Jump to content

Jaguar DOOM Source Code Released!


98 replies to this topic

#26  

    Stargunner

  • 1,043 posts
  • Joined: 03-August 02
  • Location:Germany

Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:09 PM

Hi!

Alex Czarnowski said:

First of all let me say this is wonderful news.  

Matthias said:

No, as said, i just called MAKE and got it compiled.
I'll mail you a directory-listing of my GCC for comparison and my AUTOEXEC.BAT.

Matthias

I would be grateful if you could send those information too. I guess setting up web page whit all those details would not hurt either :)

Cheers

Didn't thought someone else would use this c-compiler...

Bye
Matthias

#27  

    Dragonstomper

  • 886 posts
  • Joined: 03-February 02
  • Location:Italy

Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:29 PM

Sorry to repeat mysef, guys, but...
I read that the WAD file isn't included.
Does anybody know why?
And is this going to affect the restyle/creation of new graphics?

#28  

    Stargunner

  • 1,708 posts
  • Joined: 10-December 01
  • Location:Italy

Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:42 PM

Probably it's have something to do with copyright... I think.

#29  

    Stargunner

  • 1,475 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 03
  • Location:Oregon

Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:46 PM

Although I have gotten a scoff on another forum about my post in this thread I think my questions were legitimate.

Although after watching the interest generated by the release of Jagdoom source code on this thread I think something great is going to come of this. I believe it's the Jag's destiny to have the best version of this game. Actually I think it is the Jag's destiny to have the best versions of the entire series. Everyone it seems has waited a long time for this. Let's start building this dream now. :grin:

#30  

    Space Invader

  • 17 posts
  • Joined: 21-February 02
  • Location:Providence of Iga

Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:34 PM

Man Chris, you got me all excited!

#31  

    Space Invader

  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 03
  • Location:Andernach / Germany

Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:24 PM

Hi,

great IDEA !

what about making a shareware episode of DOOM1 ? I think the wad of ths shareware epsiode ist free isnt it ?

#32  

    Stargunner

  • 1,739 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 01
  • Location:UK

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:21 AM

DarkVamp said:

Hi,

great IDEA !

what about making a shareware episode of DOOM1 ? I think the wad of ths shareware epsiode ist free isnt it ?

Yes, but not the code - you can't sell something using their engine without their permission. They just said there was no way in hell they'd give you permission if it had their original WAD file in it ;)

Stone

#33  

    Space Invader

  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 28-April 03
  • Location:Andernach / Germany

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:50 AM

Hi,

why sell ??? FREEWARE !!!

DOOM2 & DOOM1 as FreeWare version with the shareware WAD files from id software !

#34  

    Chopper Commander

  • 134 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 02
  • Location:U.K.

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:06 AM

one of the first things i'd like to see in jagdoom, would be music..i know most of you say it's kinda better without it, but it would still be nice to have the choice..

while i was looking into this i remembered that a bloke called Patrice Mandin had coded his own doom engine for the Atari Falcon before ID had released the source, it was all going well until they did and then he dropped his engine, it was pretty nice work about 60% complete, and it also had music, if you loaded in a midi music file to get it.

unfortunately his web site has no reference to this now, but mine still does,
if you are interested have a look.. http://shack.atari.org look in the download section

email him and ask for info, i'm sure he'd be happy to help

#35  

    River Patroller

  • 2,501 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:04 AM

neo_rg said:

one of the first things i'd like to see in jagdoom, would be music..i know most of you say it's kinda better without it, but it would still be nice to have the choice..

while i was looking into this i remembered that a bloke called Patrice Mandin had coded his own doom engine for the Atari Falcon before ID had released the source, it was all going well until they did and then he dropped his engine, it was pretty nice work about 60% complete, and it also had music, if you loaded in a midi music file to get it.

unfortunately his web site has no reference to this now, but mine still does,
if you are interested have a look.. http://shack.atari.org   look in the download section

email him and ask for info, i'm sure he'd be happy to help


Does anyone have an executable of this? It would be nice to see some evidence that it really worked. I've seen a lot of people make a lot of claims like this and never ever produce a scrap of code for anyone else to try out.

Thanks!

#36  

    Space Invader

  • 41 posts
  • Joined: 24-July 02
  • Location:France

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:15 AM

hi !

Patrice's site is still online :

http://membres.lycos...so.html#DoomDsp

#37  

    Chopper Commander

  • 134 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 02
  • Location:U.K.

