47 replies to this topic

[Geeknout]

Need some education on the Sega CD systems.

Theres the 32x- Is this just an adapter that fits in the Genny like the JAG CD?
Isnt there another Sega CD console System beside the 32x ,Saturn and DC?
Are the CD games backwards compatible with all the Sega CD systems?


Or maybe you can just point me to a website?


Also what Sega parts are interchangeable with different Sega systems?
*For example: the Saturn power cord is the same as the DC, right?

[Ze_ro]

Geeknout said:

Theres the 32x- Is this just an adapter that fits in the Genny like the JAG CD?

Yep, plugs into the cartridge port. You need some extra cords to make it work though... specifically, you need a video pass-through cable and a seperate power supply for the 32X (in addition to the Genesis power supply).

Quote

Isnt  there another Sega CD console System beside the 32x ,Saturn and DC?

You mean another system made by Sega? There's only the SegaCD, Saturn, and DC. However, there are a few oddities out there that you might find interesting... JVC made a system called the X'Eye (Wondermega in Japan), which was basically a combined Genesis+SegaCD system. There's also a system made by Sega called the CDX, which was another combined Genesis+SegaCD, except that it's extremely small... only about the size of a discman. There is no screen on it though, so you still have to hook it up to a TV.

Quote

Are the CD games backwards compatible  with all the Sega CD systems?

No. The Saturn can only play Saturn games, and the Dreamcast can only play Dreamcast games.

When it comes to the SegaCD, there are two types of games... normal SegaCD games only need a Genesis and SegaCD to play. There are (very few) games that ALSO require the 32X though. I think there are only three or four of them though (Fahrenheit and Night Trap come to mind... although there is also a version of Night Trap that doesn't need the 32X). SegaCD games that need a 32X will say so on the front of the case.

Quote

Also what Sega parts are interchangeable with different Sega systems?
*For example:  the Saturn power cord is the same as the DC, right?

There are very few interchangable parts... you're right about the Saturn and Dreamcast having the same power cord though... in fact, it's also the same one that the PSX uses (and possibly other systems too, I'm not sure).

The 32X and Genesis use the same power supply, and I've also been able to use that same power supply to power my Game Gear... however, a friend of mine has a Game Gear with a different power adaptor, so I can't guarantee that this will work.

It's also worth pointing out that there are two different models of the Genesis out there. The original Genesis has a volume slider on the front as well as a headphone jack. The later model (The Genesis 2) is not as wide, and has fewer ports on the back. They both use the same power supply, but they have different video ports on the back, so you might want to be careful with cords. There are also two models of the SegaCD, one for each of the two types of Genesis. The tray-loading CD player was meant for the original Genesis and sits underneath it, while the top loading CD player is meant for the Genesis 2 and sits alongside it. I believe that either model of SegaCD can work with either model of the Genesis, although they might look a little odd if they're paired with the opposite SegaCD.

--Zero

[Ze_ro]

I don't mean to sound condescending, but after reading your post again, I'm not sure you know the difference between the 32X and the SegaCD...

The SegaCD is a CD-Rom drive for the Genesis, and plugs into the expansion port on the right hand side of the Genesis system, and I think you need some audio cord as well (although I'm not sure about this). You cannot use the SegaCD without a Genesis.

The 32X is an add-on that Sega made for the Genesis that increases it's power. It allows some pretty decent 3D graphics, and there are decent versions of Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racer, Doom, and some other games. The system wasn't very popular though, and not that many games were made for it. The 32X plugs into the cartridge port of the Genesis, and also requires a pass-through video cable (without this, the games won't be able to display the proper graphics). Like the SegaCD, you can't use the 32X without a Genesis.

You can have both the SegaCD and 32X plugged into the same Genesis, which allows you to play the handful of 32X-CD games out there. Be aware that if you have all these things plugged together, you will need three power supplies (one for the Genesis, one for the 32X and another for the SegaCD). You really don't need either of these add-ons to have fun with the Genesis though... in fact, most of the SegaCD games are crummy FMV games like Sewer Shark that aren't really very fun. The 32X has some decent games, but it doesn't have a lot of power (somewhere between Starfox and Playstation).

--Zero

[JB]

Additions:
There's a Genesis 3 that is incapable of working with the 32x OR SegaCD. It's got a big 3 written on the front, so it's hard to miss.



The SegaCD1 and Genesis 2 physically don't fit each other, so while either system amtes toa SCD2, only an SCD2 mates to a Gen2.


...

As was stated, the 32x is NOT CD-based.

And the SCD and 32x aren't really systems. Just add-ons.





The SegaCD is, IMO, a critical part of the Genesis. If it weren't for some CD titles(Lunar 2, specifically) I wouldn't even OWN a Genesis.


Spec-wise, the 32x is a tad weaker than a Saturn. I would place it about equal to a PlayStation.
Of course, given it came out after Sega'd already put as many developers as possible on the Saturn, support was somewhat lacking. There's not a lot out there for it, and what IS out there is basically all 1st-gen stuff, so no one ever got a chance to push it to the limit.

