21 replies to this topic

[MegaManFan]

I know that seems to be a somewhat absurd question on the face of it, let alone if it was presented as a statement. Hear me out though. After a whopping round of Dreamcast goodness this afternoon (including the joy that is Soul Calibur) this idea which had been germinating in my head suddenly sprung forth full bloom. Rather than run down the spiritual and more esoteric reasons I feel the two are kin, let me stick to the brass tacks facts first:

* The most obvious: both come standard with four controller ports.
* Equally obvious: both are outstanding "party" systems for that reason.
* Slightly less obvious: relatively quick loading times for a disc system.
* Some may debate this: impressively well rendered 3-D graphics.
* Software: Soul Calibur on Dreamcast, Soul Calibur II on GameCube.
* Software: Phantasy Star on DC, Phantasy Star I + II on GameCube.
* Software: Sonic games on DC, equal # of Sonic games on GameCube.

But beyond these factual points, there's this uncanny feeling I get when I'm gaming with the Cube that it's the system that picked up where Dreamcast left off, even if Sega hadn't broken rank and started developing software for Nintendo. It's this feeling that the Cube is what the Dreamcast would have evolved into. Smaller disks, better controllers, and on a link cable the GBA is like a highly refined VMU (too bad it can't save the data, or it would be perfect). I can't shake the feeling now, nor would I want to. It gives me a deeper appreciation of each system as a whole. Ten years ago a Nintendo fan would have been shot for thanking Sega for such a great console (or maybe vice versa) but as a life-long die-hard Nintendo fan I still have to the Dreamcast for paving the road that Cube has followed. More to the point, for a system dead now for over a year the Dreamcast can still hang +with+ the Cube or X-Box, and easily rivals the PS2 (which don't get me wrong, I still love too). Maybe the only thing Dreamcast did wrong on 9/9/99 was to be too good, too soon.

[joeybastard]

The DC was much too good too soon and IMHO, is a much better system then any of the current 3.

Having said that, I think your intial statement is flawed. Your making correlations that are more coincidence rather then cause and effect.

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The most obvious: both come standard with four controller ports.

So did the 5200 and it obviously has nothing to do with either system

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Equally obvious: both are outstanding "party" systems for that reason.

That's really just your opinion (which I agree with) and can't be called a fact

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Slightly less obvious: relatively quick loading times for a disc system.

That's just an attempt at making a better product and doesn't link Nintendo and Sega in any way. The better question is why hasn't Sony and MS tried to improve load times?

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Some may debate this: impressively well rendered 3-D graphics.

I would say this is true of all moden systems not just DC an GC

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Software: Soul Calibur on Dreamcast, Soul Calibur II on GameCube.

Isn't SCII also on the Xbox? And even if it isn't, it's like saying there is a link between the Gameboy and the VCS because they both had a version of Yar's Revenge.

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Software: Phantasy Star on DC, Phantasy Star I + II on GameCube.

See Yars Revenge thing from above

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Software: Sonic games on DC, equal # of Sonic games on GameCube.

Sega might believe thepeople who own GCs would be most likely to buy a Sonic game but that doesn't mean any kind of secret "blood" link to the DC

[Ze_ro]

And of course, some of the differences between the two:
[list]Although not doing as well as Nintendo had hoped, the Gamecube is doing better financially than the Dreamcast.
[*]Online support is almost non-existant for the Gamecube, while the Dreamcast had a built-in modem (I wonder if the GC BBA will become as rare as the DC one?)
[*]The Gamecube is centered around a much younger audience than the DC.
[*]Piracy on the Gamecube is not an issue, while it could be argued that piracy was a major factor in the DC's death.
[*]Gamecube incapable of playing audio CD's.
[*]Completely different internally, components for each are from entirely different sources.
[*]Dreamcast was far ahead of it's time, whereas the Gamecube (technologically) rivals the competition.
[*]Memory cards fit in the controller on the DC, in the system on the GC.[list]

And of course, the list goes on and on. Frankly, I'm surprised you didn't point out some of the more appropriate similarities, such as the shape (no, they don't look that much alike... but they're the closest thing to twins since the Jaguar and PC Engine Shuttle.. especially if you use the Sports Dreamcast and the black GC), the fact that first party games were often the best on the system (This has been dogging Nintendo since the N64), and the GBA connectivity is more similar to the NeoGeo Pocket connectivity.