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:11 AM

doh! :D and there's me looking at and old url, yes indeed that's the one, btw i do have the midi file at my web site although it may be old and have been updated by now..

anyway, the thing is, if someone did something with this doom engine then id would have no say, the only holdback would be wad files, you couldn't use the originals or sound/graphics from them, but there are plenty of custom made wads floating about with different textures and characters, even sounds too, so making a "doom clone" where id don't have a say is probable, as i've seen many "total conversions" done, but a multiplayer deathmatch mode is a must!! if only for the networking lark you'd get at at jagfest etc. etc.

#38  

    Stargunner

  • 1,739 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 01
  • Location:UK

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:38 AM

neo_rg said:

one of the first things i'd like to see in jagdoom, would be music..i know most of you say it's kinda better without it, but it would still be nice to have the choice..

IIRC, there was a simple on/off switch to have music in-game at compile-time. ID left it switched off because it made the networking worse, apparently. However, given that the network bug was fixed as a sideeffect of some other mods that were made, I don't see how there'd be a problem with turning it on...or at least providing the option to do so.

FWIW, I prefer it with music too :D

Stone

#39  

    Quadrunner

  • 5,703 posts
  • Joined: 30-December 01
  • Moongates to the Past

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:08 AM

Maybe we could offer the option to play a music CD while Doom is in like the PC version does (or atleast Quake offers that) :D

#40  

    River Patroller

  • 2,548 posts
  • Joined: 26-December 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:24 AM

Hi,

All good ideas but first we need to kill this nasty networking bug :sad:

#41  

    Dragonstomper

  • 919 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 03
  • Underground but not dead.
  • Location:England or Holland

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:41 AM

JagChris said:

Although after watching the interest generated by the release of Jagdoom source code on this thread I think something great is going to come of this.  
Well please don't get too excited, there was a team working with Carl over this some time ago, and Carl would have indeed loved to have published a DOOM+ which was the original idea, with ID, but technical problems with the WAD format prevented this. Carl even enlisted the help of the (leading?) WAD editor company, and they examined it, but could not produce a compatible editor for the WAD file unfortunately, and the Jaguar file is not a normal version.

That is not to say that with more minds looking at it, that it cannot be cracked, but it's not just a matter of "tweaking" a PC WAD file a bit and hey presto, a new Jaguar game. It needs serious work...


JagChris said:

I believe it's the Jag's destiny to have the best version of this game. Actually I think it is the Jag's destiny to have the best versions of the entire series.  
Well I hate to be the downer on this too, but I'd like to point out that DOOM 2 isn't just the DOOM engine with a new WAD file, it's a seriously updated game engine with lots of new features, unless I'm very much mistaken.

JagChris said:

Everyone it seems has waited a long time for this. Let's start building this dream now. :grin:
Perhaps Carl would be kind enough to open up the Yahoo forum which was used to discuss the technical aspects of the game in the past, or to publish some of the technical reports from the WAD editor people and other aspects such as this, or let me do so... That could then continue as the Jaguar DOOM discussion forum...

In reply to the suggestion about using CD audio during the game, there is a fundamental difference in the architecture of a PC and a Jaguar. The Jaguar CD audio needs to be piped through the DSP processor which also provides the network support, and as the objective of using CD audio instead of Doom music would (I guess) be to reduce the load on the DSP, so that it could still adequately process network activities, then this would in fact not work I think as intended. It might be best to try for a non-network game 1st!


However, I can see that there are various ways to save space in the game, there are lots resources that could be better used, but the basic problem is going to be creating a new WAD file, even a simple one room WAD file was long discussed but never achieved due the lack of a compatible editor, or conversion tool, or any documented details on the structure of the non-standard WAD.

I notice that somebody has "discovered" the extra cheat codes, on JI2, (http://www.atarihq.com/interactive) and to be honest I didn't realise that they weren't already known, but I guess that it might be best to accept that a version of the game with the very same WAD image as now, but with enhancements to the game-play and more tweaks is the only way to be sure of a new Jaguar DOOM.


Cheers,
JustClaws.

#42  

    Quadrunner

  • 5,703 posts
  • Joined: 30-December 01
  • Moongates to the Past

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:15 PM

Ok, how the hell did they create the original one!

#43  

    Stargunner

  • 1,739 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 01
  • Location:UK

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:58 PM

Goochman said:

Ok, how the hell did they create the original one!

If you're takling about the WAD file, that's the trouble...none of them can remember!

It was quite a while ago...:ponder:

Stone

#44  

    River Patroller

  • 2,548 posts
  • Joined: 26-December 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:43 PM

Stone said:

Goochman said:

Ok, how the hell did they create the original one!

