49 replies to this topic

[ussexplorer]

Nothing wrong with buttons or rusty.

I played several hours of space invaders on a cocktail style version. In fact I wonder if the place still has it in the back. Unforchanetly it had a video problem and was not the monitor.

Oh well,

Laters.....

[moycon]

I'm confused, why do you say it's the button control NE146?
That cabinet has a joystick on it. Or does the joystick only work on Qix?

I'm thinking 50 cents is too much to pay. What inflation is the article refering to? Most new arcade games these days cost $4,000 + Some of the higher end $14,000+ games charge users a dollar per play and that I can understand. But this game is $2,000. Even the $4,000+ games usually cost .50 This is more than half that new but they are still changing the 50 cents??? I guess it's a selling point for the vender "Hey this is more than half the price compared to what I usually pay I'll have this paid off in no time."

[Room 34]

Adrian M said:

joeybastard said:

It's just wrong that it costs 50 cents to play it.  I'll pay it because I'm a moron but it's still too much.

Unfortunately, this is necessary largely due to inflation, as the article states. There's really no way around it.

Inflation has been minimal in the United States for the past 15 years. I can see increasing the price a little. (Actually, doing it in the mid-'80s would've made the most sense, although of course it's true that arcade machines have been 50 cents, or more, per play for many years now.)

Unfortunately without building coin mechanisms into the machines that are smart enough to recognize different denominations, the only choice when increasing the game price from a quarter is to jump to 50 cents.

I have seen token-based arcades where they now give you 3 tokens for a dollar, and the games are 1 token each. That makes the most sense to me. 33 1/3 cents per play is reasonable (plus it gets that whole vinyl LP retro vibe going... perfect for a game of Space Invaders).

[bergbros2]

Sorry, but as I understand the historical impact of Space Invaders, releasing the ARCADE cabinet again after all of this time when the arcades are dying for years, seems not too bright. Everyone has moved on a LOOOONG time now and you can get Space Invaders anywhere as much as you can get Tetris, anyway. You don't need to spend $3000 (!!!!) for a bulky cabinet to play the button or joystick version when you got MAME and a computer. The arcades have no interest when they can charge more for better and more interactive games like linked driving games, dance games, skiing games with real skiing controls (etc.). It really is for people with too much money and time and not enough brains.

[Ze_ro]

Room 34 said:

Unfortunately without building coin mechanisms into the machines that are smart enough to recognize different denominations, the only choice when increasing the game price from a quarter is to jump to 50 cents.

Actually, most modern arcade machines (ie, anything newer than 1990 at least) are surprisingly flexible with their coinage... you can tell them to do weird things like charge 5 quarters for 4 credits, or 2 quarters for 3 credits and other such weirdness. Load up a game like Mortal Kombat in MAME, and hit F2 to go into the service menu to see for yourself.

Using these weird coinage settings, you can sort of get games to fractions of a quarter... although you have to buy more than one credit at a time in the process.

Charging $0.35 a game would be bizarre... but at least I'd have a way of getting rid of all the loose change I have lying around.

--Zero

[NE146]

bergbros2 said:

You don't need to spend $3000 (!!!!) for a bulky cabinet to play the button or joystick version when you got MAME and a computer.

I dunno how this thing is going to end up looking really (I have my doubts). But Mame and a computer don't even come close to playiing Space Invaders on a real Taito coin-op. Not unless you somehow rig up a cardboard background, light it up, and then project the game holographhically with a mirror over it. It's the details that count

[Zaxxon]

bergbros2 said:

Everyone has moved on a LOOOONG time now and / The arcades have no interest

I hope so! Then they'll have to slash the price way down just to unload these things. This would make a cool MAME cabinet. I wonder if they're releasing this in Japan as well and if it's made to look like the JPN version.

[Adrian M]

Room 34 said:

Adrian M said:

joeybastard said:

It's just wrong that it costs 50 cents to play it.  I'll pay it because I'm a moron but it's still too much.

