48 replies to this topic

[JB]

Jasoco said:

JB said:

And the backwards disk stuff is 100% bull.  
As in, if you start the system then open the door, you can see the disk spinning the "right" way before it stops.

When you're right, you're correct. I never thought to check, but yes, the GC discs do spin clockwise like other disc based systems.. I forget where I got that info, must have been someone online just spouting what they want to believe.

It's a rather popular story, spouted about every disk-based system since CD-Rs came out.

The reason it's never true: any half-determined pirate could just reverse the wires on their computer CD-ROM/DVD-ROM's motor.

BAM! Instant reverse-spin drive!

It's easier to defeat then the woefully inadequate copy-protection schemes they DO implement.

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Which still raises the question (Which already has an answer, but I wanna say it anyway) why couldn't they have made it standard size and made it read CD's and moves! Then I could have ANOTHER DVD player! And ANOTHER useless CD player I will never use.

Buy a Panasonic Q. It's a 'Cube that also plays DVDs, as well as looking sexier.

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Seriously, I have a DC and Xbox and soon a PSOne with Audio CD capailities, but I don't use it. Know why? MP3's. So I have no use for CD's anymore.

I listened to CDs in the PS for a while, just because my model has the light show thing.
Anyone that wants to give me a JagCD so I can see the original version of the concept, feel free.

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But I'd probably feel a lot better playing my DVD's on my GameCube than my Xbox.

Heh.

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(Too bad the Dreamcast doesn't do DVD's either.)

Yes. Damn Sega for not using a new technology that was too expensive when they made their system.

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Maybe by the next N system, they'll get the point. However useless it may seem, people DO want systems with CD/DVD players in them. Even if the other 5 systems in their Rec Room have them.

My POV: A 50$ settop DVD player works better.

Back when the 'Cube hit, the price diffrence between the 'Cube and PS2 meant you could buy a 'Cube and a game and still have cash left over to get a DVD player, VS buying a PS2 and no game, and having to check your movies against a compatability list.


As of GC launch: PS2 = 300, GC = 150, cheap DVD player = 100
As of now: PS2 = 200(180 if you can find one without a network adapter bundled in), GC = 150 with free game, DVD Player = 50.

The situation is a tad diffrent now, because the PS2's DVD software works better and you get online capability out of the box, whereas the adapter has to be bought seperately for the 'Cube.

DVD compatability is still a non-issue, and in my experience is typically only brandished about by Sony fanboys seeking to bash other systems without resorting to a logical argument.

[Jasoco]

[quote name='"JB"][quote]Which still raises the question (Which already has an answer' date=' but I wanna say it anyway) why couldn't they have made it standard size and made it read CD's and moves! Then I could have ANOTHER DVD player! And ANOTHER useless CD player I will never use. [/quote']
Buy a Panasonic Q. It's a 'Cube that also plays DVDs, as well as looking sexier.[quote]
YOU give me $400 and I will. And no, I won't pay you back. Just give me $400.

[quote][quote]But I'd probably feel a lot better playing my DVD's on my GameCube than my Xbox. [/quote]Heh.[/quote]
And why not?

[quote]Maybe by the next N system, they'll get the point. However useless it may seem, people DO want systems with CD/DVD players in them. Even if the other 5 systems in their Rec Room have them. [/quote]
My POV: A 50$ settop DVD player works better.[/quote]
Now you're thinking like Nintendo. I'm speaking for all the gamers out there who complained about it and you reply with Nintendo-speak.

[quote]The situation is a tad diffrent now, because the PS2's DVD software works better and you get online capability out of the box, whereas the adapter has to be bought seperately for the 'Cube.[/quote]
But who in their right mind would buy a Gamecube for ONLINE play? Leave the Cube to game playing. I have my Xbox for online.

[thund3r]

RMila75 said:

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maybe you could try another board as this is about atari and some1 on a nintendo board may have your answer. Either that or u could open it up yourself

Easy there, Big Time! All modern gaming stuff is open for discussion here.
That's the sort of smart-ass response that will get you a job at Nintendo customer support!

