121 replies to this topic

[Cafeman]

DOOM, but using Simpsons .WAD files.

[Jasoco]

Ah, yes. The days of replacing enemies with funny characters.

If only I could have put some of my schools worst students in the game. Didn't have a camera back then and Digital wasn't mainstream in 1994 yet. (If only I was a Mac user, I could have had an Apple QuickTake. Mmmm... 640x480 pixel goodness!!!)

That would have been fun.

I remember once before I tried my master level, I tried to create an entire city. Knowing damn well that the engine had horrible limits, but I tried anyway. Had maybe 5 or 6 blocks done before it got too big to be stable anymore. But it looked damn good. I even experimented with 8 sided sprites in DeHacked and made street lights and traffic lights that looked different from all angles.

Boy, I miss those days and if I had only kept backups.. dammit! Why didn't I use a FLOPPY!!!???

[Sharky]

Im very against using Sprites, I build using blocks wherever I could. Limitations alright. But results are worth it in the end.

Actors have to be sprites, and using some sprites is essential for smoke effects, explosions, and other minor things they can only be done sprites.

[Jasoco]

Sharky said:

Im very against using Sprites, I build using blocks wherever I could. Limitations alright. But results are worth it in the end.

Actors have to be sprites, and using some sprites is essential for smoke effects, explosions, and other minor things they can only be done sprites.  

I just hated that DOOM's engine couldn't do angled floors and ceilings. Duke made up for it later on, but I was limited in the beginning.

What I wouldn't give to have an OS X Duke Nukem and Build Editor right now.

I'd settle for a DOOM editor for X as long as I had DeHacked and Texture/Music/SFX editing capabilities and the ability to replace everything.

[Sharky]

Im glad I never attempted making Doom maps then.

But I could go back to Ken Silvermans BUILD engine anyday.

There were a few versions of BUILD too, and always best to use the latest one.
The latest BUILD ive got is now called MAPSTER (dont know why they changed the name for.. )

slightly different fixes and changes in them, but Mapster (or latest BUILD) extends your build area (or 2D Grid) so you can now build much larger maps.

[JB]

Ze_ro said:

Quote

But I only had a 386 at the time, Doom was out-of-question, Wolfensten 3D  played nicely, so use to spend endless hours of my time playing shareware games.

Yeah, I remember doing all that too. I spent hours trying to scrounge enough conventional ram to be able to play such memory intensive games as Doom and Ultima 7. I actually went as far as to play Ultima 7:2 without a mouse because I couldn't fit a mouse driver into memory at the time (strangely enough, Ultima 7:1 was small enough that the mouse driver could fit). Doom was almost unplayably slow, but it didn't seem to bother me. I played OMF 2097 for hours despite the fact that the action was as slow as molasses... at least it let me get the timing down

Ah, memories...

--Zero

Is it a bad thing that I'm getting nostalgic for autoexec.bat and config.sys editing?

[Nukey Shay]

I would guess that you didn't take advantage of some other commands that will allow you to save conventional memory, like FCBS=1, LASTDRIVE=D, BUFFERS=15,0...etc. And having startup files load things into the upper memory region (you can see which blocks are free and how much Ram space is unused by using the Dos command mem /c...the /d switch provides a more detailed list, and the /m switch used with the program name details what that program itself uses)

[Ze_ro]

I used to know all the tricks... for a while, I had my startup files set up to bring up a menu so that I could choose individual settings for different games. Sadly, I probably spent more work getting games to work than I actually spent playing them... Ultima 7:2 is almost impossible without a mouse...

Sharky said:

Im glad I never attempted making Doom maps then.

It actually wasn't that bad... at the time, the limitations weren't a huge problem, since you were glad for what you had (Doom seems like paradise after making Wolf3d maps by connecting boxes). There's also some pretty crazy tricks you could do by exploiting the engine... I remember some levels had that invisible bridges and such. For a while I was really into making Doom levels, but the programs I was using were buggy, and would eventually corrupt the wad file Because of that, I don't think I ever actually finished any levels... I just gave up after the file got screwed up.

