98 replies to this topic

[JagChris]

My understanding was that you guys(Scatologic/4-play) had almost no help from Atari when you began working on Battlesphere. I even believe I read somewhere you guys(Scatologic) believed Atari didn't even like you. Am I wrong in this impression?

[Thunderbird]

JagChris said:

My understanding was that you guys(Scatologic/4-play) had almost no help from Atari when you began working on Battlesphere. I even believe I read somewhere you guys(Scatologic) believed Atari didn't even like you. Am I wrong in this impression?

"Almost none" would imply that there was SOME help given. What little help we got was obtained second hand through other developers mostly, or via the developer RoundTable we set up on GEnie at the time.

[Alex Czarnowski]

Thunderbird said:

Wouldn't it be easier to make the Doom code understand a "real" .WAD file instead of trying to reverse engineer the proprietary .JagWAD? Seems to me like this is putting the horse before the cart.

Agree. It can take a lot of time to reverse code that parses Jaguar WAD files. By changing parser code so it can be compatible with rest of the world I see only advantages - even if it would take more time than reversing and guessing how to parse Jaguar WAD files assuming that there are more differences than just big-endian / little-endian change.
Just my 2 cents
Cheers,

[TXG/MNX]

Thunderbird said:

TXG/MNX said:

hmm okay the port to the GBA could be different but the WAD format could be the same (maybe)

Just found a link

Quote

http://www.gamefaqs....iew/R28752.html

that also confirms that the Jaguar source was used to created the GBA version....

TXG/MNX

Wouldn't it be easier to make the Doom code understand a "real" .WAD file instead of trying to reverse engineer the proprietary .JagWAD? Seems to me like this is putting the horse before the cart.

Could be done maybe ... but cost some time to convert data I think...

[TXG/MNX]

Alex Czarnowski said:

Thunderbird said:

Wouldn't it be easier to make the Doom code understand a "real" .WAD file instead of trying to reverse engineer the proprietary .JagWAD? Seems to me like this is putting the horse before the cart.

Agree. It can take a lot of time to reverse code that parses Jaguar WAD files. By changing parser code so it can be compatible with rest of the world I see only advantages - even if it would take more time than reversing and guessing how to parse Jaguar WAD files assuming that there are more differences than just big-endian / little-endian change.
Just my 2 cents
Cheers,

Using normal wad's could be cool... but these JAG-WAD must contain some extra usefull info I think, why should ID go the hard-way when they could do an easy port???

[Alex Czarnowski]

"TXG/MNX said:

Could be done maybe ... but cost some time to convert data I think...

I don't know a lot about WAD file format but converting data is not a big problems especially if you did it before for other formats - code in perl or python could do it easily.

Cheers,

[EricBall]

My 2 cents as an outside observer:

- first priority is for those people who have the ability (and time and inclination) to work with the source code to speak up and get in contact with one another.
- the next priority would be to establish a working compile & test environment (documenting what needs to be done so it can be easily duplicated), and maybe a code library (like sourceforge)
- only then should changes be attempted to the code, either as a concentrated or individual efforts

As far as WAD files go there are two logical options: either determine what is required to convert a standard Doom 1 WAD file to Jaguar format (and then developing a conversion tool), or modify the Jag code to handle standard WADs. The conversion tool might be easier, especially since a comparison with the basic Doom WAD with the JagWAD should be possible. (I'm also a great believer in not making large code changes if I can get away with it.)

[Alex Czarnowski]

EricBall said:

My 2 cents as an outside observer:

- first priority is for those people who have the ability (and time and inclination) to work with the source code to speak up and get in contact with one another.
- the next priority would be to establish a working compile & test environment (documenting what needs to be done so it can be easily duplicated), and maybe a code library (like sourceforge)
- only then should changes be attempted to the code, either as a concentrated or individual efforts

Hi,
I believe some parts of this process are already going on. Matthias has good info on how to setup GCC... I guess there more than a dozen of people already browsing through source - there was already an issue regarding cheats code discussed on JI2 forum. I'm sure other people can provide more information on this subject. But for next couple of days let us just enjoy fact of having access to those files

Cheers,

[Hyper_Eye]

I think the best thing to do for a new release is this:

1) Forget the original WAD. There's no way anyone is going to release an improved JagDoom with the original WAD. As I am still huge into Doom I am aware of some excellent WAD's used today that could go into an improved version. The only problem is that most wad's depend on the original wad to be used. If it were possible to take this dependency away that would be great. If that were possible I would lean towards Dwango5.wad, Dwango6.wad, or DcDwango.wad... especially if multi-player is the main focus. Of course... you could also see if there are some wad's out there that don't have the dependency but I am yet to find one in all the years I have played Doom.

2) As stated previously... networking needs to be improved. I am not very familiar with the new ethernet port yet but that sounds like a great route to go if it is possible. I am wondering if this ethernet port would allow you to develop a tcp connection into a game. As I said... I don't know much about it... but if it is possible then I think a Zdaemon port to Jaguar would be absolutely awesome.... though difficult. Someone would have to maintain a master-server specific to the Jag (seperate from the main one) as you wouldnt be able to release ZDaemon updates (unless you released in an ISO so people could burn a new cd when theres updates.) A port od Zdaemon may be too difficult to accomplish. It would be nice though.

