Is the 5200 such a "SUPER" System?

[jaybird3rd]

But anyway, to keep this on topic: is the 5200 a "Super System" or not? It's difficult to answer this question because, speaking metaphorically, the 5200 is really two "systems," one inside the other. I think a lot of the disagreement around it comes from confusing or conflating the two, so it's important to keep in mind which "system" we're talking about.

 

On the one hand, there is the 6502 and Atari's integrated GTIA/POKEY/ANTIC chipset. That's the innermost "system," and I think it's one of the best Atari ever created. I got to know it first through the Atari 400/800 computers, which I've used since the early 80s and which are based on the exact same chips. When its fans tout the merits of the 5200, they often point to its impressive graphics and sound capabilities, or to the arcade-quality games in its library, and this is the system they're really talking about when they do so. They're right to say that it's a good one.

 

On the other hand, there's the outermost "system" which Atari built around the innermost when they created the 5200: the console design, the cartridge port, the controllers, and the other elements that are specific to the 5200. When detractors talk about the 5200's shortcomings, that's the system they're usually talking about. I won't go over the issues I have with it because we all know what they are already; they've been discussed ad nauseum for years.

 

This distinction matters because the "innermost system" is common to both the 5200 and the 400/800 computers, which makes it easier for people to avoid the problems of the 5200's "outermost system" by simply playing its games on the 400/800 instead. I think this creates an unfortunate negative bias in the common perception of the 5200: to put it crudely, the 5200 has to "share the credit" with the 400/800 machines for most of its positives, but it takes the full blame for all of its negatives.

 

Despite all that, I still plan on building a 5200 collection, because I can appreciate what the 5200 has to offer: an INCREDIBLE trackball controller (all hail Dan Kramer!), the games that actually make good use of the 5200 joysticks, and the "plug and play" simplicity that the 5200 can bring as a game console. For me, these are sufficient to outweigh the negatives: having to buy Best's improved but somewhat expensive joysticks, having to add the composite A/V outputs that Atari left out, etc. As Cebus said earlier, these are the kinds of pros and cons that we all have to weigh for ourselves in making our collecting decisions. I can certainly understand anyone who would make a different decision in my place, however, because I can easily see it both ways.

[jetset]

It's not the differing opinions but the outright broken record bashing I get sick of.

[Keatah]

is there a chance of seing Tempest 5200 finished?

 

Imho: the best Tempest experience would be Typhoon 2001 PC remake. Don't diss it till you tried it. And

the original arcade version done on Mame.

[Cebus Capucinis]

I think this creates an unfortunate negative bias in the common perception of the 5200: to put it crudely, the 5200 has to "share the credit" with the 400/800 machines for most of its positives, but it takes the full blame for all of its negatives.

 

This is exactly my instinctual perception of the system, and was my understanding of it prior to actually having one and experiencing it. I had neither a 5200 nor an A8 computer until I joined AtariAge and my interest got piqued in vintage computing again, and I first bought a 130XE and then a 5200 about a month later. Upon looking at the specs and the concepts behind the two without really "experiencing" the 5200 to understand the fundamental differences that give the 5200 its character, I made the decision that if it was so similar to the A8 line, it would be easier to just purchase an A8, "right"?

 

My reasoning was that a vintage computer system has a larger functionality and a multitude of additional uses that creates a higher inherent value to a video game system based on the computer line. The expandability and "tinker" factor also gave it a higher inherent value to me, and if it contained a lot of the exact same technical specifications and even shared a bulk of software, why would I choose a non-expandable box over a more powerful expandable one? Of course, joysticks were a factor as well, I will admit, but it wasn't a main deciding factor for me at the time, nor will I think it ever would be.

 

I still think there's some merit to that rationale, and there's some merit to those who prefer the A8 line over the 5200 due to the similarities to both as a means to an end (namely, playing video games in this instance). However, I think there's not enough merit in this rationale to outright dismiss the 5200 as a unique experience, and frankly, a good one at that (is it the "best"? "Better" than another? That's up to your personal tastes); the differentiation between "computer" and "console" experiences, to me, is more than enough to warrant at least a purchase and a play run with a 5200.

