WTF is going on here?

[Cobra Kai]

Healthy is what comes from as many people as possible enjoying their Jaguar in the way they prefer, not restricting that pleasure or the sharing of it to any one flavour of fan. If the AA jag forum was only for discussion of 20 year old games and nothing more it'd just be like three men a dog and a whole load of tumbleweeds rolling by...

 

The so-called "Jaguar Community" doesn't need to purge itself of new developments to improve - those are probably important factors in new people learning about the Jaguar all the time over a back catalogue of quirky games and mostly inferior ports. A burning of books attitude will breed nothing healthy... the more new developments that occur the more people will take notice and the more the user-base has the chance to grow - both gamers and devs.

Nobody said anything about purging developers, I don't know how you infer that. I just don't think it's healthy for the forum overall to have things all a one-way street which seems to be programming topics. This forum isn't healthy, just look what happens. I've never seen so many locked threads in any other forum on any message board anywhere. It's the programmers that are bickering and flaming, not the gamers.

 

I'd like to know which of all these hot new homebrews are going to make non-Jaguar owners want to get in on the Jaguar? Which ones? The real quality stuff is still coming from Songbird, which are finished up projects of in-development titles during the Jags demise. This doesn't mean i think that homebrewers should stop programming Jaguar games, you guys can do whatever you want, but I think it's silly to suggest that whats been released has this big magnetic effect of drawing spectators to the Jaguar. The programming topics get so many page views because people probably enjoy reading all the flames, more of a goof than anything.

[+save2600]

It's been this way since the Deja News newsgroups. Too many sensitive types with ego's that are easily butt hurt over nothing or a little bit of criticism. Going on over 17 years, I see very little has changed.

 

The over valuing of some of the games, hardware and homebrews is another incredibly strange phenomenon pretty unique to this particular console too. Definitely a cloud of goofiness forever looming over the system and community. Like some kind of curse.

 

It's all good though! I love the Jag, most of its games and most of the community.

[+CyranoJ]

[Cobra Kai]

I'll counter with the thread views. If you look at the new game related ones they are in the 1000s (or 10s of 1000s). If you look at back catalogue game questions they are quite low in comparison. Combined with the number of downloads of the free game binaries and homebrew carts and CDs selling out in no time flat then I'd say that people are very interested in new games. Mind you some don't actually play them .

 

Nah... Its the plastic.

 

I think we are in agreement. There's not many Jag gamers here, there's more people interested in the programming side. I think there are people also interested in making a profit of Jag limited releases to counter your other point.

[+Sauron]

Nobody said anything about purging developers, I don't know how you infer that. I just don't think it's healthy for the forum overall to have things all a one-way street which seems to be programming topics. This forum isn't healthy, just look what happens. I've never seen so many locked threads in any other forum on any message board anywhere. It's the programmers that are bickering and flaming, not the gamers.

 

I don't see that many programming topics in the main forum. Many of the threads are about upcoming projects, yes, but there isn't that much programming discussion going on in them.

 

I'd like to know which of all these hot new homebrews are going to make non-Jaguar owners want to get in on the Jaguar? Which ones? The real quality stuff is still coming from Songbird, which are finished up projects of in-development titles during the Jags demise. This doesn't mean i think that homebrewers should stop programming Jaguar games, you guys can do whatever you want, but I think it's silly to suggest that whats been released has this big magnetic effect of drawing spectators to the Jaguar. The programming topics get so many page views because people probably enjoy reading all the flames, more of a goof than anything.

 

I honestly can't tell you how many of these homebrews have "brought new people to the Jag". However, what I can say is that they get a fair amount of attention outside of the Jag community. Just look at all of the Downfall/Man Goes Down inspired games for other systems that started cropping up after we released Downfall. Not tooting the Reboot horn here, but new games released by others have gained a good deal of attention as well, even if they're not pushing the system to the max.

[GroovyBee]

There's not many Jag gamers here, there's more people interested in the programming side.

 

If you look at the comments and questions raised in the new game threads not many come from programmers but a whole bunch come from people interested in the homebrew scene.

 

I think there are people also interested in making a profit of Jag limited releases to counter your other point.

 

I'll counter that with the people from Reboot and Jagware who give games away for nothing first and then might make a CD release which sells out (available at a reasonable price too). At last years eJagFest sh3-rg was selling CD versions of Reboot games with printed covers for under 10 Euros and a discount if you bought more than one!

[Cobra Kai]

If you look at the comments and questions raised in the new game threads not many come from programmers but a whole bunch come from people interested in the homebrew scene.

 

 

 

I'll counter that with the people from Reboot and Jagware who give games away for nothing first and then might make a CD release which sells out (available at a reasonable price too). At last years eJagFest sh3-rg was selling CD versions of Reboot games with printed covers for under 10 Euros and a discount if you bought more than one!

