58 replies to this topic

[desiv]

OK, someone at work found a Vic20 and gave it to me.. Yeay!

Now I just need to figure out what to do with it. :-)

It has a power cable and a TV out box. It's missing the RF switchbox, but I have one of those. However, I'll probably just go composite anyway..

But no carts or drives (tape or disk).

Since the Vic20 was my first computer, it's kual!!

But I'm not sure I want to start hunting out carts for it..

At least if I go disk, I can share the drive with a C64 or C128 if I ever get one of those...

Any recommendations for MUST HAVE accessories for this guy??

desiv

[Nukey Shay]

Depends on what you want to do with it. If you are mainly interested in playing the games, you should do fine with just buying a Datasette (since the majority of games were released on tape). If you are interested in actually making your own stuff, a disk drive would be handy (since tapes are too slow to deal with as you create and edit). And programming aid carts would be a plus (like the SuperExpander or VicMon)...as well as the 8k and 16k Ram cartridges to boost your Vic to the fullest potential, and a multicard to use them all together.

[desiv]

So, if I go with the Datasette (Looks like I can get it pretty easily on EBay for $15ish shipped), I can save and load stuff..

(I remember typing for hours and hours a program into the Vic20, and then my sister unplugged it after I'd finished!!! Memories.. :-)

Has anyone been able to copy to WAV and then back for transferring programs with the Vic20?

I've seen some Vic20 tape images online, but those look like they've been converted from tape to some binary format for emulators. I haven't seen any way to go back to tape with those?

desiv

[video game addict]

Might they work thru Star Commander & a diskdrive?

[desiv]

OK, think I found them...

http://www.funet.fi/...ette/index.html

Lists some programs for converting TAP files to VOC(PCM) or WAV files.

I think they're for C64 files, but are C64 TAP and Vic20 TAP formats the same?? Looks like it should. I'll find out I suppose..

desiv

[Nukey Shay]

Yep...I was just looking there Took me a while because the FTP kept timing out.

The format for all Commodore machines is the same...so it should work fine. Try using the utility TapWav (at that folder). This will convert any .tap image to a .wav, which can then be recorded to a real cassette.

[Ze_ro]

Frankly, the VIC-20 doesn't have a lot going for it... there's really nothing it does that the C-64 doesn't do better (usually much better). If you're interested in a Commodore machine, you'd really get a lot more milage out of a C-64 if you can find one.

The tape drive and disk drives are all completely compatible between the C-64 and VIC-20... although a tape drive is probably enough for the VIC-20. For a lot of the bigger games, you'll need a RAM expansion card (the VIC-20 only has 3K by default... an extra 16K card will help). Cartridge games are a lot easier to play, since you don't need to worry about loading or ram expansion... although the cartridges themselves aren't overly common, they're pretty cheap since the machine isn't very popular.

Converting .tap files into WAV files should work fine, and you can then record them onto a tape as long as you have a sound card and a tape deck. If you can find them, you might also want to try getting some old VIC-20 magazines such as Compute!'s Gazette. They often have type-in programs that were quite the rage back in the days.

--Zero

[Nukey Shay]

Most of those type-ins should also be available at that ftp, I think...there are quite a number of folders.
But I disagree that the Vic should be completely overlooked in light of the C64 (especially since the C64 wouldn't hold the same nostalgia for him).

[desiv]

Thanx!
Speaking of Nostalgia...

I just remembered, I had a Choplifter cart.

We didn't have many carts. Fact is, I can only remember Choplifter right now.. (It has been 20 years. :-)

But I know we owned Choplifter. :-)

I plan on eventually getting a 64, since I used to have on of those too, an SX-64. But the Vic-20 was my first computer.

You always have a soft spot for your first..

:-)

desiv

[desiv]

OK, weird thought...

I have my Vic20, and I ebay-ed a Tape drive (actually 2 of them and some games.. It was a bundle.. I'm an impulse shopper.. :-).. Anyway..

I also found the software to convert TAP files (and T64 and PRG files also apparently) to WAV so I can record them to tape and use them in the Vic20.

Here's my thought, if I used a Tape deck adapter (like the ones you use with CD or MP3 players in the car), could I just PLAY the file from my Windows machine after I press PLAY on the tape deck???
(Assuming I can close the Datasette tape door with the audio cable sticking out. It's a thin cable.. )

I don't know if anyone has tried this.. Either way, I think I'll try it when I get my Datasette... I'll let you know...

I was thinking of the 2600 Cuttle Cart and the audio CD with all the games..

Similar concept.. I think the Vic 20 has some pause/play features that might make it not quite as simple, but ....

desiv

[Sharky]

Thats the most entertaining thing about this machine was Type-in programs has I never had much software.

