313 replies to this topic

[The OptiTron]

My earlier infromation from the former Coleco employee is true, and not part of this joke. That is, that some code was actually written for the game back in the early '80s, which did produce the city building display. (Though definatley not PAL, and the correct scan lines for NTSC).

Now that someone had made a very similar demo, how in the world, if a real copy of the early work in progress of Turbo ever surfaces, will it be believed???? The code did exist, so have we (collectively) invalidated the possibility of it being found?

Hats off to the programmers, but be careful what you do.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The OptiTron said:

My earlier infromation from the former Coleco employee is true, and not part of this joke.     That is, that some code was actually written for the game back in the early '80s, which did produce the city building display.  (Though definatley not PAL, and the correct scan lines for NTSC).

Thanks for helping the story looking valid. I almost bursted when I read that post first. :-)

BTW: The ROM is NTSC, just with a few more lines (like other prototypes e.g. RS Basketball).

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Now that someone had made a very similar demo, how in the world, if a real copy of the early work in progress of Turbo ever surfaces, will it be believed????   The code did exist, so have we (collectively) invalidated the possibility of it being found?

If you are willing to dump it, it would cost me only a few minutes to find out. I can recognized my own code, even if it's manipulated.

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Hats off to the programmers, but be careful what you do.

Thanks! And well, you better be careful what you believe.

If someone can (almost) fool you on April 1st, it can be done everytime.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

The OptiTron said:

Now that someone had made a very similar demo, how in the world, if a real copy of the early work in progress of Turbo ever surfaces, will it be believed????   The code did exist, so have we (collectively) invalidated the possibility of it being found?

Sorry, I don't get that. Is there any problem, even if the real thing wasn't believed anymore now? And why should the real thing now disappear - as consequence of the fake

Greetings,
Manuel

[ATARI TROLL]

Everyone's brain has turned into mush form the mindgames!
ROFL LMFAO

Cheers

Nice one

[Nukey Shay]

Cybergoth said:

Hi there!

The OptiTron said:

Now that someone had made a very similar demo, how in the world, if a real copy of the early work in progress of Turbo ever surfaces, will it be believed????   The code did exist, so have we (collectively) invalidated the possibility of it being found?

Sorry, I don't get that. Is there any problem, even if the real thing wasn't believed anymore now? And why should the real thing now disappear - as consequence of the fake

Greetings,
Manuel

What he's saying is this:
Hypothetical situation...in the very near future, you meet somebody selling things at a thrift. It just so happens that he has a board marked Turbo in his boxes of stuff. You ask about it, but details are sketchy...since he aquired it from somebody else. Anyway, you buy it...but how do you know that it is in fact THE prototype, and just not something that has been recently programmed? Would such a thing even be possible to check? Thomas stated that he can recognize his own code...but what if someone else did exactly what he did (only less honestly)? Will this affect how you see undiscovered protos in the future?

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

Nukey Shay said:

What he's saying is this:
Hypothetical situation...in the very near future, you meet somebody selling things at a thrift.  It just so happens that he has a board marked Turbo in his boxes of stuff.  You ask about it, but details are sketchy...since he aquired it from somebody else.  Anyway, you buy it...but how do you know that it is in fact THE prototype, and just not something that has been recently programmed?  Would such a thing even be possible to check?  Thomas stated that he can recognize his own code...but what if someone else did exactly what he did (only less honestly)?  Will this affect how you see undiscovered protos in the future?

Ah, ok. I see.

As to answer your final question: I only care about games. If someone comes up with a cool new racing game, be it called Turbo, I don't care if this was programmed yesterday or 20 years ago or if it's the real thing or fake. Either it is a good game or not. If the selfmade stuff was released quicker than the real thing, I'd say it's just bad luck for the guy sitting on the real proto for 20 years. And even if there's 2 complete Turbos existing some day, I'd go and buy the better one.
About any unfinished/unplayable stuff I actually don't care at all...

Assuming Thomas Turbo fake was further advanced than the real thing, who'd need the real thing then?

Greetings,
Manuel

[Paul Slocum]

Thomas Jentzsch said:

I was meant to make you nervous. IMO being paranoid is better than  being betrayed (although you might feel better as long as you don't know that).

Other guys may not be as stupid as Flexured or as honest as me.

