44 replies to this topic

[Jasoco]

[quote=Ze_ro][quote=joeybastard][quote=Chris++]Someday I will have a Mac. Speaking of which, it's time to write up a request for another raise.

I've heard (many times, now) the sound quality you've gotten via recording with a Mac. There's no way I'm sticking to PCs once I can afford Apple's box. (And then I'll be comin' to you for advice!)[/quote]

I've recorded on both platforms and never seen a difference in sound quality if the conditions of the recording are the same. Same mics, same sampling rate, sound cards of similar capabilites etc. I'm not trying to deter you in anyway from getting a Mac, just that it may not be the solution to your problem.[/quote]
It's not the sound quality that's the deciding factor. It's the experience you get while trying to create the sound. Macs are inherently easier to use and friendlier than Windows will EVER be.

The Mac OS doesn't spit in your face and tell you "Oh, don't worry. It's supposed to do that. Now get on all fours and install the five new security updates I just put out yesterday.

But of course, this is no place for a Mac vs. Windows debate. And I'm not up to arguing.

[joeybastard]

Jasoco said:

It's not the sound quality that's the deciding factor. It's the experience you get while trying to create the sound. Macs are inherently easier to use and friendlier than Windows will EVER be.

But of course, this is no place for a Mac vs. Windows debate. And I'm not up to arguing.

If you're not up to arguing I wouldn't make personal opinions sound so much like facts. I use both platforms all day for various multimedia projects and find Windows easier. Even so, I mentioned not trying to dissuade a Mac sale. Chris mentioned sound quality and they are the same, that is fact. What you state is opinion, not fact.

[Jasoco]

LOL. Sorry! My Zealot has been trying to come back since I saw the new 15" Powerbook's yesterday. It'll probably make an appearance once in a while. So be on the lookout.

[devils advocate]

joeybastard said:

Chris++ said:

Someday I will have a Mac. Speaking of which, it's time to write up a request for another raise.

I've heard (many times, now) the sound quality you've gotten via recording with a Mac. There's no way I'm sticking to PCs once I can afford Apple's box. (And then I'll be comin' to you for advice!)

I've recorded on both platforms and never seen a difference in sound quality if the conditions of the recording are the same. Same mics, same sampling rate, sound cards of similar capabilites etc. I'm not trying to deter you in anyway from getting a Mac, just that it may not be the solution to your problem.

I agree. Most of the work I've heard from home recordings, where the user complains of "poor sound quality", is actually user induced.
I see lots of people spend thousands on their DAW, and then buy one SM57 Mic, to record with. Well, that's great if you want to record a mono guitar etc. But a good vocal mic like a AKG 414 will set you back the same as the DAW.
Most people can't use compressors well either. Or use a 200 dollar Alesis, and think it will work well. Or. own 1 unit thinking it can handle all the duties.
If you use mainly outboard gear, there really is no difference between platforms. Or, not as much difference as the actual user makes!

[joeybastard]

Jasoco said:

LOL. Sorry! My Zealot has been trying to come back since I saw the new 15" Powerbook's yesterday. It'll probably make an appearance once in a while. So be on the lookout.

No sweat, I get that way too sometimes. I almost got into a fistfight with a guy in the bookstore over that Rolling Stone article on best guitarists of all time. He had the balls to say something bad about Johnny Ramone and I went nuts. My wife had to drag me out of the store. I still want to punch that guy

[Jasoco]

joeybastard said:

Jasoco said:

LOL. Sorry! My Zealot has been trying to come back since I saw the new 15" Powerbook's yesterday. It'll probably make an appearance once in a while. So be on the lookout.

No sweat, I get that way too sometimes. I almost got into a fistfight with a guy in the bookstore over that Rolling Stone article on best guitarists of all time. He had the balls to say something bad about Johnny Ramone and I went nuts. My wife had to drag me out of the store. I still want to punch that guy

LOL! I can see that. I get in fights about which Pizza Franchise is better and what music is better all the time.

"WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT PAPA JOHN'S BEING BETTER THAN PIZZA HUT? I'LL KICK YOUR A....."

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN TODAYS RAP IS BETTER THAN BILLY JOEL?? WHY YOU LITTLE MOTHER..."

Ok.. not THAT extreme..

[NE146]

I've ALWAYS been about getting the Modern consoles. Of course the 2600, NES, & PSX (etc.) were all at one point, "Modern" consoles and that's the context where I acquired all of them. So why should I change now and eschew the latest batch of consoles? That's just not how I've always been.

Videogames have always been about the new and the latest and greatest. We just happen to be a certain type who doesn't abandon the ones that have aged for a while

[desiv]

Ze_ro mentioned Grand Theft Auto being a good example of a creative game..

OK...

You are told to get a dot (car) and avoid other dots (Police) and bring it to a safe spot (a bigger dot).

I'll avoid the Pacman comparisons there....