Unfortunately, this is necessary largely due to inflation, as the article states. There's really no way around it.

Inflation has been minimal in the United States for the past 15 years. I can see increasing the price a little. (Actually, doing it in the mid-'80s would've made the most sense, although of course it's true that arcade machines have been 50 cents, or more, per play for many years now.)

I never expected to see such an outpouring of dissatisfaction in regards to paying 50 cents to play this! It's 50 cents...not $1.00...not a huge bank breaker in my book. Surely we can overlook this minor inconvenience. I mean afterall, we're getting CLASSIC Space Invaders in arcades again! WHat's not to like?

The inflation that the article may have referred to deals with OTHER aspects related to owning and maintaining an arcade cabinet today. Things like increased costs of electricity, employee wages, and even replacement parts like the microswitches for the buttons, etc.

As I stated earlier, it's entirely possible that the operators will adjust the price per play to suit their own needs. I own about a dozen arcade PCB's and ALL allow you to set coinage to meet your needs.

Let's appreciate what Taito and Namco are doing for us.

[Zaxxon]

I think whether it's set at .25 or .50 is really a non-issue. I don't think Taito/Namco are thinking there are 10,000 arcade operators out there hankering for this. I think this aimed more at restaurant/bar owners who may have 1-3 machines, a pinball and a jukebox. The bar/restaurant owners put these in their businesses not just for the pure sake of making money but to keep patrons happy, entertained and coming back. Sure, they may not make any money off a brand new SI machine but that's not really the point. If it were aimed at arcade operators who have to maximize the income from every square foot of space since their only source of income is arcade games, it wouldn't be a great investment for them. The fact that these games are really old and can be played on every home system/pc for free may not matter much either. I still see old Centipede, Galaga and Ms. Pac Man machines all the time, everywhere. People are still willing to pay to play them even though they're 20+ years old.

[NovaXpress]

Taito and Namco are doing us a favor? No, they are out to make a buck. Just like every other company going after that classic video game dollar. So we analyze the product and come to our consumer decision.

So here we have a Qix/SI combo, which would not be nearly as nice to own as separate cabinets. We get a new cabinet design and controls as well so there's a loss of nostalgia value. Nothing impressive about this product at all.

[Adrian M]

NovaXpress said:

Taito and Namco are doing us a favor? No, they are out to make a buck.  Just like every other company going after that classic video game dollar.  So we analyze the product and come to our consumer decision.  

So here we have a Qix/SI combo, which would not be nearly as nice to own as separate cabinets.  We get a new cabinet design and controls as well so there's a loss of nostalgia value.  Nothing impressive about this product at all.

Of course they're out to make a buck. They're a business, that's what businesses do. Keep in mind that this is the 25th anniversary for Space Invaders. Taito should be commended for having the guts to bring out an anniversary edition of Space Invaders instead of releasing some "enhanced version" and thus pandering to the mindless mainstream gamers who have only been gaming since the Playstation 1 was released.

THis cabinet isn't intended to "impress" anyone. This merely gives people a chance to experience SI (and Qix) in an arcade setting, which is not as common as you may think for a large majority of gamers. A new cabinet design is a given....but then again, the Pac-Man/Galaga anniversary edition had a different cab design and few complained about that. And what's this about "new controls"? All US Space Invaders cabs, save for some imports, have had all-button control.

Perhaps MAME has made gamers jaded...

[goatdan]

Ze_ro said:

Actually, most modern arcade machines (ie, anything newer than 1990 at least) are surprisingly flexible with their coinage... you can tell them to do weird things like charge 5 quarters for 4 credits, or 2 quarters for 3 credits and other such weirdness. Load up a game like Mortal Kombat in MAME, and hit F2 to go into the service menu to see for yourself.

Using these weird coinage settings, you can sort of get games to fractions of a quarter... although you have to buy more than one credit at a time in the process.

