Atari's Promise Means it's Not Cheating

[+Random Terrain]

I just got done working on a new page for my web site:

 

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-cheating.html

 

 

Don't know where I'll put it yet, but at least it's done.

[Gorfy]

well-done, RT. I can't wait for the new breed of batari basic homebrews to start coming out

[+Random Terrain]

well-done, RT. I can't wait for the new breed of batari basic homebrews to start coming out

 

Thanks.

[Atari Adam]

I enjoyed your website immensely. I found it very informative, user friendly, and I enjoyed the way the layout is done. Everything well written and the links to VBb are a great help. This site is now bookmarked into my toolbar. As far as DPC+ games I am all for them. There are what the originators never had the chance to do. Great read. Well Said. Looking forward to updates on your website!

[+Gemintronic]

I never got the "cheating" argument anyway. Cartridge based systems have been self-upgrading their systems as a matter of course. The ultimate "cheat" would have been Hellraiser for the NES. It added an extra processor, logic chips and up to 4megs of RAM.

http://www.theman-cave.com/2010/02/oh-what-could-have-been-hellraiser-on.html

[GroovyBee]

I never got the "cheating" argument anyway. Cartridge based systems have been self-upgrading their systems as a matter of course. The ultimate "cheat" would have been Hellraiser for the NES. It added an extra processor, logic chips and up to 4megs of RAM.

http://www.theman-cave.com/2010/02/oh-what-could-have-been-hellraiser-on.html

 

Licensing an engine for a game that appeared in 1992 for a game developed in 1990. Hmmmmm......

[+Atari_Warlord]

I think the new developments are great. Maybe some of the April fools jokes can finally come true like Doom.

[PFL]

Hear, here! I was actually thinking about posting something similar here.

 

Puritanical views of what is or isn't a VCS (or any other legacy system for that matter) game only serve to hold back progress...

 

If DPC and DPC+ were fully embrace along with things like the Savekey, Atarivox, 2-button controller support, decent AV mods, pause mod et cetera can you imagine the kind of experiences we could all be having?!

[Chuck D. Head]

Very well done RT!!

[eshu]

I think this is a very interesting subject, and probably misunderstood by a lot of people.

 

I should probably put my cards on the table and admit that at first I was totally against all hardware enhancements like DPC+ and the XM for the 7800, then something suddenly occured to me - It's homebrew.....hardware.....Why should all the homebrew fun be limited to the software people? - of course some hardware people are going to get involved and have fun pushing the envelope that way.

 

Obviously nothing is cheating it's simply working within a different set of restraints. Let me say I don't think most of the people playing homebrew games on retro systems care about these restraints, but if you want to write a game for other people maybe you should consider writing a flash game or something for mobile phones. I think most people writing a game on a retro system are doing it either for the challange or because they have always wanted to have their game on that system. I think the different attitudes mainly stem from different motivations to produce a game for a retro system. I'm not saying one set of motivations is better or superior, just different. I think a lot of the people coding for the 2600 in assembly are doing it for the challange, and as part of that they will set their own restraints which may seem arbitrary to others - I think these mostly relate to it being possible 'back in the day'. An example is Solidcorp's version of Starcastle - I can totally relate to why he wanted to do it in 8k. Also Boulderdash was done without hardware assistance, Andrew and Thomas have pushed the boundaries of what bankswitching might have been feasable 'back in the day' but their still in the realms of what would have been possible.

 

Of course DPC+ itself is only a few steps beyond the sort of thing Boulderdash is using, and you could use some of the techniques proposed for the graduate add-on to justify some extreme hardware techniques (See http://www.atariage....e-the-graduate/ ) - but you do have to draw the line somewhere I thiink (personally I wouldn't call a cartridge containing a magical half-unicorn fairy a 2600 game). I don't think 256kb of RAM would ever have been feasable for a 2600 game during it's lifetime. Would a game using the 2600 for only input and output with the Harmony cart using bus stuffing to produce an extreme kernel and the game logic running entirely on the ARM chip really still be a 2600 game?

Edited October 15, 2012 by eshu

[+Random Terrain]

I enjoyed your website immensely. I found it very informative, user friendly, and I enjoyed the way the layout is done. Everything well written and the links to VBb are a great help. This site is now bookmarked into my toolbar. As far as DPC+ games I am all for them. There are what the originators never had the chance to do. Great read. Well Said. Looking forward to updates on your website!

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

I never got the "cheating" argument anyway. Cartridge based systems have been self-upgrading their systems as a matter of course. The ultimate "cheat" would have been Hellraiser for the NES. It added an extra processor, logic chips and up to 4megs of RAM.

http://www.theman-ca...lraiser-on.html

 

 

Didn't know about that one.

 

 

 

 

Puritanical views of what is or isn't a VCS (or any other legacy system for that matter) game only serve to hold back progress...

 

Yep.

 

 

 

 

Very well done RT!!