Let's say, instead of a bad guy, you are an explorer.
And instead of a city, your in a pyramid.
And instead of stealing a car, you need to steal a key...

Hey, I was playing that last nite. It's called Lost Tomb!! :-)

(I can do this over and over again with different replacements.. It's not a very creative game...)

IMHO

desiv

[z28in82]

MegaManFan said:

chrisbid said:

The release of the N64 was the defining moment of the "new school" with its analog controller.  Sony and Sega soon followed suit with their own analog pads, and 3D gaming had busted all the way through.

That's something that's always irked me - N64 gets ragged on for being cartridge based, limited, behind the times and all that - but then you look at the N64 controllers with their analog sticks, rumble packs, memory slots and transfer packs not to mention an ergonomically pleasing design and I'd say they were AHEAD of the curve. Dreamcast took the formula and improved on it, although the controllers aren't as ergonomically pleasing.

Steve normally I agree with ya completely but here I have to disagree. The N64 was a big POS in every way in my opinion.

Cart vs. CD - cost nintendo countless supports due to the smae game being 10-20 bucks more as opposed to the price on PSX/Saturn/DC

Controller - While big N may have brought the first analog stick out, to me it was nothing more than an old 2600 controller with many more and confusing buttons. Actually I think the 2600 controllers were more acurate and useful than the N64s

Rumble paks - I bought mine and never touched that damn thing cause I didn't wanna have to keep puttin batteries into the thing, sorry sony did it better with the dual shock feedbacks

Memory slots - once again nothing too spectaular there IMO plus they were over priced and my generic replacement worked just as well as the official Nintendo memory thingy (not sure what they were called) and with it being in the controller as opposed to the system just made it more of a PITA when playing games with friends. PS1 memory cards were a much better design and haven't lost one of them to this day.

transfer packs - I'm assuming you mean the RAM upgrade, what a bunch of horse shit. I pay for the system and then you tell me I have to buy addition RAM to play certian games cause there wasn't enough built into the system, if the RAM packs were a mail in giveaway I woulda felt better about that

And yes I think the DC was a great step up over the N64 controller but I still think the PS1/2 controller ranks best overall

[NE146]

z28in82 said:

I still think the PS1/2 controller ranks best overall

You know it's funny because the majority of people out there say that, but I've never liked them I don't like the recessed D-Pad (too hard to do rotational SF2 style moves) and the R1/R2/L1/L2 buttons are placed where I'm constantly accidentally hitting them or hitting the wrong one when trying to press them But I guess I'm in the minority

To me though the best pad was the old ASCII pads for the SNES

[Jasoco]

I've been holding it in but I need to say it.

Next to the small collection of 2600 games on my shelf, I hate to think of it like this, but I think of my N64 collection as the dead weight. I just don't have the enthusiasm for the N64 as I did when it was actually out. I find I would rather play an NES, SNES or GameCube game before I play an N64 game. With the exception of Mario 64 and maybe Perfect Dark. But I'll play Mario before it because it's more fun. Other than that, my games are ones requiring a lot of time. Banjo, GoldenEye, PD. All need a lot of time spend on them. I'd rather just play. And I don't know why, but I really don't want to collect for it yet. So the small collection I have will stay the same size for a while.

Edit: And to reply to what was just posted...

The PS1/2 controllers are THE WORST I have ever used. Period. Fuck them. They can go to hell and melt. Period. Exclamation point.

[z28in82]

I will admit that the D pad on a dual shock could be a lil more raised but the shoulder buttons were perfect for me? I dunno maybe I'm the minority but I love my dual shock and nothing else feels quite right in my hands anymore (SNES/DC are close seconds thought)

I miss my old SNES controllers as well, I logged 1,000's of hours with one of them in my hands playing EA sports damn addicting NHL series on top of the great collection of SNES games.

[Chris++]

I love the PS2 controller as well. Maybe you need strong fingers to be comfortable with it. Whatever the reason, it's much better (for me) than the N-64 controller, with its goofy trigger-grip and that tiny thumb-stick.

The best controllers for any system so far are the 2600, Bally and Jaguar ones, and I think I like the PS2 controller in part because it reminds me a little of the Jag grip.

[joeybastard]

I have always found the N64's controllers to be the most comfortable for my hands. I wish my GC used the same controllers. The PS2 are OK but I have the same complaints about the shoulder buttons and recessed pad.

Actually I still say Atari paddles are the most perfect controller ever created.

[Redcurrie]

I have acquired a number of systems including all 3 Ataris, an INTV, an NES, a SNES, a N64 and a Sega Genesis. The main reason that I have none of the modern consoles is two-fold. First, I don't have time (or the inclination) to learn to use a 400-button controller. Second, none of the games really interest me.

I love puzzle games so the Nintendo series is great for me. I will admit that the N64 is sitting in a box because I haven't gotten any puzzle games for it yet. I also like the shooting games for the NES.