Charging $0.35 a game would be bizarre... but at least I'd have a way of getting rid of all the loose change I have lying around.

You are absolutely right. Since the 90's operators could charge pretty much anything they thought of...

But even back in the 80's, machines were rigged to do some strange things. My Cybernaut pinball is currently rigged to give two games for a quarter because it doesn't have a free game setting. That was a 85 pinball. My original Ms. Pac-Man can be set to accept two quarters too...

To add to what you said, the coin mechs themselves are extremely flexible. You can make a coin mech accept pretty much any sized coin with a screwdriver and about three minutes of time. Pop the coin mech out, move a piece, drop a coin through to test, if it works replace the coin mech and game on! My Ms. Pac-Man upright was set to take pieces that were just larger than a nickel and one of the first things I did was change that to a quarter... and set that game on free play.

If Space Invaders comes with the factory settings of 50 cents a play, the operator will be able to change it to just about anything under the sun in about five minutes. It won't be a problem.

[ubersaurus]

NovaXpress said:

Taito and Namco are doing us a favor? No, they are out to make a buck.  Just like every other company going after that classic video game dollar.  

Well no shit. You'd think they WANTED to go out of business. Face it, every single game company that has ever existed has done so because they think they can make money.

[Mock]

First off...why the hell does it cost almost $3000 anyway, you can make one in your garage for less than $1000 and have a better machine...$3000 is too much...They should be making these for less than $600 and selling them for $1200 in bulk and charging $.25 to play...anything more is stupid. period.

Mock

[RCmodeler]

Room 34 said:

Quote

Unfortunately, this is necessary largely due to inflation, as the article states.  There's really no way around it.

Inflation has been minimal in the United States for the past 15 years.

The dollar is about 1/3rd as strong as it was in 1979. I have an old JCPenney catalog where wingtip Florsheims cost $29. The same brand today costs $100. Inflation may have been "minimal" but over 25 years it adds up. So I'm not surprised they charge 50 cents.

However, I have my doubts they'll get it. The Ms.Pac-Man machine in my local arcade charges 25 cents, because no one's willing to pay more.

As for the $2000 cost, that sounds way too steep. I could probably put Space Invaders on a ROM or FPGA for $10-20. Add a cabinet and joystick, and it's probably ~$100 max. Obviously Taito is over-charging (like those classic arcade collections on CD).

[ussexplorer]

I remeber the day I walked into a arcade and dropped in a dollar. Out came three quarters. I thought the machine was busted. Normally you would walk into the same place and get 4 quarters. Then I read the note on the machine. 3 quarters for one dollar. So from then on I didn't play the games or I already had quarters with me. But, if I brought the quarters I would play them all anyway. So I guess the person who losses out is me. I get one less game play for using their coin machine. Then again I also went less into that arcade after that. Now they are not even in business the last time I went down and checked. This is also the same place that went from one store portion in the mall to two store portions then back to one later on and now gone.

Laters.......

[cvga]

I guess you have to consider the change machine to be a game then also. Luckily it only cost one quarter to play

[NovaXpress]

When I was a kid, the local K-Mart in Toledo used tokens which were the exact same size as a nickel. Twenty plays for a dollar. My friends and I plundered their rather nice arcade for a few months before the tokens were changed.

When I said that companies are in it for profit, that was a response to the idea that we should be grateful for the very existence of a SI machine. I don't understand that attitude. Taito is releasing a consumer product which should be judged as critically as we would judge a new console. It seems like the techies here agree that there is no reason an actual SI recreation should cost $2700. I also think Qix was a bad choice for arcades, as it was never a hit. Something like Jungle Hunt or Zookeeper may have been a better idea, although Qix is a superior game.

