess,you could have a problem with a programmer if you started to sell it to others out there.as was the case i've heard here on atari age
when it came to selling daemongate and avp at b&c computer visions here
last year.i heard about everyone flaming bruce for selling them they were all calling him a pirate and such.others have done this in the past for the lynx and did not get this treatment.it can be a thin red line thing,i guess.
what are your thoughts on this?
i would love to see you release space battles.do not let one small thing
ruin a release for us all.rom sites seem to be a way of life on the web!i'm
not saying these may all be legit sites,though.i would love to see you bring
out demolition derby/dirt track racing too for lynx!-chris

[Tom-Lynx]

My feelings in the matter are that unreleased games should be released by permission of the author only. Anyone releasing the game without permission is nothing short of scum sucking pirate. Anyone actually profiting by such an endeavor should be shot, dragged into the street and backed over several times.

I would love to see every Lynx developer get credit for their work and not be afraid of piracy if a new game is released. As a paying collector, I'm willing to buy more.... there just isn't enough supply of new games!

Now if a developer sells or gives away a prototype cart to someone (at a trade show for example), and that person decides to ebay the item and make a profit at a future date, I have no problem. The developer sold/gave the item and it became the property of the buyer to do with (the original) as they please. That would only pertain to the original cart though, that would not be permission to dump the ROM.

Tom

[SwedenLynxer]

I agree on what most people already have said. I can understand your anger and frustration. These people is nothing but thiefs and pirates

I can understand it is not encouraging for you to create more games when people just steal something you have put down so much work in.

But I hope you will continue to work on new games for the Atari Lynx. Space Battles looks like a awesome game! You can´t let the bad guys win. The Atari Lynx will always have it´s loyal fans. I buy at least two copys of every new Lynxs game that is released.

I hate emulators, handheld games of course should be played on a handheld machine. Lynx Othello is a good game, maybe a little to easy, but you never get tired of playing it. And I am trying very hard to find the hidden features in this game I Also like the plastic box, the manual and so on. I think this is 50% of a game. Just knowing you are a proud owner of a rare original Lynx game. No emulator in the world can recreate that feeling

[Turbo Laser Lynx]

I had forgotten about my Lynx for a couple of years until I ran into the handy emulator. Now the Lynx is my favourite system (again & back to stay), but I would never had started buying games again for the Lynx if it wasn´t for the emulator. Finaly I could check out other games than the 12 games me and my friends had in the early 90´s. I have since then bought Lynx games all the time (at least 1-3 games a month), and I´m gonna get them all.

Just like Clint Thompson and SwedenLynxer says, It´s no fun playing the games on the emulator, it has to be the real Lynx, but I think the emulator can refresh old fans memory of how great the Lynx is, and allso introduce the Lynx to new fans that will eventualy buy a real Lynx & games.

I´m going to buy all new games released for the Lynx. I find it hard to believe that rom:s would affect the sales numbers of a game, all active Lynx fans would probably buy it anyway and random-user-buyers probably buy used games mostly anyway. I´m not trying to defend the pirates, I´m only trying to point out some bright sides of emulating roms. I´m allso glad to say that I´ve never seen any othello or songbird rom:s anywhere on the net. (I might be wrong of course, maybe rom:s affect the sales. But I have a hard time believing that)

I really hope you would finish Space Battles some (beautiful) day! It looks super-awesome and it seems to be a game the Lynx really would need! It would fill a important gap in the Lynx games-library! I would allso buy at least two copies of Space Battles! Looking forward to buy othello, the songbird games and simis.

[Shawn Jefferson]

Harry_Dodgson said:

I've been surfing the web for a while now (too much).  I've seen many sites using my screendumps or making claims about me and my games that are untrue.  I'm not going to point out these sites for obvious reasons.  I've also sent dozens of emails to the people who create these site to remove ROM images and other content.

You send the email to the site owner to remove your copyrighted work. Tell them they have three days to remove it (or some such) and then you go to their web host.

So they still don't remove it. Email their web host saying that such and such web site hosted on their domain has infringed your copyright. Ask them to remove it, or you will be forced to forward this matter to your lawyer. That usually gets it removed.

Worst case scenerio is a letter from your lawyer to the ISP/Web Host in question.

Unfortunately, you are going to have to track these guys down and get them to remove the infringing material. As Curt says, a lot of people think since it is on the Internet it is "free." This happens with web content all the time..

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I'd also like to know how people think they are supporting the Lynx community by offering ROM images of homebrew games without the permission of the Author(s).  They aren't encouraging me to create more games.

I personally think it is *not* helping the community to piss off good developers!

Quote

Before someone mentions that it may be difficult to contact the author(s)... when I do a Yahoo search on my name, my website is the first one that comes up.  It can't be that hard to ask for my permission rather than stealing my work.

Just because you can't contact the author doesn't give a person the right to violate that author's copyright. It's a dumb arguement.

Quote

What do you think?

Chase it down and have it removed. Unfortunately it is a little bit of work on your part.

[cryptik76]

I'm not sure I share your anger about screenshots... after all, screenshots are a difficult thing to take (especially on a Lynx) and if someone needs to dress up a review or something on a game and they're not able to take a screenshot themselves, naturally they'll try to find one elsewhere on the web. I'm not sure it's really harming anyone; however, if you've taken the screenshot and want to protect your copyright, obviously it's your right to do so, no questions asked.

It annoys me how people feel "entitled" to steal or share stolen copyrighted material like MP3's, ROM's, and so on, and the fact that the majority of web hosts and national governments actually stick up for these pirates shows just how far the right to protect one's personal creations or property has sunk in the last several years. It also blows my mind that the powers that be actually listen to these people and their "I'm not stealing it, I'm just previewing it!" and "Music/games should be free!" arguments.

I'm surprised that guys like Harry Dodgson and Songbird Productions continue to release their games in a climate like this, because I would have just said "the heck with it" and went on to something more lucrative (I'm positive you guys have the talent to make money developing software for a "less dead" platform like the GBA if you wanted to).

It's because of their love of the Lynx that these guys make this software and go through great personal expense to make it available to Lynx fans like ourselves. How someone can just steal it is just plain mind-boggling to me.