If you're takling about the WAD file, that's the trouble...none of them can remember!

It was quite a while ago...:ponder:

Stone

This is true, I contacted ID soft John C and another person Dave T. they both programmed on the Jag-port. None of the sources or tools were left. John C. didn't had time because of DOOM 3 and he didn't remember much. Dave T. wrote some e-mail with me about this WAD file and this is what he could remember.

The first question was about the DOOM port for the Jaguar and asked him to tell me what he could remember.

Quote

If I had to venture a guess, the Jaguar WAD format is probably simply big-endian instead of little-endian.  We may have also taken out string file/lump-names to save a little space, but I doubt it.

Yes, the C compiler was crap.  Ran in DOS.  Piece of shit.  That was just for the 68k code, of course.  I think we used a combination of asm and a ported lcc for the DSP & GPU.

The second question was of these bytes at the end of the WAD file that seem to be useless...

Quote

There are a couple of likely possibilities.  One is that we simply left them in and didn't use them and forgot to pull them out.  Another is that when we were burning test carts, the final image ended up shorter than a previous image, so you're looking at the remnants of the end of the previous WAD file.

Try replacing them with repeating 0xdeadbeef's and find out if that breaks the game.  If not, then it's probably just noise.

You're aware of how buggy that platform is, right?  One of the interesting little issues is that the DSP processor, one of the two most important processors on the machine, can't write reliably to memory.

We did replace the bytes and it seems that these bytes are not used...

Maybe someone else can update also more on this story....

TXG/MNX

#45  

    River Patroller

  • 2,548 posts
  • Joined: 26-December 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:10 PM

Hmm I thought the GBA version of DOOM was based on the Jaguar version when this is true we could check if the WAD of the GBA is the same as in the Jaguar maybe we can use this info to get more info about the WAD format....

Can someone confirm this info...

TXG/MNX

#46  

    Quadrunner

  • 27,072 posts
  • Joined: 23-January 01
  • Location:NGC 224

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:14 PM

TXG/MNX said:

Hmm I thought the GBA version of DOOM was based on the Jaguar version when this is true we could check if the WAD of the GBA is the same as in the Jaguar maybe we can use this info to get more info about the WAD format....

I have also heard this, but I'm not sure how much truth there is to it. The GBA and Jaguar hardware are pretty different, so even if the Jaguar source was used as a starting point, I bet there are some pretty significant changes under the hood..

..Al

#47  

    River Patroller

  • 2,548 posts
  • Joined: 26-December 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:32 PM

hmm okay the port to the GBA could be different but the WAD format could be the same (maybe)

Just found a link

Quote

that also confirms that the Jaguar source was used to created the GBA version....

TXG/MNX

#48  

    River Patroller

  • 2,501 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:33 PM

TXG/MNX said:

hmm okay the port to the GBA could be different but the WAD format could be the same (maybe)

Just found a link

Quote

that also confirms that the Jaguar source was used to created the GBA version....

TXG/MNX


Wouldn't it be easier to make the Doom code understand a "real" .WAD file instead of trying to reverse engineer the proprietary .JagWAD? Seems to me like this is putting the horse before the cart.

#49  

    Stargunner

  • 1,475 posts
  • Joined: 03-March 03
  • Location:Oregon

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:42 PM

Hi JustClaws

Well, those seem to be big problems, but are they impossible? Insurmouhtable? Unconquerable? C;mon now. Think positive. I know it is just words to say me mot being a programmer but I am confident one of you brilliant bastards will crack it. Sometime. When you least expect it. I believe persistence is all powerful. Look at Battlesphere. A landmark Jaguar game. Done by the developers from scratch with almost no help. In their spare time. Alone. Then redone and improved. And as an earlier post said in this thread these things have already been done on the Jag. It is not impossible.

Think POSITIVE POSITIVE POSITIVE. Thank you. :D

#50  

    River Patroller

  • 2,501 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 02

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:08 PM

JagChris said:

Hi JustClaws

Well, those seem to be big problems, but are they impossible? Insurmouhtable? Unconquerable? C;mon now. Think positive. I know it is just words to say me mot being a programmer but I am confident one of you brilliant bastards will crack it. Sometime. When you least expect it. I believe persistence is all powerful. Look at Battlesphere. A landmark Jaguar game. Done by the developers from scratch with almost no help. In their spare time. Alone. Then redone and improved. And as an earlier post said in this thread these things have already been done on the Jag. It is not impossible.

Think POSITIVE POSITIVE POSITIVE. Thank you. :D


What do you mean "almost no help"?





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users