[JB]

Jasoco said:

JB said:

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Which still raises the question (Which already has an answer, but I wanna say it anyway) why couldn't they have made it standard size and made it read CD's and moves! Then I could have ANOTHER DVD player! And ANOTHER useless CD player I will never use.

Buy a Panasonic Q. It's a 'Cube that also plays DVDs, as well as looking sexier.

YOU give me $400 and I will. And no, I won't pay you back. Just give me $400.

If I had 400$, I'D buy a Q.

Actually, I'd save another 50-100 up, and order a modded one form Lik-Sang. All-region DVD, and all -region GC.

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Maybe by the next N system, they'll get the point. However useless it may seem, people DO want systems with CD/DVD players in them. Even if the other 5 systems in their Rec Room have them.

My POV: A 50$ settop DVD player works better.

Now you're thinking like Nintendo. I'm speaking for all the gamers out there who complained about it and you reply with Nintendo-speak.

I'm speaking as someone that saw all the horror stories about PS2 compatability, and is blessed with the ability to do simple arithmetic(even if I can't spell it).

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The situation is a tad diffrent now, because the PS2's DVD software works better and you get online capability out of the box, whereas the adapter has to be bought seperately for the 'Cube.

But who in their right mind would buy a Gamecube for ONLINE play? Leave the Cube to game playing. I have my Xbox for online.

I don't know. That's just the new "problem" with the 'Cube.

[Jasoco]

Actually, I'd kill for a Panasonic Q. They not only look awesome, but um.. look AWESOME!

I love the mirror and blue LED's. I believe there are LED's, right? Behind the clear ring around the controller ports. Anyone know if they all light at the same time or only when a controller's plugged in? That would be neat. And what does the LCD display on the top show? And does it REQUIRE a remote ala Xbox? Or is it optional ala PS2?

[JB]

Jasoco said:

Actually, I'd kill for a Panasonic Q. They not only look awesome, but um.. look AWESOME!

I love the mirror and blue LED's. I believe there are LED's, right? Behind the clear ring around the controller ports. Anyone know if they all light at the same time or only when a controller's plugged in? That would be neat. And what does the LCD display on the top show? And does it REQUIRE a remote ala Xbox? Or is it optional ala PS2?

All 4 controller ports light up all the time.

The LCD is like the front display on your average CD/DVD player

And the remote is packaged in with the Q, but not strictly needed.
It has the standard buttons on the top panel.
Though I suspect the remote is needed to access the special features and such, as menu navigation buttons are lacking(like most stand-alone DVD players).

[kisrael]

JB said:

My POV: A 50$ settop DVD player works better.  

My friend just got a $55 one, though it was an openbox special marked down from 110...Still, I was amazed at how short it was...they finally realized the DVDs don't have to be as tall as old VCRs...

I got a DVD player back in the PSX/N64/DC days. So the fact my PS2 has one is damn near useless, and I regret that it probably bumped up the price of the system. I guess it's nice to have a potential backup, but I haven't had a need for it yet. (Plus I have better outputs from my DVD than I do for the PS2...)

I've had my VCR for almost 10 years now, and I've upgraded to new videogame systems many times since then...that's the dumb part about convergance in technology, different products have different lifecycles, both in the "gadget" factor (like getting new game systems every 3 years but new DVD systems less often) and to a lesser extent in the "what if it breaks" factor.

[Jasoco]

Yes, I love those super sleek thin low-profile DVD players.

[Ze_ro]

JB said:

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(Too bad the Dreamcast doesn't do DVD's either.)

Yes. Damn Sega for not using a new technology that was too expensive when they made their system.

It's not quite DVD's... but there are VCD player programs available for the Dreamcast. I haven't tried any of them myself, and supposedly you have to be careful when making the VCD's so that they will play properly through the program (Too high a bitrate, and the system can't handle it).

I don't really see much advantage to having a DVD player within a console anymore. It was a selling point for a while, but DVD players are so cheap nowadays that I don't think it's an issue. I think Nintendo was smart for leaving out audio-cd and DVD support in order to make the thing simpler and cheaper. I actually often use my JagCD for playing CD's in my room... but that's only because I'm running out of outlets to plug in other CD players

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My POV: A 50$ settop DVD player works better.