 

You misunderstand, I think the developers sell games for a very fair amount, but there are other vulturous buyers. The Gorf thing was pretty screwed up, people were hocking that for big markups not long after it was sold. That's a possible reason for other releases to sell quickly, so they can be sold quickly at markup.

[sh3-rg]

Nobody said anything about purging developers

Including myself - I said new developments, the things developers make and release.

 

I just don't think it's healthy for the forum overall to have things all a one-way street which seems to be programming topics.

I don't see your one way street, I see many topics discussed. There are very few programming topics discussed in the main Jaguar forum - there's the Jag programming section for that. There might well be plenty of discussions about new games, tools, emulators and the like, but if that's what people want to talk about that's just the way it is. Try chatting about some of the good old Jaguar games with people who have been on this forum for 10 years.. hasn't it all been done to death? There's not much more to say, is there? Of course, people new to Jaguar pick up the systems & games all the time... I see them discussing the old games quite often - you should join in with them if you want to promote that kind of discussion.

 

This forum isn't healthy, just look what happens. I've never seen so many locked threads in any other forum on any message board anywhere.

How many threads have you seen locked recently? Want to know how many in the last 12 months? Out of 310 active threads in the Jaguar forum, there have only been 5 threads that have had to be locked. Of those, only two have been related to games released after the death of Atari. I think your memory is reaching back much further than the here and now and your view that bickering over new releases leads to arguments leads to thread locks holds no water. There have never been as many new Jaguar developments and announcements as there have been over the last 12 months or so I'd say.

 

It's the programmers that are bickering and flaming, not the gamers.

I've seen very little of that in recent times, you're thinking back to years gone by, it's only the antics of the other day that can be seen as anything like the old days.

 

The programming topics get so many page views because people probably enjoy reading all the flames, more of a goof than anything.

I think that's just your opinion rather than fact, there's nothing to suggest anything of the sort.

[+Sauron]

You misunderstand, I think the developers sell games for a very fair amount, but there are other vulturous buyers. The Gorf thing was pretty screwed up, people were hocking that for big markups not long after it was sold. That's a possible reason for other releases to sell quickly, so they can be sold quickly at markup.

 

Yes, this is definitely true. Tons of games go for absurd prices. There's been no shortage of profiteers who have made their way to the Jag.

[Willard]

let me explain why things are so messed up because my opinion is most important... is why this community is so messed up

[Austin]

I just purchased my first Jaguar with games...it is being shipped to me as we speak. Do I need to purchase a gas mask in order to play this thing without the risk of contracting a nasty case of thread-lock-itis?

 

Stay away from the cliques and involving yourself in any kind of drama (either directly or indirectly), and you will be golden. The system has some fun games on it, so enjoy it for what it is.

[CPUWIZ]

community

 

Please stop people, it's killing me.

[Austin]

There's the HSC though, which is a good thing, but there's not much strategy discussion in there, just pictures of scores.

 

I tried talking about strategy in the Jag HSC on multiple occasions, but what I've noticed (and this isn't relegated to just the Jag HSC) is that the average person doesn't really care to learn the ins and outs of a game. This is a shame in my opinion, because when you are trying to go for a high score, knowing the game well makes it feel the most rewarding. Very few seem to care though, and many players will drop a half-assed score where they literally played for two minutes and said, "Oh, hey! I'm done. Well played!". I feel it sort of defeats the spirit of the whole thing, but that's just me.

 

You want proof, just look at the topics list on the first page, nobody talks about the games really.

 

People talk about games. Remember that the Jaguar's library is pretty small though, so you can't expect the constant chatter that you will find in, say, the 2600 section. Basically, it's all been said before. People have their opinions and they have been stated dozens upon dozens of times in the past. Things get mixed up a bit in that regard when new members pop up, or an old member finally gets around to trying a game he has had an eye on for the last 15 years. That doesn't happen all that often though. The 7800 forum has the same problem, but there is so much going on there homebrew-wise, nobody really cares.

[+Sauron]

I'd personally love to see more discussions of games already in the Jag's library. I'd really like to see things like talks about all-time high scores, easter eggs in games, and even speed runs. Unfortunately, I think the community is just too small to focus on such things, and with speed runs, most of the good games don't lend themselves to such a thing. Most of the rest just aren't good enough for people to care.

 

If there are topics that you would like to see discussed, nothing's stopping you from starting in. In fact, please do.

[Robocop2]

As I have said many times, I just like video games. One system I happen to really like is the Jag. I don't care for the drama but I think a lot of that has gone away.

[bennybingo]

Now that I own a Jaguar, I thought I might need to change my avatar...

 

 

[Mxyzptlk]

Okay, to start with, I'm not posting this to cause any problems. I'm honestly curious. I'm a gamer, not a collector. I don't know care what system the game is on or who made it, I just care if it's a fun game. Most of my retro playing these days is done by emulator. I've only played a few Jag games.

