The best pinball is?...

[elviticus]

So, is it Video Pinball, Midnight Magic, or Bumper Bash?

 

I don't own Bumper Bash, but on the emulator it's pretty good... So is Midnight Magic, BUT .... neither let you nudge WHY oh why??

 

If not for this, I might feel differently. But, as it is - Vid. Pinball (game 3) gets my vote!

 

Also, if any homebrewers are listening, I would LOVE a really good Pinball or Golf game.

[uosipa llamxew]

It is interesting that this thread would appear on a night when I just spent about 3 hours playing the greatest pinball game to ever appear on any system! :-)

 

Midnight Magic ROCKS my world, baby. Yesterday I finally received my boxed copy that I bought off of eBay. I love it - so addictive.

 

Video Pinball has never done it for me. I don't even own a copy anymore... I gave it away.

 

Bumper Bash is just interesting enough that I may persue it - I've only played it on an emulator - first time after reading this post. As of now, I still stand my ground with Midnight Magic. It's so great when you bash out all of the top cards and the machine goes into psychadelic mode. :-)

 

I was thinking that it would be cool to hack Midnight Magic so that it is in psychadelic mode permanently... it may cause some to go into epileptic fits, or others to have flashbacks of vietnam.

 

*ahem* I digress

 

Midnight Magic - all the way, baby! Oh, and by the way... the fork wasn't included... :-(

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...0148&highlight=

[AtariKing]

Video Pinball was cool!

[Fretwobbler]

Midnight Magic - no contest IMO.

[+Random Terrain]

Although I was happy Video Pinball existed back then and I played it a lot, it always sucked that it looked like a 5 year old's drawing of a pinball game. It was too wide and blocky and ugly and it never felt enough like real pinball. It was just breakout with a few pinball-like items thrown around the screen.

 

Midnight Magic is much better and the best pinball game made for the Atari 2600, but it came out so late that it didn't really matter anymore. I bought it and played it, but I was moving on to the NES and playing Commodore 64 games, so compared to those, even as good as Midnight Magic was, it just wasn't that big of a deal. If they would have released a similar game back around 1983, I would have crapped my pants and french kissed the cartridge.

 

I never heard of Bumper Bash until I visited AtariAge. So Midnight Magic is the best, especially if you look at all Atari 2600 games as if they all came out the same day. But, if you lived through the Atari years as a teen, it just came out much too late to make your jaw drop.

[Ushabin]

I have both Video Pinball and Midnight Magic. Midnight Magic is the better of the two. The game play is better as well as the graphics. I still like Video Pinball for the fact you can nudge, but I have a tendency to over do it and Tilt quite a bit.

 

I'll have to fire up the emulator and check out Bumper Bash. I've never played it.

 

Marty

[joeybastard]

Midnight Magic is best but I still like the other two as well. I like pretty much any pinball

[NE146]

For those of you who only try Bumper Bash via emulation, it's hard to judge it that way unless of course you have two 2600 paddle controllers hooked up to your pc

 

That being said, I wonder if it would be possible to hack these games to use the cool control style of Bumper Bash.. i.e to use the 2 paddle buttons to control the flippers (which obviously I prefer over using a JOYSTICK to controll pinball) . I'd imagine it would be

[Adrian M]

If you want my opinion in order of preference, here you go:

 

1. Midnight Magic (hands down the most addictive pinball simulation for the 2600...great visuals, good physics engine, decent bumper feedback, great sound effects!)

 

2. Video Pinball (oldie but goodie. It may not have the appealing graphics of Midnight Magic, but stick with it and you'll find tons of fun gameplay. Once you learn the trick of "nudging" the table properly with the joystick, everything just falls into place and you end up with an immensely enjoyable gaming experience!).

 

3. Bumper Bash (I personally don't own this cart, and I've only played it briefly via emulation, so I can't give this game a fair rating. To me, it seems like almost an exact hybrid of Video Pinball and Midnight Magic--contains elements of both, but really doesn't excel in any areas).