--Zero

[Sharky]

Ze_ro said:

It actually wasn't that bad... at the time, the limitations weren't a huge problem, since you were glad for what you had (Doom seems like paradise after making Wolf3d maps by connecting boxes). There's also some pretty crazy tricks you could do by exploiting the engine... I remember some levels had that invisible bridges and such. For a while I was really into making Doom levels, but the programs I was using were buggy, and would eventually corrupt the wad file Because of that, I don't think I ever actually finished any levels... I just gave up after the file got screwed up.

--Zero

You shouldnt start any project without making regular backups.

I would say my maps as mymap_1.map, mymap_2.map, mymap_3.map, just in case one map corrupts, then I simply go back to my previously saved map.

A WAD File is just a uncompressed achieve takes lost of files in one, I think

As far as I know Duke 3D didnt need the GRP file after you extracted it, as long as its required files were in the same folder as Duke3D.
You can achieve back into a GRP if you want, but there was no point.

[JB]

Ze_ro said:

I used to know all the tricks... for a while, I had my startup files set up to bring up a menu so that I could choose individual settings for different games. Sadly, I probably spent more work getting games to work than I actually spent playing them... Ultima 7:2 is almost impossible without a mouse...

I never got around to setting up menus.

I'd boot, hold F... 8, I think it was to start up with the bare minimum, then

C:>ren autoexec.bat autoexec.bak.
C:>ren autoexec.bac autoexec.bat
C:>ren config.sys config.bak
C:>ren confic.bac config.sys
*3-finger salute*

Filenames varied a bit, as I never figured out a good naming system.

[Sharky]

Anyone ever played Doom or ROTT in a higher resolution than 320x200 ?

I tried so many tricks to try to play ROTT under 640x480 but ended up in ruining my copy before i succeeded.

[Sharky]

Also a good Front-end for all your great DOS games would be QUIKMENU, that you can configurate to boot during startup.

Not only of its nice Icon/Mouse interference, but it even logs your QuikMenu activities, like what game was played at what time, and how long, etc.

[JB]

Sharky said:

Also a good Front-end for all your great DOS games would be QUIKMENU, that you can configurate to boot during startup.

Not only of its nice Icon/Mouse interference, but it even logs your QuikMenu activities, like what game was played at what time, and how long, etc.

SPYWARE!

[Sharky]

JB said:

Sharky said:

Also a good Front-end for all your great DOS games would be QUIKMENU, that you can configurate to boot during startup.

Not only of its nice Icon/Mouse interference, but it even logs your QuikMenu activities, like what game was played at what time, and how long, etc.

SPYWARE!

It can't be spyware as its got nothing to do with the internet.

You can always turn logging off, but like the way it logs all your DOS activities so you knowing what you did yesterday and the day before and what are you wasting your time on, etc.

The Registered version the one you want, forget the stupid shareware one.

But surely most people use a Menu or somewhat instead of having to type DOS commands just to play the game u want.

[Jasoco]

I don't know about you, but the first time I saw this effect used in DOOM, I realized there was more to the engine than I thought.


Here we have the invisible bridge. The first time I saw it, I thought.. "Well.. how the Hell do I get over THERE?"


Of course, wen I get overt there, I find the really cool floating key.

Later on the effect is used to create transparent doors that you could see through, but not shoot through. That was amazing for its time.. well, not TIME. But for the Engine.

Funny thing is it basically exploited a bug in the way the texturing works. Sorta like how the Minus World in Mario Bros. worked.

Sometimes bugs can be really cool.

[JB]

Sharky said:

But surely most people use a Menu or somewhat instead of having to type DOS commands just to play the game u want.    

Actually, I used the command line most of the time.

When I was really big ona certain game, I slapped together a bat file so I could just type, say TYRIAN and not worry about doing a CDtyrian first.
If was was being imaginative, it'd be T instead of cdtyrian and then tyrian

Wasn't worth the effort a lot of the time.

[Sharky]

Jasoco said:

I don't know about you, but the first time I saw this effect used in DOOM, I realized there was more to the engine than I thought.


Here we have the invisible bridge. The first time I saw it, I thought.. "Well.. how the Hell do I get over THERE?"


Of course, wen I get overt there, I find the really cool floating key.

Later on the effect is used to create transparent doors that you could see through, but not shoot through. That was amazing for its time.. well, not TIME. But for the Engine.

