St(r)yker Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hi! I don`t know if you knew that there are starting 2 projects to put SID (C=) to Atari XL/XE: - first one is the prototype version, with can be insert to cartridge encase. Author is Seban/Slight(Poland) ,here you have some prototype photos: http://www.gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sid01.jpg http://www.gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sid02.jpg http://www.gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sid03.jpg http://www.gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sid04.jpg http://www.gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sid05.jpg - second is Candle project (Poland) - board may be montage in Pokeya pleace http://gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sidplayer1.jpg http://gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sidplayer2.jpg http://gdansk-orunia.eu.org/atari/sid/sidplayer3.jpg Questions and information you may ask here: http://atariarea.histeria.pl/forum/viewtop...opic.php?t=1154 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 That's interesting. I'm working on a SID implementation myself. I have 8 SIDs (original 6581) and I'll place them on a self-designed upgrade board. Every SID has its own 6510 CPU and 64 kB RAM for playing samples through the volume only output. ----- mux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Oh, I've got a digicam picture from me and my SID board prototype too. I made a PBI interface for it, for the atari 800 xl I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 How do they work from a programming point of view - do the SID registers just appear in the atari memory map at some point? if you could map them to the same address as they appear on the C64 it's be fantastic because it'd then open up a a mass of prewritten music (not to mention an existing windows music editor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 How do they work from a programming point of view - do the SID registers just appear in the atari memory map at some point? if you could map them to the same address as they appear on the C64 it's be fantastic because it'd then open up a a mass of prewritten music (not to mention an existing windows music editor) $D4xx is already used by Antic. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 oh balls... so that counts out calling a c64 driver once a frame then copying the register values to the new SID space... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigo Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I hope you guys do not clock the SID with 1.79 Mhz.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 if you could map them to the same address as they appear on the C64 it's be fantastic because it'd then open up a a mass of prewritten music (not to mention an existing windows music editor) $D4xx is already used by Antic. Well, there is no problem. It's (like my 2nd ANTIC/GTIA upgrade) an autonomous functioning upgrade. It has full 64kb SRAM (2 * 62256 ic's on the right) and a 512byte EPROM as a memory mapper, that divides the 64 kb into blocks of 128 bytes. I firstly mapped the SID in $0080-$00ff in the zeropage, to make the use of the faster zp-instructions possible, but I can program my EPROM in a way that the 6581 is mapped at $d400. On the upgrade is a 6510 (on the left) that can run its own program. So you just have to upload the music prog onto the board and let it go by giving the 6510 an IRQ, so it will run from the IRQ vector $fffe. I controlled the board (IRQ/RDY) with the unused bits of the PIA port-register $d301. The RAM can be written or read by memory window ($D5xx in the atari itself). When accessing the memory window, the 6510 should be stopped (I think I did it with the RDY input line) or you'll have bus conflicts. I used PIA register $d300 as a page-select register. I've made some test recordings (I still have 'em) with SID sampling, and it sounded perfect (after the long debugging session ). I hope you guys do not clock the SID with 1.79 Mhz.... I did . And it worked fine, is there a problem ? Maybe the SID will play all notes 1.79 times higher, or will the higher frequency destroy the SID? the 6510 can run on 2 mhz. no problem ----- mux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 if the clock frequency is higher than that of a c64 passing the same frequency value to the chip will produce a higher pitched sound. to make use of existing tunes and editor clocking the chip at the same frequency as a PAL C64 would be ideal. but I'm not sure of the practicalities of that on the hardware front but on the plus side 100/200hz update tunes (like the wizball theme) sould be able to run alongside demo parts or ingame as it isn't stealing cpu time to update the music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Yup, all true. My goal is inserting 8 sid boards in my atari upgrade station, and make it a real 24 voice synth / 8 voice 22.5 (and even higher) kHz sampling voices. Then I'll make a Cubase like sequencer and midi input, then it'll be a music monster. Okay, I've got some more pictures of my SID-board here http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/mysynth/sidpics.htm ----- mux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 A monster SID Board for MIDI? To get a stereo SID Sound, you still can use an OPL3 Chip. In addition you still have multiple sound-creating capabilities more to play with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigo Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I hope you guys do not clock the SID with 1.79 Mhz.... I did . And it worked fine' date=' is there a problem ? Maybe the SID will play all notes 1.79 times higher, or will the higher frequency destroy the SID? the 6510 can run on 2 mhz. no problem ----- mux[/quote'] The SID is not specified to run at 1.79Mhz. It gets hot enough when running at 1Mhz, plus (if you intend to do it) you cannot run SID tunes on the machine, since the tunes were written with 1Mhz in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigo Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 