[elviticus]

I'd like to own Bumper Bash and try it for real - but it's a rarity 9 ... so... it may be a while , but I'll look.

 

I would love to see Midnight Magic hacked (or probably this would require re-programming?) so that you could nudge. IF you could do this, I think it would make a good game really great. I do agree that the squareness of Video Pin is ridiculous - but (as in real pinball) at least you have a chance to save a ball thats heading for the drain !

[+Random Terrain]

but (as in real pinball) at least  you have a chance to save a ball thats heading for  the drain !

 

The nudging in Video Pinball is so easy that I could keep bouncing the ball in and out of those little rollover boxes forever.

 

Video Pinball was the first time I ever heard of nudging. I never saw anyone do it to a real pinball game and over the years, I never nudged a real pinball machine myself. Seems like it's bad for the machine and not worth hurting myself or breaking the machines since I would probably knock the whole thing over, so I just played it straight. I get to play real pinball about once every 2 to 5 years, but now that I have a little money, I might be able to play more often.

[NE146]

Video Pinball was the first time I ever heard of nudging. I never saw anyone do it to a real pinball game and over the years, I never nudged a real pinball machine myself. Seems like it's bad for the machine and not worth hurting myself or breaking the machines since I would probably knock the whole thing over, so I just played it straight.

 

 

Dude.. ever see Pinball masters play? The game is ALL about nudging. The machines are built to take that (and of course TILT if you take it to the point of abuse) That whole physical aspect of just the best way to shake that table to affect ball movement and of course your accuracy and touch with the flippers determines how good a player are you. You can always tell the Pinball noobs because they just sit there, hit the flippers the same and let the ball fall where it may

 

Skills for the Advanced Pinball Player

[+Nathan Strum]

Midnight Magic. Far and away the best 2600 pinball game. (But yes... nudging would make it that much better!)

 

Actually, it's one of my favorite 2600 games, period. (I'd love to see this on a GBA compilation.)

[sku_u]

My personal favorite is Bumper Bash. Using a pair of paddles as flippers gives this one the nod over Midnight Magic, IMO.

 

Midnight Magic is a great game in its own regard, but the game control is awkward. Had this one been programmed to use a set of paddles as flippers, I'd likely put this one at the top of the list.

 

Video Pinball is neat as a novelty, but isn't very entertaining. The shape of the playfeld, awkward ricochets and it being only one step above Pong puts this one a distant third in my book (although far from a stinker).

[uosipa llamxew]

I bought it and played it, but I was moving on to the NES and playing Commodore 64 games, so compared to those, even as good as Midnight Magic was, it just wasn't that big of a deal.

 

I think that Midnight Magic woops Nintendo Pinball's ARSE. Although, I'm not sure what other pinball games were released for the NES.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to hack these games to use the cool control style of Bumper Bash.. i.e to use the 2 paddle buttons to control the flippers (which obviously I prefer over using a JOYSTICK to controll pinball)

 

Which brings up an interesting question... why does the box art show the game being played with 2 paddles? Maybe the code was changed at the last second to support a more standard controller? Maybe a good hacker could uncover the original commented out code (if it exists), or as NE146 & sku_u mentioned... hack the ROM to use the paddles. I've noticed that when the paddles are plugged in, they do in fact control the flippers, but I've found no way to pull the plunger and shoot the ball.

 

?!?

 

I'm thinking about trying it through the footpedal controller - using a pedal to pull the plunger. I'll post the result later.

 

 

kbye

[Big Player]

Which brings up an interesting question...  why does the box art show the game being played with 2 paddles?  Maybe the code was changed at the last second to support a more standard controller

 

If I remember correctly, Midnight Magic was first made for the Apple II computer and it used two paddles for the controls. I don't know why they got lazy and just reused the box art from that game, since it doesn't fit. Well, it was near the end for Atari back then and they weren't putting a whole lot of effort into the 2600.