Funny thing is it basically exploited a bug in the way the texturing works. Sorta like how the Minus World in Mario Bros. worked.

Sometimes bugs can be really cool.

Doom Legacy... hmmm dont have that version of Doom (just a DOS and a Win95 Doom, wish they could make a Duke Nukem 3D win95 version.

An invisible bridge?
Not a bad trick, I probably couldnt even do that on DUKE 3D BUILD Engine.

And yes it the Bugs that lets us make good use of them alright.
Its like old computers that can play fantastic modern games by making use its hardware bugs!

Unfortunatlly for Duke 3D not absoluting everything is editable (so you cant 100& make a complete new game out of it).

About 85% of the Code is within the CON Files and MAP Files.
but about 15% is inside the DUKE3D.EXE file, which is unaccessable!

But you can always make it look like a totally new game though (NAM is really a complete rip-off from Duke Nukem, you find that out but looking thru all its art-tiles.

But NAM did some cool things with it though, like realistic helicopters, and sprite airplanes that zoom noisy above you.

[Jasoco]

Doom Legacy is just the OS X port of the Doom engine. It allows me to play DOOM, DOOM 2, Heretic, Hexen and others on my modern OS X iMac. (And you notice the effects it adds to the engine. It's basically using a modified Quake engine for display. That allows for the cool lighting effects. Note the blood and bullet holes in the walls.)

The game is called Plutonia. It is part of the Final DOOM two pack. It was a two game pack made by id Software. The two games were completely edited versions of DOOM II. Like two completely new episodes.

Which begs the question, shouldn't THEY have been DOOM 3 and DOOM 4? And where does DOOM 64 come in? Those are three completely new DOOM games, yet they don't fall into the whole numbering scheme.

[Sharky]

I noticed something old in first screenshot, they the candle lights or something have some sort of corena effect to them making them more real looking... and that 3D technogoly wasnt around when DOOM first game out.

So maybe it is DOOM with the Quake Engine.

Ill can remember editing some DOOM maps using the BUILD engine for 3D, and afterwards as much the same as I made it, you could play DOOM and also look up and down too.

[Jasoco]

Sharky said:

I noticed something old in first screenshot, they the candle lights or something have some sort of corena effect to them making them more real looking... and that 3D technogoly wasnt around when DOOM first game out.

So maybe it is DOOM with the Quake Engine.

Ill can remember editing some DOOM maps using the BUILD engine for 3D, and afterwards as much the same as I made it, you could play DOOM and also look up and down too.  

That is what I said. That is DOOMLegacy. It is a Quake-type port of te DOOM engine that allows DOOM hackers to A) Play DOOM on their modern computers or computers they were never ported to and B) In some circumstances, make levels do stuff that you couldn't do before with the original DOOM.

The Corona is there because it IS using Quake source code. It is a really cool port. And is available for most Operating Systems. Mac OS X, Linux, Windows...

In fact, some people have created plug-ins for it to allow the game to substitute flat 2D Sprites with newly designed and built 3D models. I haven't gotten them to work yet, but I've seen screenshots. They are excellent looking.

Click this Link to see some stuff never seen in DOOM II before.
http://legacy.newdoo...m/gallery.shtml

[Ze_ro]

I don't think Doom Legacy takes anything from the Quake source code... they just implemented some Quake-like effects like rocket trails and such. Doom Legacy also removes some restraints, and adds a few features... for example, you can have friction effects on floors, or have them move so that you can do things like conveyor belts, deep swamp, or windy areas that push you around. They also did some stuff where you could go underwater I think, there's support for 3D models for enemies and items, more deathmatch features, much better lighting, transparency and fog effects. However, the inherent restrictions are still there... you can't have room-over-room, and I don't think you can do sloped floors either.

There are similar projects for Quake as well, where they try to remove restrictions (although Quake has very few restrictions anyways), and add features. Check out QuakeForge. They've merged all the different Quake code bases (Quake, GLQuake, & QuakeWorld), and added some graphical effects like much improved smoke and blood effects. And of course, Tenebrae Quake is always popular.

--Zero

[Jasoco]

I heard it was partially Quake. At least from the Legacy Team.

Oh, and:

You can have room over room in Legacy. Note you can also have semi transparent floors too.