[tyranthraxus]

SI like pong, while it is a classic groundbreaker its pretty dated. I'd play
it but then again I have every Atari console made. Personally I would
pick Galaga over it anyday. The G/MsPac combo was a natural pick.
Those games hold up well. Qix is great but it doesn't have much name
value these days. I guess we'll see soon enough how well it does.

I remember around 1990. The local arcade chain switched to tokens
and charge $1 for 3 tokens. It caused a huge controversy amongst us
teenagers. Business dropped and eventually they went back to 4 for a
dollar. However they started slipping in 50 cent & $1 games.

In Canada the $1 games are little easier to accept since we've had a
one dollar coin for 15 years now.

[NE146]

ok I got the scoop on this..

1) It doesn't have a background

2) It is not a mirrored display

In other words... it's poop.

[mechanized]

Part of the high cost of the machine is also that it is a coin-operated cabinet. You're paying that high price because you're paying not just for the machine, but the ability/rights to make money off of their video game.

And yes, fifty cents is a ridiculous amount to charge for any pinball or classic video game. That might just be a matter of opinion, but it's a popular opinion and it's popular enough to affect the usage of such machines.

Me? I'll walk right past every last Pacman, Galaga, Space Invaders or what have you if that machine is set for fifty cents. There's a really good reason my visits to today's arcades involve me walking a lap around the arcade and leaving 90% of the time. Screw inflation; the product is all-too-often not worth the price asked.

[Gamemaster_ca_2003]

NovaXpress said:

When I said that companies are in it for profit, that was a response to the idea that we should be grateful for the very existence of a SI machine.  I don't understand that attitude.  Taito is releasing a consumer product which should be judged as critically as we would judge a new console.  It seems like the techies here agree that there is no reason an actual SI recreation should cost $2700.  I also think Qix was a bad choice for arcades, as it was never a hit.  Something like Jungle Hunt or Zookeeper may have been a better idea, although Qix is a superior game.

Agree though i like to play qix it is a very difficult game and was never very popular mabye taito should have made SI a hidden game in mabye a Bubble Bobble/Arkanoid combo or somthing like that.

[tyranthraxus]

It might be heresy but I think an 'enhanced' SI might have been a better
idea for the 25th. Have classic SI and a new one in one cab to select.
Since they aren't using the mirror trick which is really the coolest thing
about the old game I think a new version might have been okay. Its
difficult to say until I see it in person though. 50 cents a play isn't so bad.
Yeah deep down I think an arcade game should be a quarter but its
almost 2004 now. 50 cents doesn't buy really much. I don't want to be
like my grandpa who complains about how much more expensive
a can of coke costs compared to 1940.

[goatdan]

mechanized said:

And yes, fifty cents is a ridiculous amount to charge for any pinball or classic video game.  That might just be a matter of opinion, but it's a popular opinion and it's popular enough to affect the usage of such machines.

Pinball has been fifty cents since around 1985, and it's popularity didn't die off until just recently . Besides that, it takes a hell of a lot more money to purchase and maintain a pinball than it does to maintain a classic game. Pinball has tons of moving parts and unique items. Video games have a common monitor, relatively common controls and a board to run the game. My pinball machine from 1985 has four times the boards that my Ms. Pac-Man has to control it, besides all the moving parts.

Granted, I don't think that you need to pay more than a quarter for a classic, un-updated game regardless of if it was a Space Invaders that was reproduced or an original from 25 years ago. I also probably wouldn't pay more than a quarter to play a pinball from 25 years ago, but just like most people are willing to pay more than a quarter for a game that came out this year, I'll happily pay my 50 cents to play Lord of the Rings. Heck, considering that most new video games cost 75 cents or a dollar, I'd consider the fact that pinball has remained at 50 cents a game to be one of the best deals in the arcade.

[bargora]

From the inflation calculator at http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

"What cost $0.25 in 1980 would cost $0.59 in 2002" (2002 was the most recent year you could choose.)

Whether you'd have paid $0.25 to play a 20-year-old game in 1980 is another question, I guess.