But isnt expanding a Vic-20 to 16K makes it uncompatible with the unexpanded software so you must switch it back to run them?

[Ze_ro]

[quote name='Nukey Shay'](especially since the C64 wouldn't hold the same nostalgia for him).[/quote]

Fair enough... in fact, the VIC-20 was my first computer too. The only really fond memories I have of it though were playing Tank Vs. UFO for 5 or 6 hours on end, and playing this cheesy Haunted Mansion type-in game from one of the Compute!'s Gazettes.

I've since moved on to a C-128, and it's an excellent system. I still have a VIC-20, but the RF modulator isn't working quite right, and I have no composite cables yet.

[quote name='"desiv"]if I used a Tape deck adapter' date=' could I just PLAY the file from my Windows machine after I press PLAY on the tape deck???[/desiv']

Interesting idea... in theory, I imagine it would work. You might have to cut out the edge of the tape door to make the cord fit (although if I remember correctly, the tape drive was pretty forgiving about the door, so having it ajar enough for the cord might be fine). Let us know if it works!

Frankly, I think it'd be a lot more convenient to record things to tape... since otherwise, your VIC will be stuck next to your PC with a bundle of wires between the two, and you'll have to be careful about stopping/playing sound files at specific times. Might be nice for testing games before bothering to put them on tapes though. If it doesn't work the first time, try fiddling with the volume (If it's too low, the VIC might just consider it line noise and ignore it)

--Zero

[Mayhem]

Two reasons to own a Vic20:

Jelly Monsters
Jeff Minter's games

[Nukey Shay]

You should be able to. I used to have a cassette interface that allowed me to use a standard mono cassette recorder...and the Vic20 was pretty lenient about the volume (can't remember who made it...but if you can find one of those...you could just plug it into the CD player). Keep in mind that CD's only allow you to have 100 audio tracks, and you should unpause the CD before you press play& confirm. Either way, the Datasette is much more forgiving than the Atari410 (those would sometimes fail just if the cassette was once stopped mid-load in the past )
Choplifter was one of my favorite games on the Vic...a really good port. I remember tinkering around in the program studying the routine for the smooth animation used for the bubble

@Sharky
That is correct. The memory map is rearranged when you plug in a Ram cartridge (except for the Super Expander's paltry amount...which IIRC was disabled when you plugged in larger amounts). The Vic's Basic programs are non-relocateable, since it wrote a start address in the tape header and the POKE locations for the screen is lowered a few pages. Why oh why did they have to put screen memory right at the end of the on-board 5k???
Dunno if there was ever a way to deactivate the Ram using a sys### command (?)...though you could buy multicart boards that had toggles.

[Sharky]

Thought so, as I have to remember to switch my Vic20 emulator back to unexpanded or the unexpanded games wont play!

If you wanna see what an unexpanded Vic-20 is capable of download Cosine's Vic20 demos...

BAD SCENE POETRY and DIGIT!

in DIGIT! The music almost sounds like a C64 which scrolling messages effects which use the left and right sideborders.
Another know what type of Sound Chip the Vic20 had? or how many channels cause no games made full-use of its sound capabilitys.

The other demo is even better! all sideborders used and C64 sounding music!

[-^Cro§Bow^-]

Dont' know if your intersted or not...but...

The flea market here has one guy with a lot of Vic-20 carts. He has some dupes but last I checked he had easily like 20 or so...

He was willing to let them go for like 2 bucks each if I took a mess of them back. He might let the whole lot go for even cheaper if I took that off his hands. I have never seen a Vic-20 itself laying around his place or anywhere else for that matter. I do see C-64s pretty often though.

Just let me know...

[Jess Ragan]

MayhemUK said:

Two reasons to own a Vic20:

Jelly Monsters
Jeff Minter's games

Don't forget Bally-Midway's arcade ports! Both Gorf and Omega Race were really well ported to the VIC-20.

JR

[sack-c0s]

Sharky said:

Thought so, as I have to remember to switch my Vic20 emulator back to unexpanded or the unexpanded games wont play!

If you wanna see what an unexpanded Vic-20 is capable of download Cosine's Vic20 demos...

BAD SCENE POETRY and DIGIT!  

in DIGIT! The music almost sounds like a C64 which scrolling messages effects which use the left and right sideborders.    
Another know what type of Sound Chip the Vic20 had? or how many channels cause no games made full-use of its sound capabilitys.

The other demo is even better! all sideborders used and C64 sounding music!

Well I was going to plug those, seeing as TMR never seems to make it beyond the 8-bit forums - but you've saved me a job there

[The MilkMan]

Ze_ro said:

playing Tank Vs. UFO for 5 or 6 hours on end...