 

I'm just really wondering about something, that I've been noticing over the last year or so, whenever I poke my head in here (as I do with all the sub forums here in AA):

 

What is it about the Jaguar scene that causes so much drama, name calling, inmature behavior, and locked threads?

 

I don't see the same ratio of this happening anywhere NEAR this level on the other sub forums here like the 2600 or the Intelivsion.

 

I don't really understand what makes the Jaguar so different, or special, as to cause all these problems.

 

Can anyone enlighten the damn curious with a serious and honest response?

Your post got me interested in this strange phenomenon in this forum. Search 'the laird' (whatever that means) and this guy/girl is certified nutty. Its posts are the probably the angriest posts on the Jag. forum I have read so far, but I am still reading.

[Jag_Slave]

You have to be crazy to like the Jag. It just comes out more from those folks when people keep poking at each other over silly disagreements.

[Lentzquest]

I think one factor is that Jag owners have been pretty much on the defensive since even before the console's release. In those days the big companies (i.e. Nintendo, Sega, and Sony on the horizon) had gaming magazine publishers and retailers in their back pockets. So when Atari started making announcements and releasing pictures of the Jag, the whole gaming industry seemed ready and almost excited to tear it a new one. The controller was being bashed before anyone ever even had the chance to hold one. Atari didn't have the marketing bucks to get anybody on their side, but their competition sure did. They could do no right in the eyes of the industry. Couple that with the thousand bad business decisions that Atari did make, and the few fans were certainly gonna get a lot of practice defending their purchase.

 

I still remember the clerk questioning me when I was buying my Jaguar. "Are you sure you don't want to wait for the Playstation?" He seemed disgusted with the fact that I wanted one. I went home that day with the console/Cybermorph, AvP, and Doom. Anybody that came over and played it ended up really liking it, and usually made a comment on not understanding why the magazines said it was so horrible.

[+wood_jl]

The basis is due to some emotional (you KNOW it's not based on reason) attachment to the Jag, and the Atari name. Lots of people (including me) were *seriously* wanting Atari to reclaim the glory of the 2600 days, when Atari was on top, and the de-facto standard in gaming. I wanted NOTHING MORE for this to actually happen. Well, it didn't. I don't care what anybody says individually, but the game library - for the most part - sucked. I'd rather play Mortal Kombat II on the SNES than Kasumi Ninja. I'd rather play Virtua Racing on the Genesis than Club Drive on the Jag. I'd already had my fill of Mario Kart when Atari Karts arrived. I am as big of an Atari fan as there is, but it was pretty clear that with the library this thing had, there was NO WAY IN HELL this thing was going to reclaim the Atari glory days, and of course it did not. Tempest 2000 alone wasn't going to do it. FINE. I was good with that, and I moved on, and played Donkey Kong Country on SNES, Tekken on PS1, and Sega Rally on Saturn. I don't give a rat's ass about "how many bits is this or that." I just want great games, and I didn't get much of that with the Jag. I did, with other consoles. I don't give a crap about why - I'm just saying that I did.

 

Some people just can't deal with it. Hence, the attitudes. Some say the Jag was a difficult system to develop for. If that's true, then I admire Jag programmers even more. Hats off to the technically-minded who accept and contend with a challenge. To those who are merely gamers and fanboys: grow up. It's just a game console. It's merely entertainment. It's not worth getting panties in a wad over. This suggestion will be rejected, however. Hence the first sentence in this reply.

[GroovyBee]

It's just a game console.

 

But.... but... the plastic... the smell... it.... it.... <shirt ripping noise> ..........

[sh3-rg]

But.... but... the plastic... the smell... it.... it.... <shirt ripping noise> ..........

 

 

Oh noes, the Bee got Jaguitis!

[onlysublime]

The Jaguar had some amazing games. I don't know why some people won't recognize that. NBA Jam TE was amazing and by far the best version of all the consoles. Power Drive Rally was amazing. The scrolling was just so smooth. Rayman was fantastic. T2K was great. Cannon Fodder was tons of fun. Doom was amazing. The second best version after the PC. Iron Soldier was just awesome. Super Burnout could be stacked against any arcade motorcycle game. Val D'isére Skiing and Snowboarding had the fastest smoothest graphics, even faster/smoother than Super Burnout. Wolfenstein 3D had the highest framerate and the most detailed updated graphics, even superior than the PC version.

 

Atari Karts was great. It's not Atari Karts's fault that you got your fill of Mario Kart.

[amiman99]

Speaking of JAG drama, what wast the bickering and arguing about in the BLOCKOUT thread?

Can someone give me a Short version in 3 sentences or less? I stopped following when my email box was full of replies.

 

Edit: By parties that were NOT involved in the conversation!

Edited September 19, 2012 by amiman99

[Cebus Capucinis]

Trolls trolling trolls.

 

Three words or less!