I completely agree with this. The Q is pretty nifty... but I'll keep my technology seperate for the time being.

By the way, if you REALLY want an all-in-one solution, your best bet would be to rig up a multimedia PC... stick a nice DVD-Rom drive in there, load MAME and any number of other emulators on the machine as well, and you could probably pack up most of your consoles.

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The situation is a tad diffrent now, because the PS2's DVD software works better and you get online capability out of the box, whereas the adapter has to be bought seperately for the 'Cube.

Well, I highly doubt many people buy a Gamecube for the online support... Am I wrong, or is PSO still the only online Gamecube game?

--Zero

[JB]

Ze_ro said:

I don't really see much advantage to having a DVD player within a console anymore. It was a selling point for a while, but DVD players are so cheap nowadays that I don't think it's an issue. I think Nintendo was smart for leaving out audio-cd and DVD support in order to make the thing simpler and cheaper.

It's not that much simpler.
CD support saved them a laser diode.
DVD support saved them...
Licensing fees, and maybe hardware MPEG support.

I thought it was rather intelligent of Sony to use the license they held and turn "hardware FMV decoding" into "built-in DVD player". I got sick of the fanboys trumpeting it about, but it WAS a smart move on Sony's part. The MPEG decoder was only natural given the increased interest in FMVs after FF7, and since Sony already HAD a DVD player license, it was essentially a free feature.

MS' DVD kit ... I doubt they pay 20$ per unit for their DVD license. And I suspect the DVD player is actually built-in to the OS.
Really woulda been better to build it into the system(not that it would've staved off the Sony fanboys, as they'd've shifted to pointing out that the XBox couldn't play PS1 games, but...).

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The situation is a tad diffrent now, because the PS2's DVD software works better and you get online capability out of the box, whereas the adapter has to be bought seperately for the 'Cube.

Well, I highly doubt many people buy a Gamecube for the online support... Am I wrong, or is PSO still the only online Gamecube game?

--Zero

Well, Mario Kart's gonna support LAN play. But not netplay.

And that's just the new feature trumpeted.
It's "OMG GAY CUBE SUX CUZ IT DONT GOTZ NETPALY N DE PS2 DOEZ!!111111"
Followed by "BULLSHIT! XBOX IZN'T BETTER CUZ XBOX GAMES SUX LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!111111 AN XBOX LIVE SUX 2!1111111"

[Starscream]

JB said:

MS' DVD kit ... I doubt they pay 20$ per unit for their DVD license. And I suspect the DVD player is actually built-in to the OS.  
Really woulda been better to build it into the system(not that it would've staved off the Sony fanboys, as they'd've shifted to pointing out that the XBox couldn't play PS1 games, but...).

From what I understand, MS only has to pay the royalty on the remote kit($30) and that was the only reason the XB cannot play dvd's right outta the box - to save some $$. Oh and the Sony fanboys would be wrong - the Xbox CAN play PS1 games

[JB]

Starscream said:

JB said:

MS' DVD kit ... I doubt they pay 20$ per unit for their DVD license. And I suspect the DVD player is actually built-in to the OS.  
Really woulda been better to build it into the system(not that it would've staved off the Sony fanboys, as they'd've shifted to pointing out that the XBox couldn't play PS1 games, but...).

From what I understand, MS only has to pay the royalty on the remote kit($30) and that was the only reason the XB cannot play dvd's right outta the box - to save some $$. Oh and the Sony fanboys would be wrong - the Xbox CAN play PS1 games

There's an emu out?

Fine then...
Can't play games RELIABLY.

[Starscream]

JB said:

There's an emu out?

Fine then...
Can't play games RELIABLY.

Sort of an EMU, but you can just use the original PS Bios and .bin files so they are actually extremely reliable Maybe even more reliable than my original PS1

[JB]

Starscream said:

JB said:

There's an emu out?

Fine then...
Can't play games RELIABLY.