Seems like faking a prototype would be a pretty stupid business plan all around. Considering the time it takes to learn 2600 programming, program it, take screenshots and make all the correspondence to sell it, you'd have spent a lot more time than it would be worth. You'd make a lot more money spending the same amount of time at an embedded systems programming job!! Plus you have a good chance of getting caught, and you have to obtain a prototype board anyway which isn't cheap.

-Paul

[Nukey Shay]

The ones who collect protos I've always been a bit suspicious about protos (especially "timely" ones...like LOTR)...so it really doesn't change my opinion of them.

[Godzilla]

Godzilla said:

something TJ (or someone,) coded for april fools day.... :-)

Sometimes I hate being right :-)

Still look forward to seeing the real proto that arnie played, with multiple areas and all, one day.

[mos6507]

What I find most notable about this incident is that we are at the point where prototypes really aren't the nexus of the 2600 scene anymore, but rather it's the homebrewers that count.

Of course, if Thomas disappeared maybe it would be a different story...

Thomas' work on Sprintmaster and especially River Raid was a turning point.

When we're at a stage when a homebrewer can go in and enhance a completed and optimized 2600 game like that, it shows the level of sophistication that today's homebrewer possesses.

The uncharted territory of the 2600 is now explorable via today's homebrewers.

And yes, I would like to see what Thomas or someone else could do to finish Turbo.

I'd also like to see someone finish Elevator Action, maybe making it a 16K superchip game rather than 8K.

[Nukey Shay]

Adventure Redux (32k) ...I mean Reducks.

Sigggghhh

[sku_u]

Personally, if a game surfaces and is playable and is supposedly a prototype, I could care less if it was programmed yesterday or 25 years ago. If I can play it and it's fun, and it's a copy and not the supposed original, that's all that matters to me.

I learned my lesson with prototypes last year. I was at a flea market and came across a bunch of Atari 5200 merchandise. The games were fairly priced for what they were. After sorting through them, I noticed what looked like a real prototype sitting in the seller's display case. Upon closer inspection, the lab loaner label looked authentic and the information on it said that it was the final version of Ballblazer. The seller wanted $50 and I talked him down to $40.

I got home and guess what!?! It was Pac-Man. I went back to the seller and demanded and received a full refund. In retrospect, I probably should have held onto it so I could do detailed screenshots to post here as a warning to everyone, but I didn't even know this site existed. I was primarily looking at Atarihq for information.

I will never buy another "prototype" again unless it costs me a few dollars or less or is from someone reputable (like Joystick Jolter).

After this prank, however, I have to question purchasing prototypes from honest reputable people and I can see why Ebay want's nothing to do with prototypes.

I still think this was a great prank, though

[Zach]

That was cruel Thomas, extending the joke over 24 hours. It's April fool's DAY!

I did get suspicious when CPU Wiz retracted the 4k binary with no explanation. Didn't want people disassembling, did you?

(edit) OK, I've vented. Good job, Thomas. Excellent attention to detail. I thought the traceroute was going to get you, but didn't know a moderator was on your side.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Zach Matley said:

That was cruel Thomas, extending the joke over 24 hours. It's April fool's DAY!  

Yes, and since this is a worldwide community every day lasts 47 hours.

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I did get suspicious when CPU Wiz retracted the 4k binary with no explanation. Didn't want people disassembling, did you?

Did he? I didn't know that. Bad CPUWIZ, bad!

8K was mainly meant to make look more vaild, and because CPU owns an 8K Coleco proto board.

[liquid_sky]

you can disassemble 8k too.. just not with distella

[Zach]

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NovaXpress wrote:

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Is there a way to verify the age of the actual prototype board and prove when the data it contains was created? If we cannot trust the software, can we trust the hardware?  

No, there is no way to do that.

So is this still your opinion, CPUWIZ? Or was it part of your cover-up?

[MegaManFan]

DEBRO said:

My hat goes off to Thomas and CPUWIZ. This is the best April Fools hoax yet.

So good, it's depressing that it turned out to be a fake.

[rasty]

Hi there!

I really don't understand why this joke should be bad for the prototypes "business"..
I assume that if anyone's shelling out big bucks to buy a prototype, they'd be sure of its origin (like, knowing the seller). This is, AFAIK, what currently already happens for the most part.
And if you don't know the seller and are going to buy a "prototype" anyway.. be ready for anything! (like sku_u teaches )
This is always true despite the ability of a homebrewer being able to fake a prototype.