A monster SID Board for MIDI? To get a stereo SID Sound, you still can use an OPL3 Chip. In addition you still have multiple sound-creating capabilities more to play with If i would use a FM chip to make a midi synthesizer, i would use the Yamaha YM2151. It is easy to integrate into any 8 bit system, has 8 voices, 4 operators per voice (OPL3 has just 3) and many gimmicks (LFOs, SSG etc...) which, although older than the OPL3, makes it a more powerful synthesizer. But the SID is also really cool, because it´s filters rock ass! But make sure to use 8580s only, since the 6581´s filter varies a lot from chip to chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 whereas the 8580 has almost no filtering whatsoever. I think the 6581 sounds better - but at the end of the day it's down to personal preference. The 8580 takes a different voltage anyhow IIRC, so changing from one to the other could require a bit of redesigning of hardware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigo Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 whereas the 8580 has almost no filtering whatsoever. I think the 6581 sounds better - but at the end of the day it's down to personal preference. The 8580 takes a different voltage anyhow IIRC, so changing from one to the other could require a bit of redesigning of hardware The problem is, if you plan to build a polyphonic synthesizer out of multiple sids, it would be bad if every chip would have a different filter cutoff frequency. I personally also do like the 6581 better, but only because my favourite tunes were composed having the 6581 in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Well, pics are nice - but: are there any schematics, plans or handmade drawings for the SID upgrade(s) available yet ?!? Would like to use them for an article series in ABBUC magazine - sound upgrades for Atari XL/XE: 1) second Pokey for stereo-sound, 2) Covox-upgrade for 8bit digisample record/playback, 3) Midi-interface(s) and 4) SID upgrade(s). The first 3 articles are already written and they also mention available software for these upgrades and/or enhancements... Maybe someone can help me with the SID upgrade (especially with schematics, since this upgrade is relatively new and no schematics have been available yet)... greetings, Andreas Magenheimer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 If you want schematics, I can send you mines for the SID upgrade board. But you must consider that the scheme is for a prototype board, and a few changes were made before it worked properly. So you can have my schemes, but you can also wait till my final version is ready. I'll also post a link to an mp3 soon, on which you hear some sound testing of the SID board. ----- mux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Okay, I've found the final schematics of the SID-extension-board prototype. Cyan: front design Orange: back design Purple (mixed): overlay (both on front/back) 1 = 6510 CPU (from a commodore 64) for playing high samplerated samples. 2 = 2764 EPROM (8 kbyte). Only used: 512 bytes for memory mapping purpose. It contains a table that maps the 3 other chips (2 * SRAM + 1 * SID) into 64kbyte of address space. The memory is divided into 128byte blocks. 3 = 6581 R3 SID 4 = 62256 SRAM (32 kbyte) 5 = 74245 Octal bidirectional bus-transceiver (16 bits address, 8 bits data Read + Write enabled) 6 = 74243 Quad bidirectional bus-transceiver (only 1 bit used for the R/W line). If people want some more info, just let me know. ----- mux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Thanxx Mux ! I am pretty sure I will use these schematics for my ABBUC article. Now I hope to see the schematics for that polish SID-XL project (via the cart. port). Besides, have you guys any software (msx-demos, etc.) written yet ?!? I would like to mention any available software or even place any available software on the magazine where the article appears... anyway, greetings and thanks - Andreas Magenheimer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Thanxx Mux ! I am pretty sure I will use these schematics for my ABBUC article. Now I hope to see the schematics for that polish SID-XL project (via the cart. port). Besides, have you guys any software (msx-demos, etc.) written yet ?!? I would like to mention any available software or even place any available software on the magazine where the article appears... anyway, greetings and thanks - Andreas Magenheimer. I don't have special msx software or demos. I tested the SID board with some prompt programming: -uploading a sample into the board's RAM -poking some alternating frequency values for the play-back sample-rate into a register. NOTE: it's all part of a bigger plan. In future I'm planning to feed IRQ signals to the 6510 from a 6526. The IRQ output frequency of a 6526 can be adjusted with high precision. I though have a demo recording in mp3-format, of some test recordings. I'll have to upload it some time, I just have a 56k8 modem, so it can take a while. ----- mux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 i find it rather stupid to use SID chips for sample replay. there's other soundchips which can do that way better and don't even need a cpu for that. SID just isn't about samples, i always disliked sid samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 catching up an old thread: maybe if the main atari frequency is divided by 2 then the SID won't get hot, it even gets cooler than in the C64 where it runs on 1mhz. In the atari it will run in 0.88mhz. How shall I make a frequency divisor....anyone suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Are you going to try and use the Sid chip version that was going to be used in the unreleased C65, the so called 'Stereo SID' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Are you going to try and use the Sid chip version that was going to be used in the unreleased C65, the so called 'Stereo SID' 890803[/snapback] no, just the standard SID: 6581. I want to use 8 mono SID's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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