[Hyper_Eye]

Just for future reference you can edit posts

[justclaws]

Hello,

There is now a Yahoo group for Jaguar DOOM source code development.
http://groups.yahoo....aguar-dev-doom/

Come and contribute your skills or thoughts to this open forum for Jaguar
DOOM fans who want to help create a new game based on these sources.
Graphics, sound, a complete new WAD needs to be created, and nobody
knows how today. Can a new game for JUGS or BJL be created? Maybe!

The source code is there, but can you modify it to make it better? Can
you be the person who will fix the network bugs? Can you be the person
who will find out how to support standard PC WAD files for new games?
Do you have problems building the new code? Let's talk about it here.

Cheers,
JustClaws.

[jonwil]

I dont know much about the jaguar (havent even seen one before, found this thread following a link at a doom website) but I do know a fair bit about DOOM and about how a wad file works.
Mabie I can help to figure out how the jaguar wad file works (well if I can get a jaguar wad file to play with anyway

Oh and BTW, Doom II is the same engine as Doom but with different maps, some different graphics and a few other things.

Also, you might want to check out Freedoom.
Their goal is to create a Free Software wad file for doom. (its licenced under something similar to the BSD licence). Mabie using the Freedoom work as a base for a jaguar doom wad could work...

[Matthias]

Hello!

jonwil said:

I dont know much about the jaguar (havent even seen one before, found this thread following a link at a doom website) but I do know a fair bit about DOOM and about how a wad file works.
Mabie I can help to figure out how the jaguar wad file works (well if I can get a jaguar wad file to play with anyway

Thanks for offering your help!

But one of the problems with the Jaguar-DOOM is, that id-software only released the source-code, but not the WAD-file. This means that you would have to own the DOOM-cartridge and would have to extract the WAD-file on yourself to be able work with it.


Matthias

[Stone]

Matthias said:

But one of the problems with the Jaguar-DOOM is, that id-software only released the source-code, but not the WAD-file. This means that you would have to own the DOOM-cartridge and would have to extract the WAD-file on yourself to be able work with it.

Well, if you bought the cart you could get it from someone who already dumped it, the same way the various mame/rom sites work.

They go for $10-20 on eBay cart-only if you're really interested enough to help

Stone

[JagChris]

I did a search for WAD on the internet. I came up with things like WOMENS ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT etc. etc. but no WAD in this sense I can easily find. Over the years the only understanding I have of what a WAD file is comes from trying to pull it from the context of discussions I hear or read or seeing stuff about it load up while playing Doom and Heretic. Such as something called 'refresh Daemon'.

Can someone give me the FOR DUMMIES version of what a WAD file is please so I can be fully enlightened instead of having just a (vague) idea?

[Thunderbird]

JagChris said:

I did a search for WAD on the internet. I came up with things like WOMENS ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT etc. etc. but no WAD in this sense  I can easily find. Over the years the only understanding I have of what a WAD file is comes from trying to pull it from the context of discussions I hear or read or seeing stuff about it load up while playing Doom and Heretic. Such as something called 'refresh Daemon'.  

Can someone give me the FOR DUMMIES version of what a WAD file is please so I can be fully enlightened instead of having just a (vague) idea?

The WAD file is all the graphics and monsters and weapons and mazes all in a neat little file format id cooked up for easy use and modification with Doom. The actual Doom "program" is very small. The WAD file is where the content of the game is stored.

If you change a WAD file then you can make new levels and new graphics, etc.

[Matthias]

Hello,


a good starting point to get infos about DOOM and it's WAD-files is:
http://www.gamers.org/dhs/

And a good description about the WAD-fileformat can be found here:
http://www.gamers.or...s/dmsp1666.html

Regards
Matthias

[JagChris]

Thanks T-bird & Mathias!

[jonwil]

You want to look at the functions void W_ReadLump (int lump, void *dest)
and int W_LumpLength (int lump) and void W_Init (void).

Take this file:
http://users.tpgi.co.../jonwil/w_wad.c

Compile it with your favorite windows C++ compiler.
Stick the unmodified jag.wad file from the jaguar doom romdump in the same folder.
And double click on it. It will extract the raw data for all the lumps in the wad file as lump0.lmp, lump1.lmp, lump2.lmp and so on.

[TXG/MNX]

jonwil said:

You want to look at the functions void W_ReadLump (int lump, void *dest)
and int W_LumpLength (int lump) and void W_Init (void).

Take this file:
http://users.tpgi.co.../jonwil/w_wad.c

Compile it with your favorite windows C++ compiler.
Stick the unmodified jag.wad file from the jaguar doom romdump in the same folder.
And double click on it. It will extract the raw data for all the lumps in the wad file as lump0.lmp, lump1.lmp, lump2.lmp and so on.

Very good work keep digging.... into this JAG-WAD...

Hmm will take a look at it tonight. Did you already joined the Jag-DOOM list. http://groups.yahoo....guar-dev-doom/
Please do I think it would be the right place for this info...

Did you only extract or did you already discovered the differences between the PC and JAG version of the WAD?

TXG/MNX

[jonwil]

http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/deutex/
That is the homepage to source code for a doom WAD editor program.
If someone with better C skillz than I was to take that and to add support for the jaguar wad files (including the compression) then that would be a very good thing methinks

[thund3r]

justclaws said:

Hello,

There is now a Yahoo group for Jaguar DOOM source code development.
   http://groups.yahoo....aguar-dev-doom/

JustClaws.

people and there groups....