 

There's something very unique to that "put cartridge in console" experience that the A8's cart slot just can't compare with. That feeling of plugging in a cartridge with the express intent of doing nothing but blasting alien ships, racing cars, or anything your talented programmer could come up with just isn't the same with a machine that also shares functionality with household budgeting, spreadsheets, and word processors. The feel with a console is that it is the "ultimate engineered solution" to video games -- it does that function intrinsically better than a multipurpose machine could. Of course, this is a flawed logic as it's merit by association, but I think most everyone goes into an experience with a console thinking the exact same thing. It's designed for one single purpose -- it SHOULD perform that one purpose better than an object that performs other purposes, "right"?

 

The point of contention here is one of the major points in the differentiation, and I see it as a positive: the joystick controller. Although not optimum for certain games or schemes, the experience with the non-centering controller and keypad buttons is just so DIFFERENT from the A8 line that it, in itself, gives enough merit to the console to, in my book, over-ride the "A8 vs. 5200" debate (which is another that has been raging for decades)!

 

So, the initial instinct and rationale I had in the beginning I ultimately decided was completely flawed -- even with so many similarities between two consoles, each must still be taken in its own merit for your own personal tastes, and whether you like it or not is entirely up to your personality, your "unique snowflake", and your own experience. For lack of a better way of putting it, "Your Mileage May Vary"!

[jaybird3rd]

There's something else I like about the 5200: out of all the Atari consoles, the 5200 is the only one that included four controller ports (I'm excluding the 400 and 800 computers because they aren't strictly game consoles). True, the Jaguar had its Team Tap adapter, but that's an add-on that not everyone has. I'm interested in developing multi-player games because I think this is an under-explored genre in homebrew: if you're proud of your classic game collection and are eager to show it off to your friends, as I think most of us are, what better way to do it than to fire up a game that a bunch of them can play together? Unfortunately, once you get past Warlords (or Bryan Edewaard's excellent Castle Crisis), there aren't that many classic games that allow you to have four simultaneous players, but the four-port 5200 is the natural platform for creating new ones.

[NE146]

I know in our inner Atari circles we discern between the Atari 8-bits and the 5200. And that's justified for several good reasons. But then again at it's core of course they are one and the same family, so memory limitations aside, we get a pretty good idea of what exactly the 5200 was always potentially capable of with the extensive 400/800 library which for the most part has been pushed pretty far at this point. And I always preferred to think of it that way. i.e. The 5200 was a powerful gaming machine in the same way the 8bits were, and leave it at that.

 

The Colecovision on the other hand always had a different feel.. but it obviously (as evidenced by Eduardo's work) hadn't really reached it's full potential. Personally I'm loving what's going on with it. I posted in this thread in 2002 and my position on is still pretty much the same. That being said I'd be pissed if I didn't have both my Colecovision & 5200. They always belonged together in my house.

[Christophero Sly]

Bah! Everyone knows that the 5200 is a waste of solder and plastic.

[toptenmaterial]

I have often heard of the detriments of 5200 controllers, particually in terms of precision. My experience with the 5200 is limited at best... do third party controllers allow sharper movements with games like Pac-Man?

[Christophero Sly]

I have often heard of the detriments of 5200 controllers, particually in terms of precision. My experience with the 5200 is limited at best... do third party controllers allow sharper movements with games like Pac-Man?

I like the Comp Pro better for that type of game.

[Keatah]

The best controller I ever used was the PointMaster Pro --

 

Despite what the reviewer says here, I could play defender on the 8-bitter for hours and hours. I achieved all my high scores with this. I liked it so much I built an interface with some d/a and ttl chips to use on my 5200. Use with the colecovision and other systems required just some re-wiring. I built in another connector into both my ColecoVision stick and my Vectrex panel just for the sole reason of plugging this in. Like plugging a controller into a controller. Slick!

 

It's a big stick, made light and cheap. That is one thing which makes it good. It it so light I can slam it around with force and exactness all in one stroke. The auditory and tactile clicks are perfect feedback.

 

I could push it against my inner thigh a bit with one hand and whack the top of the stick with the other, achieving rapid-fire output. Using the same hand jamming the stick, I could flip it one way and then another, thereby getting good directional control. Leaving the other one free to whack the top in a vibratory manner. Back and forth. This thing was awesome. Jackhammer!

 

Any twitch game totally rocks with this, it takes some skill to develop the slamming-around motions, but they can't be beat. About the only thing possible faster is a laptop keyboard with short throw switches.

