65 replies to this topic

[Spector]

There's no point asking Vectrex fans what they thought about the machine, because they'll say it was great, so I thought I would ask the knowledgable crowd that are on here.
So, what was your opinion on the unusual portable vector-graphics based system? Was is an interesting commercial failure, or do you consider it a total bomb, both in the hardware and software?

[CPUWIZ]

I like the Vectrex, it was a very unusual machine and some of the games are pretty good.

This does belong into the classic gaming forum though.

[JB]

Spector said:

There's no point asking Vectrex fans what they thought about the machine, because they'll say it was great, so I thought I would ask the knowledgable crowd that are on here.  
So, what was your opinion on the unusual portable vector-graphics based system? Was is an interesting commercial failure, or do you consider it a total bomb, both in the hardware and software?

Brief question: is there anyone that's ever played a Vectrex that ISN'T a fan of it?
I've impressed modern and oldschool gamers alike by firing up my Vectrex.

The only bad things I've ever heard about it were by whoever wrote the game reviews in DVE.
But he doesn't count because he thinks everything from Rip-Off to Star Castle to Cosmic Chasm is an Asteroids knock-off.




I do admit that I'm a drooling psychotic fanboy, but I believe the Vectrex was a great system that was launched at the wrong time.


MineStorm is an Asteroids knockoff that equals, and in some respects exceeds, it's parent. Yes, I just said it's an Asteroids clone that's better than Asteroids.

Cosmic Chasm was good enough to go from home to arcade instead of vice versa(the first such translation).

There is simply no other way to play the Cinematronics games that were ported. The Vectrex was the only system that could do them justice at the time, and untill someone hooks a vector screen up to a PC and writes an emulator to use it, it's still the best way to play them without buying the arcade machines.

...

Pity Atari didn't support it. Seeing some Atari vector games on it would've been awesome. Not to say that VCS Tempest was a bad idea or anything, but... Ah, screw it. VCS Tempest WAS a bad idea. I'm just glad it got cancelled.

And on a sadder note, Vectrex Star Trek is NOT a port of the Sega arcade game. It's not even a particularly good game in it's own right.

[joeybastard]

Vectrex is unbelievably kick ass. I love that thing to death and wish I had one. When I was a kid my friend had it and like every game so I used to play it constantly. It's a pity he turned crazy and I lost track of that guy, I bet it's still in his parents basement.


I play it emulated but it's just not the same

[oesii]

Everything about the Vectrex is cool, you can't beat a system with it's own monitor. Minestorm, Star Castle, and RipOff are spot-on arcade games that are easy to get into. One of my favorite things about the Vectrex is the active homebrew scene, John D. has made some fun games and I also got a Genesis pad converted for Vectrex use from him (everything he sells is reasonable):

http://www.classicgamecreations.com/

[ScottHuggins]

I got a vectrex without ever playing one before off ebay about 1 month ago. It came with two controllers and about 5 games (I did pay a hefty price for it).

Man, it's the best classic system, IMHO. The game play on Space Wars (two player), Mine Storm, Armour Attack, etc is unbeatable. The system just has a good 'feel' to it. That's the best I can describe it as.

Also, check out the Protector homebrew. This might be the best game ever for Vectrex. Watch the little sample movie at the url below.

http://www.herbs64.com/

[MrRetroGamer]

I also really like the Vectrex for the reasons mentioned. This is a fun classic system that should not be overlooked. The availability of some great original vector games and the quality homebrews make this an awesome system to play. To see what one guy did with his release of Protector (Defender clone) on a vector monitor will BLOW YOU AWAY. A readily available multicart makes it easy to enjoy almost all the original games.

As not the biggest fan of the standard controller, I recently picked up a converted arcade style joystick for this system. Really helps out some of the scores!

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[2600Lives]

Well, I personally think it was a great idea that suffered from poor foresight and execution. I mean, if something happens to the damn built in monitor, POOF, you gotta go get a new system. If my tv breaks, I don't have to go get another 2600 or NES. I really dislike integrated stuff like that. Anyhoo, it IS quite fun to play, and since I do own one, I can brag! Nyah, nyah!

P.S. I'll be bringing it to OKGE so I can brag even more! Nyah, nyah!

[MegaManFan]

It's the Caddy of classics.

[desiv]

Spector said:

There's no point asking Vectrex fans what they thought about the machine, because they'll say it was great, so I thought I would ask the knowledgable crowd that are on here.  
So, what was your opinion on the unusual portable vector-graphics based system? Was is an interesting commercial failure, or do you consider it a total bomb, both in the hardware and software?

Hmmm.. So if I've seen it and like it, I'm a fan and you're not asking me.

(Which I have and I am and I DO think it's great!!!)

So, you're looking for opinions from people who haven't seen it, or have seen it and don't like it?????

hmmmm

:-) :-)

I saw it "back in the day" and loved it, but couldn't afford it. Finally got mine last year, and it's my favorite console to play. It also gets the best reactions from visitors. I think people either wanted one, but never got one.. or they hadn't seen it, but think it's very kual!!!

I have yet to meet someone who looked at it and thought it was dumb.
(That has happened with my Odyssey II tho :-( But that person thought the Veccy was kual at least.. I think they didn't like how big and "clunky" the O2 looked. But back then, it looked sweet!!! Weird, but oh well..)

desiv

[jsoper]

I picked up a Vectrex with multicart last month at the CGE auction and became a instant fan. It has the ability to impress gamers and nongamers alike.
Still trying to find the best way to make my own overlays, the white backing is the problem.

[sku_u]

I have a Vectrex coming my way along with a multicart from another source that will make up for the one my mother trashed that I had as a kid. Hopefully this one will actually work since the last one I acquired burned out within a month of getting it.

My only complaint about the Vectrex is that there was no way to hook it up to a TV if you wanted to play it on a bigger screen to the best of my recollection. Otherwise, as a big fan of Vector graphics, I have to say I love the Vectrex.

[Ze_ro]

sku_u said:

My only complaint about the Vectrex is that there was no way to hook it up to a TV

Unfortunately, that's completely impossible... vector displays and raster displays (such as your TV) are completely incompatible. However, you could probably salvage a nice big Wells Gardner vector display from an arcade machine and splice it into the Vectrex.

I've always thought the Vectrex was like the holy grail of the 80's. It's hard to find, and it's completely unique (Virtual Boy is the only thing that even comes close). The games that came out for it always seemed a little simple to me, and I always felt that the machine never really got pushed as hard as it could have... I've seen that Protector video though, and it's simply amazing. If only stuff like that had come out in the 80's! I think timing was the major problem for the machine though... it was released almost right before the crash, so it never really had a chance. Did you know that at one point they were considering making a handheld vectrex? How cool would that have been!

By the way, there is an emulator known as ZVG that is supposedly able to control vector monitors. What this means is that you can take your Vectrex (or any vector arcade monitor, if you have), hook it up to your PC, and play any vector game you want on it. Imagine playing Star Wars or Black Widow on your Vectrex! I was reading up on it before, and you can do it without destroying your Vectrex too. All you have to do is unscrew the back, and disconnect the wire harness so that you can connect the PC->Vectrex wiring harness. It's completely reversible without any damage. I haven't tried it myself though... I don't think I could ever bring myself to open up my Vectrex unless it completely died on me.

--Zero

[Spector]

CPUWIZ said:

I like the Vectrex, it was a very unusual machine and some of the games are pretty good.    

This does belong into the classic gaming forum though.  

Oops a daisy!

Reading the comments here and from what I've read elsewhere, I'd really like to get one, but like many others, my wallet isn't fat enough at the moment. Getting the colour transparencies seems to be a hassle too, though it's probably not essential to most gams, is it?
Also, for those of you who have played the games on the actual machine, how does Pole Position fare? Good or bad?

[JB]

2600Lives said:

Well, I personally think it was a great idea that suffered from poor foresight and execution. I mean, if something happens to the damn built in monitor, POOF, you gotta go get a new system. If my tv breaks, I don't have to go get another 2600 or NES. I really dislike integrated stuff like that. Anyhoo, it IS quite fun to play, and since I do own one, I can brag! Nyah, nyah!

P.S. I'll be bringing it to OKGE so I can brag even more! Nyah, nyah!

If it could hook to a TV, it wouldn't be a Vectrex.



Anyways, it's built like a tank. Mine was knocked off a table onto a floor a long time ago. The brightness knob is MIA, but the system still works perfectly. Well, aside from the classic Vectrex sound buzz and a well worn volume knob that doesn't work in some positions(as in, the comfortable volume range).

[Jasoco]

Ok. I've been wondering this for a while now.

How does a Vector Monitor work? What does it look like in action? How does it differ from a regular monitor? Are there still pixels? What's the dilly-o?

[liquid_sky]

http://www.mameworld...a/monitor3.html

afaik, vector monites cannot support raster effects

[Jasoco]

liquid_sky said:

http://www.mameworld...a/monitor3.html

afaik, vector monites cannot support raster effects

Ah... Now I get it!

No wonder that Vector Asteroids game I saw demoed on TNT Amusements Infomercial looked so cool.

I really would like to get my hands on a Vectrex one day. Or at least try one out in person.

Anyone have videos of one in action?

[JB]

liquid_sky said:

http://www.mameworld...a/monitor3.html

afaik, vector monites cannot support raster effects

Actually, the Vectrex "raster'ed" it's text. Hence the classic lined look.

Like this:

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Instead of 1. Apparenntly it was more efficient than drawing out individual characters to raster-ize it.
(edit: Damn the dropping of extra whitespace!)



And regaridng your link...

Quote

The main reason for it was economic -
High resolution 'raster' displays could not be made cheaply

So ,instead, pass the monitor a collection of lines, which would govern the movement of the monitor's
electron gun(s),rather than forcing the monitor to use a high horizontal scanrate so it could fit all
the 'hires' lines into one display cycle
It's like the difference between a normal printer and a printer plotter

Vector monitors were troublesome (with cases of a certain manufacture's vector monitors actually catching fire)
and they fell out of favour as it became economic to produce medium or hires raster monitors

This is incredibly, horribly wrong.

Raster displays used then were the same as raster displays used now: Standard TV tubes.

Vector screens were used because processors weren't fast enough to draw an entire screen AND keep track of much game action.
Since a vector game's processor only had to track a few points, and the screen generated the image, games could be much more complex and feature awesome graphical effects like "zooming" and rotation.

High-res displays never entered the equation, as a game's processor couldn't evemn utilize a standard display to it's fullest, much less a high-res one.


Vector displays are NOT inherently more unstable than raster ones.
The vast majority of components melting and catching fire are from horrible horrible abuses of the hardware(Tempest is one of the best known cases, as it often tries to draw very large portions outside the screen, severly overtaxing the monitor hardware and often killing it outright). If you abuse hardware, it fails. Simple fact of life. No one holds raster screens responsible for the burned in "game over"(which happens on vector screens too, but that's another story).



They fell out of favor because processors caught up with raster screens, and the vector screen became a liability instead of an asset.

The way a vector screen works has one nasty drawback: the time to draw an image varies directly with complexity.
As more objects are put on screen(or just more detailed objects), draw time goes up.

Eventually, draw time exceeds frame time, causing slowdown and(when draw time exceeds phospher persistance) really bad flicker.
See Berzerk on the Vectrex for a brutal example of the problem.

[Jasoco]

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[holygrailvideogames.com]

The price of the Vectrex system has really come down the last couple of years. I owned one back in 1984 and had every game. Later on my system was destroyed when a basement flooded. In 2000 I decided to buy another system. I paid over $100 before shipping. Now you can often find systems for $50-$80 loose. The cartridges for the most part are pretty inexpensive. Now if you decide to buy complete games including a mint box, you will pay a hefty premium. I love the system. It might not be my favorite, but it is the only non-portable, that doesn't tie up my TV. I just wish that I could have all of the overlays.

[Pipster]

It's one of the few things i've found at a car boot sale (yard sale?) in the UK, 20 pounds and fully working.

[sku_u]

I think I finally understand the differences between vector and rastor screens. But one question still remains:

How did Sony port Black Widow, Asteriods, Tempest, et. al. over to the Playstation systems, then?

[Jasoco]

sku_u said:

I think I finally understand the differences between vector and rastor screens.  But one question still remains:

How did Sony port Black Widow, Asteriods, Tempest, et. al. over to the Playstation systems, then?

Well, it's not hard to port the game. It just doesn't look as good unless they use some special effects to make it appear like it's on a Vector monitor.

From what I understand, a Vector Monitor only draws the lines and doesn't even bother with the black area like a normal monitor would do. And the reason some vector games look so good is because of the after effect that the phosphors create. I'd like to see this in action other than that TNT Amusements clip. It's a neat effect and something that other monitors can't pull off.

[JB]

Jasoco said:

sku_u said:

I think I finally understand the differences between vector and rastor screens.  But one question still remains:

How did Sony port Black Widow, Asteriods, Tempest, et. al. over to the Playstation systems, then?

Well, it's not hard to port the game. It just doesn't look as good unless they use some special effects to make it appear like it's on a Vector monitor.

Right.
They actually emulate the video screen.
...
Ironically, the very display technoligy that enabled them to do suo much with relatively little hardware makes vector games obscenely power-hungry when you emulate them.


And really, it's physically impossible for a raster screen to generate a vector image "properly."

Quote

From what I understand, a Vector Monitor only draws the lines and doesn't even bother with the black area like a normal monitor would do.

Yes.
Makes for a very high contrast ratio.



Essentially, a vector display works like an etch-a-sketch.
Instead of a regular left-right scan, the electron beam traces the image directly on the screen(by moving the beam from data point to data point and adjusting the intensity).

Quote

And the reason some vector games look so good is because of the after effect that the phosphors create. I'd like to see this in action other than that TNT Amusements clip. It's a neat effect and something that other monitors can't pull off.

That's part of it.

Other things are an essentially infinite image resolution.
There's no such thing as aliasing on a vector display, because there's no pixels to cause it. A straight line is always a straight line, with no stair-stepping effect. Anti-aliasing hels a bit, as does emulating at a higher resolution.

And the contrast ratio.
Since the beam never touches most parts of the screen, there's no problem with black areas being stimulated and glowing slightly.
And the parts that ARE hit tend to be much brighter than you see on a raster screen. Emulated vector games tend to look somewhat dull and washed-out. Again, this can be partially balanced out by tweaking the brightness and contrast controls on the screen, as well as the gamma control on the emulator.