Sort of an EMU, but you can just use the original PS Bios and .bin files so they are actually extremely reliable Maybe even more reliable than my original PS1

That's an emu. No sort of about it.

And my luck with PS emus has been limited at best. I dislike the things.
1 emu works best most of the time, but I have to switch to another one to get through one part, and neither one works really well.

[Ze_ro]

JB said:

It's not that much simpler.  
CD support saved them a laser diode.  
DVD support saved them...
Licensing fees, and maybe hardware MPEG support.

Every little bit helps. When you're mass producing things, $5 per unit for a laser diode can be significant.

As for online support for the Gamecube, I could care less about it. I've always thought online games were entirely overrated.

--Zero

[Jasoco]

Starscream said:

JB said:

Starscream said:

JB said:

(not that it would've staved off the Sony fanboys, as they'd've shifted to pointing out that the XBox couldn't play PS1 games, but...).

From what I understand, MS only has to pay the royalty on the remote kit($30) and that was the only reason the XB cannot play dvd's right outta the box - to save some $$. Oh and the Sony fanboys would be wrong - the Xbox CAN play PS1 games

There's an emu out?

Sort of an EMU, but you can just use the original PS Bios and .bin files so they are actually extremely reliable Maybe even more reliable than my original PS1

Tell me more. About this PS emulator for Xbox.

[JB]

Ze_ro said:

JB said:

It's not that much simpler.  
CD support saved them a laser diode.  
DVD support saved them...
Licensing fees, and maybe hardware MPEG support.

Every little bit helps. When you're mass producing things, $5 per unit for a laser diode can be significant.

Well, Nintedo sturck a super throwdown deal with Panasonic.
By letting Panasonic make a 'Cube clone, they get the drives much cheaper than if they just bought drives.

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As for online support for the Gamecube, I could care less about it. I've always thought online games were entirely overrated.

Don't get me wrong, I agree.
It's just the new poking fun feature.

I think Warlords is the best multiplayer game ever, and no amount of cabling, graphics, or anything can make up for havng 3 friends crammed into the same space.

[kisrael]

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I think Warlords is the best multiplayer game ever, and no amount of cabling, graphics, or anything can make up for havng 3 friends crammed into the same space.

My only problem with Warlords is that there's something odd about the pixel geometry of the board...it's not quite symmetrical, and one of the players (lower right I think) has this huge advantage, because, unlike the other 3 players, shots right up against its "long flank", i.e. launched from the top player while pressed against the right side of the screen, have this unnverving tendency to bounce around the inside of the castle and then out without ever touching the king.

Still, I'm big on people cramming together. Mario Kart, Monkey Ball 2, Smash Bros, various FPSs, Bomberman...

[Bivotar]

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It's not quite DVD's... but there are VCD player programs available for the Dreamcast. I haven't tried any of them myself, and supposedly you have to be careful when making the VCD's so that they will play properly through the program (Too high a bitrate, and the system can't handle it).

I had a chance to check this out on the Dreamcast. A guy played part of Tomb Raider and a Girls Gone Wild he had made VCD's of. I was far from impressed with the quality, and thought they actually kind of sucked. Not a very interesting option, IMO.

Current DVD players have a lot of options other than playing stock DVD's now. I just picked one up that plays JPEG images from a CD. It's really cool to take some digital camera pics, burn them on a CD, and pop it in the DVD player. I don't think xbox or ps2 support that, do they? A game console that plays DVD's just doesn't have that much appeal to me.

[JB]

kisrael said:

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I think Warlords is the best multiplayer game ever, and no amount of cabling, graphics, or anything can make up for havng 3 friends crammed into the same space.

My only problem with Warlords is that there's something odd about the pixel geometry of the board...it's not quite symmetrical, and one of the players (lower right I think) has this huge advantage, because, unlike the other 3 players, shots right up against its "long flank", i.e. launched from the top player while pressed against the right side of the screen, have this unnverving tendency to bounce around the inside of the castle and then out without ever touching the king.

I think I remember seeing that.