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Of course DPC+ itself is only a few steps beyond the sort of thing Boulderdash is using, and you could use some of the techniques proposed for the graduate add-on to justify some extreme hardware techniques (See http://www.atariage....e-the-graduate/ ) - but you do have to draw the line somewhere I thiink (personally I wouldn't call a cartridge containing a magical half-unicorn fairy a 2600 game). I don't think 256kb of RAM would ever have been feasible for a 2600 game during it's lifetime. Would a game using the 2600 for only input and output with the Harmony cart using bus stuffing to produce an extreme kernel and the game logic running entirely on the ARM chip really still be a 2600 game?

 

If Atari could have kept their promise, you wouldn't have to draw the line somewhere. Cartridge advancements would have continued over the years and would continue beyond 2012 (if we all don't die because of solar flare anarchy, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, alien invasion, giant space boobs, etc.). I don't care if a cart has the equivalent of a super computer inside. If the cart is affordable and it will work with an unmodified Atari 2600, it's still an Atari 2600 game. If the Atari 2600 is supposed to be a permanent part of my home entertainment center, there should be no need for the Atari 5200 or Atari 7800. Keep upgrading those Atari 2600 carts and I'll keep buying them. It won't diminish the Atari 2600 magic, it will only magnify it.

[sqoon]

I think the layout of http://best-electronics-ca.com/ is better

[Skud]

I'm wondering if the magical half-unicorn fairy has a fairy head and torso and unicorn legs, or the other way around. the former seems more likely, but then if its a unicorn it would have its horn on a fairies head which seems silly and unrealistic

 

[Lentzquest]

I figure it's like the bipedal unicorn from Gauntlet Dark Legacy, but with fairy wings and some awesome fairy bewbs.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The Fairy Unicorn is merely a horse with wings and a horn. Oh, and you can ride/fly on it, but you must be 6 inches tall because the horse is tiny.

 

I like the idea of bus-stuffing the VCS and using the ARM processor already inside the Harmony to do it. Would it be possible for a ROM to directly interface the ARM processor inside the Harmony? Maybe someone could reflash the Harmony with a special boot-loader that auto-loads a massive ARM game off the SD card. The 70 Mhz ARM spits the graphics data directly into the TIA as a continuous stream of updated background colors, completely bypassing the CPU! 70MHz ARM and an unlimited rom size could even serve full motion 160x192 video frames to the Atari at 60Hz!

Edited October 18, 2012 by stardust4ever

[+Yurkie]

Real nice looking site, with looks of interesting information RT!

 

I was reading about Pause for the 2600 on your site and it mentioned using the B&W switch for pausing. Are there any games that use this, or was it going to be something that would be used in the future? While I am asking that, do homebrews use the switch for pausing? If not I thinking of using the B&W switch on my Sears light sixer along with pause mod board from the AtariAge store.

[+Random Terrain]

Real nice looking site, with looks of interesting information RT!

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

I was reading about Pause for the 2600 on your site and it mentioned using the B&W switch for pausing. Are there any games that use this, or was it going to be something that would be used in the future? While I am asking that, do homebrews use the switch for pausing? If not I thinking of using the B&W switch on my Sears light sixer along with pause mod board from the AtariAge store.

 

Seaweed Assault has a pause feature using the COLOR/BW switch:

 

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-program-seaweed-assault.html#pause

 

 

Below are Atari 2600 games with a pause feature that can be found by searching Atari 2600 manuals at AtariAge using the word pause and freeze. This list is incomplete since some games don't have an HTML manual posted at AtariAge.

 

 

COLOR/BW switch:

 

Beany Bopper - 20th Century Fox

Challenge of Nexar - Spectravision

Cross Force - Spectravision

Double Dunk - Atari

Fantastic Voyage - 20th Century Fox

Fast Eddie - 20th Century Fox

Flash Gordon - 20th Century Fox

KLAX - Atari

No Escape! - Imagic

Out of Control - Avalon Hill

Q*bert's Qubes - Parker Brothers

Quest for Quintana Roo - Sunrise

Radar Lock - Atari

Rescue Terra I - VentureVision

Secret Quest - Atari

Sentinel - Atari

Shuttle Orbiter - Avalon Hill

Spacemaster X-7 - 20th Century Fox

Super Cobra - Parker Brothers

Super Football - Atari

Turmoil - 20th Century Fox

 

 

 

Game Select Switch:

 

Star Wars: Death Star Battle - Parker Brothers

Superman - Atari (resume play by moving the joystick in any direction)

 

 

 

Left Difficulty Switch:

 

Burgertime - M Network

Kool Aid Man - M Network

X-Man - Universal Gamex

 

 

 

Right Difficulty Switch:

 

Masters of the Universe - He Man - M Network

Survival Island - Starpath

 

 

 

Jump in a Well:

 

E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial - Atari

 

 

 

Pause by Cheating:

 

Crazy Climber - Atari

 

 

 

And the Atari 2600 Beamrider manual says:

 

Pause the action whenever you like by pressing zero (0) on the hand

controller. Screen will go black. To resume the game, press any other

key.

 

Sounds like they are talking about the Atari 5200, unless the Atari 2600 game came with a special controller.

 

 

 

 

You might want to check out these threads too:

 

www.atariage.com/forums/topic/101898-games-with-pause-features/

 

www.atariage.com/forums/topic/44416-was-e-t-the-first-game-with-a-way-to-pause-during-play/