[Flojomojo]

Dude -- just go to www.gamefaqs.com and read about the different Sega systems. It's all there.

[Geeknout]

"I don't mean to sound condescending, but after reading your post again, I'm not sure you know the difference between the 32X and the SegaCD... "

EXACTLY! I didnt know the difference or what they were. THANKS!

Thanks all for the education and the website



Im going to go hook up my thrift-found Saturn for the first time. I finally got the RF box today!

[JB]

Geeknout said:

"I don't mean to sound condescending, but after reading your post again, I'm not sure you know the difference between the 32X and the SegaCD... "

EXACTLY! I didnt know the difference or what they were. THANKS!

Thanks all for the education and the website
 


Im going to go hook up my thrift-found Saturn for the first time.  I finally got the RF box today!

EWWWW! NOT RF!

[Rockin' Kat]

JB said:

EWWWW! NOT RF!

My sentiments exactly. You should try to track down an A/V cable for the system instead when you get a chance... unless your TV is so old it lacks such hookups. Anyway, I'm fairly certain that the A/V signal is on the same port as the RF signal... at least it is on the Genesis anyway.

[justice_is_blind]

http://nfg.2y.net/ga...afx/segamap.png

[ubersaurus]

Genesis 2 power supply can be used on a game gear or a CDX without any problems. Just so you all know

[Flojomojo]

Does anyone know what kind of AV connector the JVC X-Eye uses? I just got one from Ebay and I think it includes RF only.

[JB]

SuperPsycho said:

JB said:

EWWWW! NOT RF!

My sentiments exactly. You should try to track down an A/V cable for the system instead when you get a chance... unless your TV is so old it lacks such hookups. Anyway, I'm fairly certain that the A/V signal is on the same port as the RF signal... at least it is on the Genesis anyway.

It is.
Unfortunately, the Saturn uses as odd a plug as the Genesis 2 does.

[Jasoco]

You know what would have ROCKED?

If the Dreamcast had the ability to play Saturn AND SegaCD games. And had an add-on to play Genesis and 32x games. It'd be like the KILLER Sega System. And the perfect system to end their run on.

Oh well.

[JB]

Jasoco said:

You know what would have ROCKED?

If the Dreamcast had the ability to play Saturn AND SegaCD games. And had an add-on to play Genesis and 32x games. It'd be like the KILLER Sega System. And the perfect system to end their run on.

Oh well.

Yah.


The Saturn was actually pretty close to Genesis/32x compatability from what I know. It had a 68k built-in, and the SH2s of the 32x were present in the Saturn as well(though at a higher clockspeed).

I assume the AV hardware needed emulating, but there's an SH1 sitting around dormant you can use(officially there as a CD drive controller).


SegaCD... You're short a 68k. The SH1 might have the power to emulate it and the AV hardware, though(the math coprocessor in the SegaCD is often counted as video hardware, due to it's being specialized for 3D effects).

[DracIsBack]

Quote

Spec-wise, the 32x is a tad weaker than a Saturn. I would place it about equal to a PlayStation.

???????????????????????????????

[Jasoco]

JB said:

Jasoco said:

You know what would have ROCKED?

If the Dreamcast had the ability to play Saturn AND SegaCD games. And had an add-on to play Genesis and 32x games. It'd be like the KILLER Sega System. And the perfect system to end their run on.

Oh well.

Yah.

And what would be even BETTER is if they make an NES/SNES/N64 Player for the GameCube that sits between the GC and GBP. Then you'd have the KILLER all in one Nintendo System...

Then Sony can.. oh, never mind.

[JB]

Jasoco said:

JB said:

Jasoco said:

You know what would have ROCKED?

If the Dreamcast had the ability to play Saturn AND SegaCD games. And had an add-on to play Genesis and 32x games. It'd be like the KILLER Sega System. And the perfect system to end their run on.

Oh well.

Yah.

And what would be even BETTER is if they make an NES/SNES/N64 Player for the GameCube that sits between the GC and GBP. Then you'd have the KILLER all in one Nintendo System...

Then Sony can.. oh, never mind.

The SNES actually looks pretty NES-compatible. Everything but the sound hardware is backwards-compatible, and the sound hardware can be programmed to work as a PSG.

It looks like they were originally planning something like Sega's Power Base Converter, and an internal feud at Nintendo killed it.

[Jasoco]

Which is why I SOOOOO want a Super-8!

[PaulEMoz]

Not that they're as good, but I notice that nobody's mentioned that Sega also made the Master System and Game Gear before the Megadrive/Genesis....

[Jasoco]

Well, I thought the Genesis could already play Master System games and Game Gear games in some form? So it'd be a given, wouldn't it? The "Sega Mega Combo System".