--Zero

[liquid_sky]

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The most obvious: both come standard with four controller ports.

So does the xbox

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Software: Soul Calibur on Dreamcast, Soul Calibur II on GameCube.

and ps2 and xbox

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Slightly less obvious: relatively quick loading times for a disc system.

Compared to what? all the next gen systems are faster than a pc-fx

[Starscream]

joeybastard said:

The DC was much too good too soon and IMHO, is a much better system then any of the current 3.

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Slightly less obvious: relatively quick loading times for a disc system.

That's just an attempt at making a better product and doesn't link Nintendo and Sega in any way. The better question is why hasn't Sony and MS tried to improve load times?

The PS2 and Xbox have media that can store way more than a DC disc or GC disc. More info=longer loads. The longest I wait for any game to load on the Xbox would be Serious Sam - about 15 seconds tops. Most load in under 5 seconds.

[Mock]

Xbox kicks the DC's ass all over the place...the hack-ability of the Xbox is top of the world right now...bar none.

But, for it's time and up until the Xbox...I'd put the DC up against the GC or PS2 any day, and against anything else up to that point...like the PS1...DC was by far the best thing until the Xbox.

Mock

[Brad2600]

I loved the Dreamcast because I had bought one based on how cheap they were in March of 2001. I was foolish enough to sell it though.

I liked the design and the fact that it was better than a PS1.

I might get another one someday. I wouldn't rule out a Gamecube either.

[jsoper]

I remember reading a post a couple years ago that said the XBOX was kinda a DC2
mainly due to having an OS based on
pc architecture.
There was even some very wishful thinking that Microsoft
might install hardware so that Xbox's would be backwards
compatible with DC games, to compete with the PS2 being compatible with PS1. Remember when Sega was talking about marketing their DC technology on a chip?
Too bad it didn't happen that way, XBOX would have started with a huge, great library.

[MegaManFan]

Seems the pendulum swings both ways. I admit, I could have cited more similarities, and I was too eager to overlook some major differences. I still can't shake the feeling though that the Cube is the spiritual heir to the Dreamcast legacy. Even if it weren't for the fact that more and more great Dreamcast games get ported to the Cube (Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Sonic Adventure) I would feel that way just because it's the most "pure fun" modern console. Some people equate that to being "kid oriented." Maybe. Or maybe it just appeals to the kid in me. Either way I know I'd enjoy hosting a Soul Calibur tournament with I running on the left, II running on the right, and let everybody FIGHT!

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BUT THE SOUL STILL BURNS...

[Brian R.]

Comparing the Dreamcast to the GameCube is an insult to the Dreamcast.

And I hardly consider the GC's controllers "better" than the Dreamcast's.

[Tempest]

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And I hardly consider the GC's controllers "better" than the Dreamcast's.

Am I the only one who hates the DC controllers? I find them large, bulky, and the shoulder buttons are very non-responsive. Ick.

Tempest

[KaineMaxwell]

You're not the only one Tempest. They are hard to hold and akward for fighting games.

[Ze_ro]

MegaManFan said:

Even if it weren't for the fact that more and more great Dreamcast games get ported to the Cube (Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Sonic Adventure)

There's still some major ones missing, like Virtua Tennis, Jet Grind Radio, Shenmue, and all their racing games like Daytona or Sega GT. Most of these went to the X-Box instead. Shenmue and Sega GT probably wouldn't be big hits with the younger crowd, but Jet Grind Radio and Virtua Tennis would probably fit in quite well.