Man, no kindding! Same here.

I upgraded to the C-64 when it came out. But this summer I found one for $15, so I snagged it! It's really clean. What a blast reading through the manual typing in those old codes! ahhh memories. (incl. some pics)

Anyone remember "Crazy Ape" the DK rip off game?

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[desiv]

Well, I actually got to try my Vic20 today. I brought in my video cable from my Adam and hooked it to my video capture card at work, and Violla!!

Vic-20!!

Yeay!! Glad it works! 2 reasons...
1: I just like the Vic 20, memories and all that..
2: As I said above, I already ebayed some Vic-20 stuff! :-)

Programmed the:
10 ?"HI";
20 GOTO 10
obligatory program and HI's filled the screen!!!

Interesting thing. The Power Supply is 11 volts, even tho the Vic says it takes 9. It says Commodore on it, and I found a WEB page that listed Vic-20 power supplies, and there was a picture of it. I don't know if it's a very early run or what, but it works.. (It's the older style, non-C64 power plug)

Been a good week. Scored the Vic-20, ordered some carts and tape drives for the it, and the Roller Controller I ebayed for my Adam showed up today. (With Slither, works great!!!) Also, I finally HACKED out my Adam printer and put the cable on an old PC power supply, so I can get rid of that printer!!!!
(Anyone remember the Adam? The power supply was IN THE PRINTER!! Weird... Almost a supremely great design, the Adam..)

Hopefully my Vic stuff shows up before too long, it has Gorf and Omega Race too.

I couldn't make out some of the other cartridges I'm getting from the picture. Too blurry. I could ask, but I want to be surprised. (I was really just bidding on the Tape Drive, the rest is icing.)

Only problem now??

My computer room is running out of space for computers... :-)

desiv

[Ze_ro]

desiv said:

Interesting thing.  The Power Supply is 11 volts, even tho the Vic says it takes 9.

I just checked mine... the Vic says 9V and my power supply says 10V I wouldn't worry about it... the system does the AC-DC conversion internally, so a higher voltage won't hurt it (within reason of course).

Quote

(Anyone remember the Adam?  The power supply was IN THE PRINTER!!  Weird...  Almost a supremely great design, the Adam..)

I think you're the first person I've ever heard speak nicely of the Adam... most people think they're pieces of junk. I haven't used one myself, but my grandpa had one for a LONG time, and got an awful lot of use out of it. A friend of mine claims her dad still uses one for word processing!

Quote

My computer room is running out of space for computers...  :-)

Ha! Tell me about it... I've got about 12 or 15 computers sitting down stairs, and I have no room to hook up more than two or three at a time (I keep the C-128 and Amiga 1200 hooked up, and the Mac LC-II has it's own special monitor, so it's hooked up too). I really wish I had room to set up my 600XL and an Atari ST....

--Zero

[Nukey Shay]

Rack 'em Seriously, you can fit 3 "slim"-style computers at typing height and put all the other components for them above and below (like say, an Atari130XE, a Commodore 128, and an AppleIIc). That's 3 different 8-bit platforms in a 2-ft. wide space. Add 2 3-position switchboxes so you can use the same monitor for all 3.

[Sharky]

Nukey Shay said:

Rack 'em  Seriously, you can fit 3 "slim"-style computers at typing height and put all the other components for them above and below (like say, an Atari130XE, a Commodore 128, and an AppleIIc).  That's 3 different 8-bit platforms in a 2-ft. wide space.  Add 2 3-position switchboxes so you can use the same monitor for all 3.

ill had one of those wooden computer desks with a slide-out keyboard tray, I guess you mean some can have 2 or 3 trays below and under so can set up 3 computers on 1 desk, also the trays would hide the computer your not using.

I had a hell of time just trying to set up at C64 and a Amiga 500 on the same computer desk!

So i have to look around for one of those space-saving desks your talking about.

[Nukey Shay]

Really, I was just referring to wire racking (since he mentioned that space was tight)...but a desk would work as well. Like if it had a center drawer, you could remove the drawer face and put the "thickest" computer in the drawer, install a hideaway below the drawer (ones that swing out and up...those can hold a Commodore 64c fine - dunno about the 128), and put a third computer on top of the desk.

[Keir]

desiv said:

Also, I finally HACKED out my Adam printer and put the cable on an old PC power supply, so I can get rid of that printer!!!!
(Anyone remember the Adam?  The power supply was IN THE PRINTER!!  Weird...  Almost a supremely great design, the Adam..)

Cool hack! I was really excited to get an Adam, but then I saw how much space it took up with the printer and all. Now it lives in a box.

Vic-20 rocks. I have a few carts for trade. PM me if you're interested.