[Ze_ro]

You can use the Power Base Converter to play Master System games on a Genesis... but as far as I know, there's no way to play Game Gear games on the Genesis. The video hardware on the Game Gear is slightly different than that of the SMS.

--Zero

[Jasoco]

Well. Game Gear doesn't matter anyway. Still, would have been a nice farewell present from Sega. Maybe a Limited Edition AIO Sega System.

[Gunstar]

DracIsBack said:

Quote

Spec-wise, the 32x is a tad weaker than a Saturn. I would place it about equal to a PlayStation.

???????????????????????????????

almost my thoughts, except I'd have done: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because i own them all and the FACTS are that the 32X is slightly less powerful than the 3DO and Jaguar, which are both slightly less powerful than the Saturn, which is slightly less powerful than the PSX! BUT, all have some good 3D games on them, which is why i own and like them all.

[Ze_ro]

Jasoco said:

Maybe a Limited Edition AIO Sega System.

It would be cool to have, but no company would ever have done that... especially when in the financial trouble that Sega was in. Making stuff backwards compatible is only economically viable when the previous system was very popular, or when the cost of implementing the compatibility is very low.

For example, the PSX was extremely popular, so making the PS2 backwards compatibility made it more likely that previous PSX owners would choose the PS2 over the alternatives. Same story goes for all the Gameboy's out there. Making an adaptor to play Master System games on the Game Gear was economical because the adaptor didn't need any actual components, just enough hardware to swap some pins around. Similarly, the Power Base Converter was economical because all of the SMS abilities were already present in the Genesis, so there was very little hardware cost (although this is somewhat of a grey area, since including this hardware in the Genesis may have increased the cost by a bit...)

On the other side of things, making the Saturn play SegaCD games was completely uneconomical because not only was the SegaCD not very popular (thus, software compatibility is not hugely desired by the public), but the Saturn hardware was sufficiently different that an adaptor would have been quite expensive. The Saturn could have been designed in such a way that compatibility would have been easier (such as including the processors), but that definitely would have made the system more expensive and complicated than it already was, and probably would have held back the power of the system (forcing the system to use a 68000 instead of one of the SH2's would have sucked, for example).

Since the Saturn was also not terribly popular, there wasn't much incentive in making the Dreamcast backwards compatible. Actually doing it might have been easier than making the Saturn backwards compatible, since they're both based on the same family of processors (I might be wrong, but I think the SH4 can actually execute SH2 instructions). Unfortunately, the complexity of the Saturn hardware would likely have made this quite difficult.

However, I still think the Saturn and 32X should have been compatible in some form or another. They were both based on similar hardware, and since they came out close enough to compete with each other, it just made for a marketplace disaster. It would have been nice to see the Saturn able to play 32X cartridges, or possibly even 32X-CD games... I don't know if it would have saved the Saturn from it's fate, but it definitely would have helped the 32X.

Another aspect of backwards compatibility that is often ignored is the possibility of people ignoring the new capabilities of the hardware. Look at what happened with the 7800. The number of 2600's in homes vastly outnumbered the amount of 7800's in homes, so many companies (even Atari) decided that it was more economical to make 2600 games than 7800 games, since they would have a larger audience. People soon realize that they really don't need a 7800 because the majority of the games are playable on the (cheaper, and more easily available) 2600... thus, the 7800 suffers in the marketplace due to competition with it's own predecessor. It can be tricky to avoid situations like this, and the newer system has to be popular enough that you can eventually leave the older one behind. The PS2 and the GBA got it right, probably because both generations of hardware were the dominant system in their categories. Atari might have been able to avoid this by implementing some sort of "slash and burn" policy by stopping 2600 production and focusing entirely on the 7800... but this probably wouldn't have worked either since the 7800 wasn't popular enough, and Atari's influence on it's 3rd party developers was rather poor (and legally murky).

--Zero

[JB]

Jasoco said:

Which is why I SOOOOO want a Super-8!

Teh 3rd-party adapters don't take advantage of this compatibility.

They basically have a full NES inside the box, and offer poor video out too.

Gunstar said:

DracIsBack said:

Quote

Spec-wise, the 32x is a tad weaker than a Saturn. I would place it about equal to a PlayStation.

???????????????????????????????

almost my thoughts, except I'd have done: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because i own them all and the FACTS are that the 32X is slightly less powerful than the 3DO and Jaguar, which are both slightly less powerful than the Saturn, which is slightly less powerful than the PSX! BUT, all have some good 3D games on them, which is why i own and like them all.

The Satrun and PS are about equal.
You're forgetting that as far as America is concerned, the Saturn died really early. A lot of the really good stuff only hit Japan.


Most of the PS's really impressive games were later-gen titles.

At the time of it's release, Grandia was hyped as a game that the PS could NEVER do.
Of course, it was ported a few years later, after the Saturn was dead in America and PS programming had advanced to the point where a port was feasable. But initially it was unportable.

Most americans have never seen the later Saturn games, which push the system every bit as hard as late PS games did Sony's baby.