My love for Atari is also two-fold. The first reason that I love it is I have many happy memories of playing it as a kid. The second is that there is a certain beauty to the simplicity of the games. Time was spent contriving things that were different and because of the limitations, the differences couldn't be making a game with no play value but awesome movie-like graphics. You weren't going to be wowed by graphics; you were going to be wowed by a good, different game. (Thus explaining my love for Activision games.)

Anyway, enough of the saopbox

[raindog]

Just playing catchup on the thread...

icbrkr said:

Now when the GC, PS2 and XBox are $99 or less, I'll get one.

Well, the Gamecube's list price is now $99, so there you go

Sharky said:

Interesting, how can any modern console match the magic of a Voodoo 3D Card with zooming sharp 3D effects that you almost feel like you could touch.

Our two main machines here both have Voodoo 3D cards in them, the very last model they produced, bought like a week before they announced Nvidia was buying them and the prices dropped. Anyway, most games won't even run for us anymore; the Voodoo 3 is about PSOne level I think (well, it has 16MB of texture RAM or whatever, but it can't push polygons too fast, no FSAA, shading is coarse...) My 2.9lb Dell laptop, which I definitely did NOT buy as a gaming machine, has significantly better video performance and needless to say, the Gamecube blows them both away.

Now, I know I could go out and spend a couple hundred bucks and buy a video card that wipes the floor with the Gamecube/PS2/Xbox, assuming I can find PC games that'd take advantage of that and which I'd wanna play. Thing is, I've (re-)discovered since buying the Gamecube that I enjoy playing games while sitting on the couch in front of a TV FAR more than sitting in my office playing them. If I ever get into PC games again, it'll be because I bought my house and finally bought that Hanaho Arcade PC to play MAME on And of course, the GC as noted above costs half as much as that bitchin' video card would cost by itself.

[Ze_ro]

Redcurrie said:

First, I don't have time (or the inclination) to learn to use a 400-button controller.

What? How is it that hard to learn how to use a Gamecube controller when you said you already have an INTV? If it's confusing to control a game, it's not because of the control, but because the game was apparently written poorly. After getting through the first level of a game, you shouldn't have any trouble with the controls.

Quote

I love puzzle games so the Nintendo series is great for me.  I will admit that the N64 is sitting in a box because I haven't gotten any puzzle games for it yet.

Yeah, there aren't many puzzle games for consoles these days. I remember hearing that Nintendo was bringing out a Gamecube game that was essentially "Tetris & Dr. Mario", except with 3 or 4 games in it. I can't remember what they were going to call it, or when it was supposed to come out (it was quite a while ago that I heard about it... maybe it was cancelled? Anyone have any information?).

There's also Dr. Mario 64 on the N64... although the only real advantage of it is that you can play 4-player. Tetrisphere looks like a pretty fun game too (I haven't tried it myself yet).

You might be interested in getting a Gameboy Advance though... puzzle games seem to be showing up on there more often than the consoles. You'd probably like Wario Ware.

--Zero

[raindog]

Ze_ro said:

How is it that hard to learn how to use a Gamecube controller when you said you already have an INTV?

I don't know whether you ever played an INTV back in the day, but all games came with little plastic overlays that went over the INTV keypads and provided you with a little cheat sheet of what the buttons did, including the side buttons.

I don't know how you could really implement that nowadays without making it really inconvenient, but I know when I was playing the Rebel Strike preview I kept going, "Crap, is this button mouselook or drop bomb?" It took me about 10 shines in Mario Sunshine to figure out all the controls for that game, and there are still combos I don't know how to do. That goes double for Crazy Taxi, and I think there are things I can't do yet in Super Monkey Ball, which ONLY uses the analog stick.

So, in summary: no overlays, and a vastly increased reliance on chording and quick sequences, make the GC's sticks with 11 controls more complicated than the INTV's pads with 17.

[icbrkr]

raindog said:

Just playing catchup on the thread...

icbrkr said:

Now when the GC, PS2 and XBox are $99 or less, I'll get one.

Well, the Gamecube's list price is now $99, so there you go

Yep.. and guess what's on my want list now? Hmm... it's my Bday today.. and there's a Gamecube sized box in wrapping.. I wonder... ?

Brian

[Redcurrie]

"You might be interested in getting a Gameboy Advance though... puzzle games seem to be showing up on there more often than the consoles. You'd probably like Wario Ware. "

I have one and have spent quite a number of hours on planes and in airports wrapped up in it. I have actually found some of the older GB and GBC games to be great. Kwirk is a good example. The most riveting by far (and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit) is Pokemon Puzzle Challenge. It really has nothing to do with Pokemon but is really a wicked cross between Tetris and Columns IMHO. Thanks to a fellow AtariAge Member, I now have Tetris Blast which I can tell will be equally addictive. Best part is I can play it on the SGB for the SNES........ :wink: