33 replies to this topic

[Room 34]

DracIsBack said:

What Jack was able to salvage for twelve years in the market conditions he had was pretty impressive - from a business sense.

Yes, but there's always the question of whether what he kept alive was WORTH salvaging.

If the goal is simply to keep an operation afloat, then yes, he was successful. But if you're actually trying to come up with a REASON for keeping that operation going, it becomes a bit more difficult. Atari's output in the late '80s was by and large shoddy and mediocre, or at the very best was significantly lagging behind the competition.

Better to let something good die in due time than to keep it on life support. (Just ask the Beatles.)

[DracIsBack]

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If the goal is simply to keep an operation afloat, then yes, he was successful. But if you're actually trying to come up with a REASON for keeping that operation going, it becomes a bit more difficult. Atari's output in the late '80s was by and large shoddy and mediocre, or at the very best was significantly lagging behind the competition.

Don't agree there. They did let the ST go a little bit, but think about some of the other things: Lynx, Jaguar, Portfolio etc.

[Garak]

davidcalgary29 said:

The local Commodore group also view the Tramiels as gods.

Damn right. Any Commodore user group feels this way. Matter of fact you can get your ass severly flamed off for insulting Tramiel even in the Commodore newsgroups and other Commodore forums.

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They don't care what happened at Atari, of course, but the club executive never fail to mention that Commodore "went down the toilet" as soon as Jack Tramiel left!

Sorry, the failure of Commodore was NOT Tramiel's fault but a guy named Irving Gould. Mention Gould in any Amiga or Commodore forum and you'll hear real loud how he destroyed Commodore not Tramiel. Gould fired and hired new managers on a monthly basis as well as sinking Commodore with his poor decisions in marketing, strategy, and products.

The complete history of Commodore, Tramiel, and Gould can be found at the "Secret Weapons of Commodore" site. It's a very researched and accurate history compiled by the site owner through information from former Commodore engineers and insiders like Jim Butterfield among others.

Direct link to history: http://www.floodgap....et/history.html

Link to main site: http://www.floodgap....its/ckb/secret/

Garak

[MrRetroGamer]

There is a OOP book that I was recently fortunate enough to obtain and read, called "Home Computer Wars" by Michael Tomczyk, "an insider's account of Commodore and Jack Tramiel". If you are fortunate enough to have read this book, you would know that, whether you like him personally or not, Jack Tramiel was a very shrewd businessman. You may feel that all he did was run Atari into the ground, but given the market environment that was present back at the time, he did the best he could.

There is also another interesting item that I recommend everyone who has a chance to download and view do so. There is a site at http://www.archive.org where you can find, among other things, archives of the PBS show "Computer Chronicles". Their holdings are freely downloadable. Anyway, there is one episode of the show from 1985 called Low End Computers, and in it, Jack Tramiel and his son Leonard talk about what's going on at Atari in 1985.

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[MrRetroGamer]

On a side note slightly OT, there is also another Computer Chronicles show about video games from 1984. They interview Steve Kitchen from Activision, and he goes through his game Space Shuttle on an actual 2600 console on the show! Gotta see that one! I don't have the exact links with me, but you should be able to search them out from the info I gave on that site under the Computer Chronicles area.

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[AtariDude]

I have the computer chronicles episodes on low end computers. This was the first time that I heard Jack Tramiel talk. For a short time, he made Atari profitable but it was not to last.

[Room 34]

Not to get off topic (not that I EVER do THAT! ), but I find it rather odd that the overlays for Space Shuttle were designed for the 6-switch console.

[Atariman]

MrRetroGamer said:

There is a OOP book that I was recently fortunate enough to obtain and read, called "Home Computer Wars" by Michael Tomczyk, "an insider's account of Commodore and Jack Tramiel".  If you are fortunate enough to have read this book, you would know that, whether you like him personally or not, Jack Tramiel was a very shrewd businessman.  You may feel that all he did was run Atari into the ground, but given the market environment that was present back at the time, he did the best he could.

There is also another interesting item that I recommend everyone who has a chance to download and view do so.  There is a site at http://www.archive.org where you can find, among other things, archives of the PBS show "Computer Chronicles".  Their holdings are freely downloadable.  Anyway, there is one episode of the show from 1985 called Low End Computers, and in it, Jack Tramiel and his son Leonard talk about what's going on at Atari in 1985.

I know this is a bit off topic, but that link is awesome! As never being able to watch any of these shows (I didn't even know they existed, and the one I'm watching now came out the same year I was born...) it's great to be able to watch them. Thanks MrRetroGamer!

[Atariman]

HA. I was just watching the episode with the Activision programmer and Space Shuttle -- it was made about two months before I was born. Man, I love this stuff.

But as for Tramiel speaking, I'm not really sure what my position would be on it, anyway. I mean, if he were talking about Atari and what he did and why he made the decisions he did, I'd be all ears whether I thought he was a moron or not. I'd just be happy to hear his side of the story.