--Zero

[JagMX]

liquid_sky said:

Compared to what? all the next gen systems are faster than a pc-fx

not neccessarily
the ps2 takes too damn long
and theres too much loading

i see the xbox as a Dramcast 2

[MegaManFan]

KaineMaxwell said:

You're not the only one Tempest.  They are hard to hold and akward for fighting games.

True indeed. It really hammers your hand after a long session of Soul Calibur. That's why I'm looking forward to II on the Cube so much (not to mention Link as a playable character).

[liquid_sky]

does the GC have an arcade stick style controller?

[MegaManFan]

It has an analog stick on the left and a directional stick on the right that replaces the old "c-pad" buttons of Nintendo 64.

[Mintyfresh]

In my opinion, Out of the 3 modern systems, I Like the GC controller the best. The original X-Box controller was huge as hell and might as well be a doorstop. I know there is the new smaller series, but those dont seem to conform to your hand. The PS controllers have always pissed me off with the 4 shoulder buttons, and for fighting games precision button-mashing is hard to do when you have to mentally keep track of which button is L1,L2,R1, or R2. And All of the damn joysticks..... I think sony should put a few more directional devices on their controllers.... *sarcasm* I know some of you will say "But the GC controller has 2 joysticks", But the truth of the matter is the c-stick is not really used for direction a whole lot. I think overall the GC is a better controller vs. the competition. Oh well, lets see what kind of anger this reply spawns

Nuff Said
Minty

[kisrael]

Mintyfresh said:

In my opinion, Out of the 3 modern systems, I Like the GC controller the best. The original X-Box controller was huge as hell and might as well be a doorstop. I know there is the new smaller series, but those dont seem to conform to your hand. The PS controllers have always pissed me off with the 4 shoulder buttons, and for fighting games precision button-mashing is hard to do when you have to mentally keep track of which button is L1,L2,R1, or R2. And All of the damn joysticks..... I think sony should put a few more directional devices on their controllers.... *sarcasm* I know some of you will say "But the GC controller has 2 joysticks", But the truth of the matter is the c-stick is not really used for direction a whole lot. I think overall the GC is a better controller vs. the competition. Oh well, lets see what kind of anger this reply spawns

Nuff Said
Minty

Ugh, I was with you right until the "Nuff Said" which hardly ever indicates a nice way of talking.

Anyway, I think the biggest difference between the DC and the GC is Nintendo's strength and weakness of its amazing stable. Sony and company just doesn't add up to the legacy Nintendo's history provides. Many many people want to buy into the Nintendo franchise, but sometimes it seems like there's not as much innovation there.

[Clint Thompson]

I never had a problem with the DC's controllers. Now the GC's controllers I was a little uncomfortable with because they feel TOO small and the XBOX controllers are TOO big! Eh, the PS2 feels just right (however many of you may hate me for saying it haha... it's true.

Dreamcast could have had a LOT more life in it... if it weren't for all the
pirating junkies out there. When you just spend 2 years developing a game, release it, and then a week later find someone hacked/cracked it and released it on the net well.... that does discourage you yea?

Anyways...

I love my DC

Clint Thompson

[chrisbid]

i disagree about the piracy stuff, the PSX was the most pirated console of all time, and it didnt suffer in sales

[PuddWakkr]

chrisbid said:

i disagree about the piracy stuff, the PSX was the most pirated console of all time, and it didnt suffer in sales

Thank you. Piracy didn't kill the DC. Sega did. After all their add on upgrade dropped too quick systems consumers lost faith in Sega's commitment to stick with a system ang give it time to compete. I bought my DC right after it came out but I bet most waited long enough to see if Sega would drop it real quick. By the time there were alot of good games out Sega decided to pull the plug. And I don't think of the GC as DC2. Although Nintendo seems to be known for all their innovations the DC was way more ahead of it's time with way more innovations than Nintendo had done. Maybe that contributed to it's downfall as well.