[+Random Terrain]

Which brings up an interesting question...  why does the box art show the game being played with 2 paddles?  Maybe the code was changed at the last second to support a more standard controller

 

If I remember correctly, Midnight Magic was first made for the Apple II computer and it used two paddles for the controls. I don't know why they got lazy and just reused the box art from that game, since it doesn't fit. Well, it was near the end for Atari back then and they weren't putting a whole lot of effort into the 2600.

 

Yeah, I even played "David's Midnight Magic" on the Commodore 64 before "Midnight Magic" came out for the 2600. If I remember right, that version just used the keyboard. Related links:

 

http://pirates.emucamp.com/a/d/dmm/c64/main.html

 

http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//w...ePublisher%3D51

[uosipa llamxew]

As promised, I just tried Midnight Magic with the paddles hooked through the footpedal. Verdict: This changes the gameplay drastically... I increased my score by almost double on my first ball! The paddle buttons already take on the left & right input. All you need to program is DOWN to a pedal, and FIRE to another pedal. I only had to change the footpedal from my current Thrust configuration by one button (yellow pedal controlling the fire button so I could shoot the ball). Yah, it's a bit odd using your feet to use the plunger, but the main gameplay is much better. :-) If anyone has the hardware, I suggest you try it... it rocks!

 

BTW... Do the Apple paddles look as weird as the ones in the painting do? They look disproportional to eachother.

 

 

K

[sku_u]

As promised, I just tried Midnight Magic with the paddles hooked through the footpedal.  Verdict:  This changes the gameplay drastically...  I increased my score by almost double on my first ball!  The paddle buttons already take on the left & right input.  All you need to program is DOWN to a pedal, and FIRE to another pedal.  I only had to change the footpedal from my current Thrust configuration by one button (yellow pedal controlling the fire button so I could shoot the ball).  Yah, it's a bit odd using your feet to use the plunger, but the main gameplay is much better.  :-)  If anyone has the hardware, I suggest you try it... it rocks!    

 

Wow! That's great news. I'll have to give this game a try using this configuration

[+Random Terrain]

 

Dude.. ever see Pinball masters play? The game is ALL about nudging. The machines are built to take that (and of course TILT if you take it to the point of abuse) That whole physical aspect of just the best way to shake that table to affect ball movement and of course your accuracy and touch with the flippers determines how good a player are you. You can always tell the Pinball noobs because they just sit there, hit the flippers the same and let the ball fall where it may

 

Skills for the Advanced Pinball Player

 

Yeah, but it still seems unnatural. To me, nudging is like frying a 2600 game. Sure you can shake the machine until it falls apart, but I'd rather control the ball with the flippers. The flippers give you a ton of control over where the ball goes. I guess if I played for money, I would pick the machine up over my head and shake it for ultra-high scores, but I just like to play for fun and the combination of luck and skill with the flippers is what makes pinball fun. After Video Pinball, I never used the nudge feature again on any computer/Nintendo/Playstation pinball games. To me, it's more fun without it. Let the pros nudge.

 

A professional bike racer might shave his whole body and wear skintight clothing for that extra edge, but I don't want or need to do that to enjoy a nice bike ride.

[uosipa llamxew]

I don't ever bump in pinball games either. I just can't get a grasp on the control of it in a video pinball game... it never seems to help. On a real pinball machine, I always end up TILT'ing the machine. I just avoid bumping altogether and save myself some quarters.

 

A professional bike racer might shave his whole body and wear skintight clothing for that extra edge, but I don't want or need to do that to enjoy a nice bike ride.

 

Um, what's fun about bike riding if you don't shave your body and wear skin tight clothes?!

 

[NE146]

Man it's the most natural thing in the world. How else do you control a ball in an enclosed slanted playfield.. well you physically JIGGLE it!

 

I'd rather control the ball with the flippers. The flippers give you a ton of control over where the ball goes.

 

Yes they do! But see, how do you control the ball while it's falling DOWN? The ball is on the playfield a lot more time than it's on the flippers. Put it this way, lots of times, the ball is falling straight down the playfield and will definitely land between your flippers with no chance of hitting it. Do you just stand there and watch it? Lots of people don't.