Okay then...
Get Lunar Silver Star Story for the PlayStation, a multitap, some modified controllers(to add paddle knobs), and cram 4 friends around your PS playing the Lords of Lunar minigame.
It's Warlords, only with a Lunar theme(it also supports 8 players, but the gameplay gets really unbalanced when you've got 4 people in corners and 4 in the middle of the wall).

[kisrael]

JB said:

kisrael said:

My only problem with Warlords is that there's something odd about the pixel geometry of the board...it's not quite symmetrical, and one of the players (lower right I think) has this huge advantage,  

I think I remember seeing that.

Okay then...
Get Lunar Silver Star Story for the PlayStation, a multitap, some modified controllers(to add paddle knobs), and cram 4 friends around your PS playing the Lords of Lunar minigame.
It's Warlords, only with a Lunar theme(it also supports 8 players, but the gameplay gets really unbalanced when you've got 4 people in corners and 4 in the middle of the wall).

Heh. Modified controllers w/ Paddle Knobs? Never heard of 'em!

One of the Atari compilations for Dreamcast has a port of the arcade version. (Very confusing to see unless you turn off the background overlay thing) It has two control modes if memory serves, one where pressing left and right moves the paddle that direction, and another one that's faster and truer to rotary controls but tough to control, where certain angles on the stick map to angles of the paddle (i.e. pressing straight up zips your paddle to the top, then starting to sweep the paddle to the side gradually brings the paddle over at the same angle)

Heh, even with the Controller contest I forgot about the one control mechanism really missing from controls: anything rotary. Ideally the tops of the stick could rotate, so something like Ikari Warriors would be possible. I don't know if that would really work though, since you might need to pinch the top of the analog stick between thumb and pointer finger to get it to work right. Just a thought...

[PuddWakkr]

Jasoco said:

Tell me more. About this PS emulator for Xbox.

Very nice EMU. Currently on version 9 I think. Here is the author's homepage. http://xport.xbox-scene.com/ .
He's ported about every EMU you can think of to the Xbox.

[JB]

kisrael said:

JB said:

kisrael said:

My only problem with Warlords is that there's something odd about the pixel geometry of the board...it's not quite symmetrical, and one of the players (lower right I think) has this huge advantage,  

I think I remember seeing that.

Okay then...
Get Lunar Silver Star Story for the PlayStation, a multitap, some modified controllers(to add paddle knobs), and cram 4 friends around your PS playing the Lords of Lunar minigame.
It's Warlords, only with a Lunar theme(it also supports 8 players, but the gameplay gets really unbalanced when you've got 4 people in corners and 4 in the middle of the wall).

Heh. Modified controllers w/ Paddle Knobs? Never heard of 'em!

Because no one made any.

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One of the Atari compilations for Dreamcast has a port of the arcade version.  (Very confusing to see unless you turn off the background overlay thing) It has two control modes if memory serves, one where pressing left and right moves the paddle that direction, and another one that's faster and truer to rotary controls but tough to control, where certain angles on the stick map to angles of the paddle (i.e. pressing straight up zips your paddle to the top, then starting to sweep the paddle to the side gradually brings the paddle over at the same angle)

I've got the PC version.
I actually prefer the overlay/standard mode to the color/cocktail mode.
All those bright colors don't look right. Purple and green castles?

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Heh, even with the Controller contest I forgot about the one control mechanism really missing from controls: anything rotary. Ideally the tops of the stick could rotate, so something like Ikari Warriors would be possible.  I don't know if that would really work though, since you might need to pinch the top of the analog stick between thumb and pointer finger to get it to work right. Just a thought...

It'd be doable, if a tad awkward.


The 5200 sticks spin. There's nothing attached to that axis, or even a provision to make something attach to it, but they DO spin.

A combination stick/spinner knob would've been so incredibly awesome.
...
Especially if they'd finished 5200 Tempest.



As a side note, I prfer the optical rotary sticks to the rotary switch sticks Ikari Warriors used. More fine control that way.

[justice_is_blind]

The pop-up button for the CD. Matsushita's unreleased 3DO M2 system had that. That's what I love so much about Nintendo being partners with them.