 

I recall getting all my high-scores with this and when I'd go to my buddie's for gaming, I'd always bring this.

 

This sure beats the Wico Command Control - while the Wico is very well built, that stick is the sloppiest thing in town and plays like a bag of jell-o!

Edited July 19, 2011 by Keatah

[toptenmaterial]

This might sound like a dumb question... Can I start games with a 3rd party controller that require functionality of the start button? I have a vague memory of that being an issue for me about 5 or 6 years ago....

[VectorGamer]

This might sound like a dumb question... Can I start games with a 3rd party controller that require functionality of the start button? I have a vague memory of that being an issue for me about 5 or 6 years ago....

 

Wico makes a joystick for the 5200. It comes with a Y-cable that allows you to plug the stock controller into it to use the keypad while you use the joystick for game play.

[toptenmaterial]

This might sound like a dumb question... Can I start games with a 3rd party controller that require functionality of the start button? I have a vague memory of that being an issue for me about 5 or 6 years ago....

 

Wico makes a joystick for the 5200. It comes with a Y-cable that allows you to plug the stock controller into it to use the keypad while you use the joystick for game play.

Ohhhhhh.....

[+Cafeman]

Bah! Everyone knows that the 5200 is a waste of solder and plastic.

 

Missile Command and Centipede with REAL analog controls beg to differ!

Edited July 19, 2011 by Cafeman

[+pboland]

Just as a reminder, it is the Atari 5200's 20th anniversary this year and hopefully some more interesting topics and conversations about the system, its successful sides and downfalls will continue throughout the year. So... below please find a link to a new section of 8 never before seen since 82-83 commercials for the Atari 5200:

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/movies/videogam...ommercials.html

 

 

Enjoy everyone and lets keep the 5200 topics and threads rolling!!!!

 

 

Curt

Hard to believe that was almost 10 years ago. Anything planned for the 30th anniversary?

[jetset]

Bah! Everyone knows that the 5200 is a waste of solder and plastic.

 

Missile Command and Centipede with REAL analog controls beg to differ!

 

You must not have caught the electrictroy reference.

[+Cafeman]

Bah! Everyone knows that the 5200 is a waste of solder and plastic.

 

Missile Command and Centipede with REAL analog controls beg to differ!

 

You must not have caught the electrictroy reference.

 

I suspected something like that but I couldn't help respond immediatelY!

[zylon]

Do Not Taunt Happy-Fun System!(aka 5200)

[Atari Joe]

Shoulda known I'd come in here just to find Jetset shoving his opinion down other people's throats and silencing the opinions of others. Typical. Keep up the good work, boss :thumbsup:

[CPUWIZ]

Shoulda known I'd come in here just to find Jetset shoving his opinion down other people's throats and silencing the opinions of others. Typical. Keep up the good work, boss :thumbsup:

 

Easy, nothing personal please. This topic is crap enough as it is.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Shoulda known I'd come in here just to find Jetset shoving his opinion down other people's throats and silencing the opinions of others. Typical. Keep up the good work, boss :thumbsup:

 

Easy, nothing personal please. This topic is crap enough as it is.

 

This topic is a waste of solder and plastic! I thought Jay and I were doing fine, LOL.

[+wood_jl]

Shoulda known I'd come in here just to find Jetset shoving his opinion down other people's throats and silencing the opinions of others. Typical. Keep up the good work, boss :thumbsup:

Stop denying yourself. TRADE YOUR 7800 FOR A 5200 RIGHT NOW, MISTER!!!!

 

(who's going to know?)

Edited July 20, 2011 by wood_jl

[zylon]

Shoulda known I'd come in here just to find Jetset shoving his opinion down other people's throats and silencing the opinions of others. Typical. Keep up the good work, boss :thumbsup:

Stop denying yourself. TRADE YOUR 7800 FOR A 5200 RIGHT NOW, MISTER!!!!

 

(who's going to know?)

Knowing what I now know, I'd make that deal in a heartbeat.

[jetset]

Shoulda known I'd come in here just to find Jetset shoving his opinion down other people's throats and silencing the opinions of others. Typical. Keep up the good work, boss :thumbsup:

 

Here's an idea. Fuck off.

[CPUWIZ]

Ok, so now you are even, one more from either side and there will be post deletions and/or thread locking going on.