Actually, I think/hope that this April fools will make people a little more cautious about prototypes, therefore being able to rule out any fakes that may surface (and I don't mean harmless jokes, but people trying to cash in on a fake proto)...

liquid_sky said:

you can disassemble 8k too.. just not with distella

oh yes you can.. Thomas explained in detail how to do it.. and it works! (of course!)
Requires a lot of extra work thou

greets,
Rasty.-

[liquid_sky]

really? it would probally would go over my head so quickly

[CPUWIZ]

Zach Matley said:

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NovaXpress wrote:

Quote

Is there a way to verify the age of the actual prototype board and prove when the data it contains was created? If we cannot trust the software, can we trust the hardware?  

No, there is no way to do that.

So is this still your opinion, CPUWIZ? Or was it part of your cover-up?

Yes, I do not think it is possible.

Wow, ranked #4 on the statistics page, I didn't think it would go that far.

[Nathan Strum]

Nukey Shay said:

Just a note about those pages...the font is really hard to read.  I had to resort to using ctrl-a  You might want to consider using the same color as the captions just to the left of the text.

I'll pass that along to the site op. I didn't design Cinemarcade, I just contributed the "review" to it. Most of my effort went into "the KLOV entry".

Back to the topic at hand...

I think that the Turbo hoax is probably a good thing, in the long run. Could someone be duped into buying this as a proto? Sure. But the bottom line is: let the buyer beware. The more aware people are that things like this are possible, the better. If word gets around enough, then future protoypes will be far more closely scrutinized when they appear.

You can bet when the real Turbo does surface (probably in another 364 days) that it will go through a very extensive confirmation process to make sure it's the real deal. The best proof, would be a direct, verifiable paper trail all the way back to Coleco. A handful of pictures on eBay won't do it anymore.

I want to say again how impressed I am with this whole hoax. Actually programming a running demo takes it to a whole different level, and must have required considerable effort. How long has this been brewing, and how many hours did it take you to get that to work, Thomas?

[Buck]

mos6507 said:

What I find most notable about this incident is that we are at the point where prototypes really aren't the nexus of the 2600 scene anymore, but rather it's the homebrewers that count.

The uncharted territory of the 2600 is now explorable via today's homebrewers.

I have been reading these posts for quite some time now and feel as though I know all of you regular posters as well as you know each other. I usually don't have much to say, but I wanted to add my two cents in on this. I find it amazing that the 2600 scene has come full circle. Collecting the oldies is said and done for just about anybody who is into retrogaming. Furthermore, I think that anyone who is going to rediscover retrogaming will have done so by now. (I personally started back up again in 97-98 and feel like I got in on the tail end.) Sooo.... with everyone who has been and is still into the Atari scene, the excitement lies in fresh games! (read full circle : just like when we were kids, we wanted what was fresh and new!!) The homebrewer is defintitly what counts today. So my thanks to Thomas or Bushie or whatever you wish to call yourself today On a side note: Can the Modern releases be called "homebrews" since they are published might professionally by AtariAge and others? (Yes I know they were probably programmed at the respective homes of each programmer, but I'd bet that was the case with the first gen releases, too) Just a thought...

Thanks for listening

Buck

[cryptik76]

Gateway To Aphsai said:

Good One, guys! This beats the hoax they are trying on us with Duke Nukem Forever!

I'm not sure if I would call the Duke Nukem Forever joke a "hoax," since anyone could tell by reading the description that it's all done tongue-in-cheek. From reading the recent thread, though, I'm not sure everybody realized it was a joke.

[ZylonBane]

cryptik76 said:

From reading the recent thread, though, I'm not sure everybody realized it was a joke.

Some people have more optimism than common sense.

A LOT more.

[bloatedmonkey]

Collecting prototypes carries risk. That's a given. What's worring me now is the growing number of reproductions being sold on ebay. Although the sellers are honest and are disclosing the fact that they are repros, they can (and will) be resold as the genuine thing. And it's often hard to tell what you have without removing the label and opening the cartridge. I fear the value of hard to find games will diminish when their authenticity becomes questioned. Sorry for the sidenote.