 

I guess if I played for money, I would pick the machine up over my head and shake it for ultra-high scores,

 

yeah but see that would fall under abuse and would probably Tilt the game . "Nudging" is just nudging.

 

but I just like to play for fun and the combination of luck and skill with the flippers is what makes pinball fun.

 

Of course and you have to play the way that is fun for you But discounting nudging is sort of like discounting "english" in pool/billiards. Sure you and I might not be able to do it, but to a lot of good players it's half the game. And speaking of skill with the flippers.. Did you read any of the tricks at the url I posted (Skills for the Pinball Wizard ? Those guys have mad skills with the flippers with tricks like the Flip Trap and the Drop Stop (something I still have little success doing)

 

After Video Pinball, I never used the nudge feature again on any computer/Nintendo/Playstation pinball games. To me, it's more fun without it.

 

Yeah, translating something so physical and individualistic as nudging to the videogame screen has never been successful. So it almost becomes useless in the videogame world. To be quite honest, I don't use it either (except of course in video pinball where physics be damned)

[+Random Terrain]

Man it's the most natural thing in the world. How else do you control a ball in an enclosed slanted playfield.. well you physically JIGGLE it!

 

That sounds dirty.

 

 

I'd rather control the ball with the flippers. The flippers give you a ton of control over where the ball goes.

 

Yes they do! But see, how do you control the ball while it's falling DOWN? The ball is on the playfield a lot more time than it's on the flippers. Put it this way, lots of times, the ball is falling straight down the playfield and will definitely land between your flippers with no chance of hitting it. Do you just stand there and watch it? Lots of people don't.

 

Yeah, that's where luck comes in. I like games that combine luck with skill and playing pinball without nudging adds a big luck factor. I also think pinball games that allow you to earn things such as a bumper that rises in between the flippers and Kickbacks at the drains don't need nudging. You can just enjoy the luck and concentrate on your flipper work. I also like pinball games that have more than two flippers so you have even more chances to use your skill. The timed ball saver is also great for the times when the ball goes straight to hell within the first few seconds of play.

 

 

I guess if I played for money, I would pick the machine up over my head and shake it for ultra-high scores,

 

yeah but see that would fall under abuse and would probably Tilt the game . "Nudging" is just nudging.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Must remember not to pick up game and shake it.

 

 

 

Sure you and I might not be able to do it, but to a lot of good players it's half the game. And speaking of skill with the flippers.. Did you read any of the tricks at the url I posted (Skills for the Pinball Wizard ? Those guys have mad skills with the flippers with tricks like the Flip Trap and the Drop Stop (something I still have little success doing)

 

Yep, I visited that page. I actually link to another one of their pages from my Game Design Links page:

 

http://www.lysator.liu.se/pinball/glossary/

 

I don't know if I can actually do that Drop Stop technique. I kind of scoop the ball when it comes down like that and roll it back to the armpit of the flipper, let go of the flipper then let the ball roll to the desired position on the flipper, then smack it up towards the target, ramp, or gaping hole I want to hit. If I need more speed, I'll do the same thing, but flip the ball into it's own return lane, leave the flipper down until the ball reaches the right spot and then <span style='color:red'>pow</span>.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Random Terrain

[elviticus]

One last plea for why nudging should be in a pinball game.

 

Nudging is probably not what pinball makers had in mind. But, it has become part of the game by many great players. IF you nudge, you risk the consequence of losing your ball.

 

Fouling in hockey is DEFINITELY against the rules. Still, it is very much a part of the real game, and I would expect it in a video game version. Like nudging, fouling may be a dirty way to play, and you risk the consequence of your actions.

 

Also, bear in mind that pinball machine makers mostly want your quarters! Naturally they want to discourage you from turning the odds in your favor - to me, this is sort of like a casino banning card counters.

 

One last thing about Midnight Magic, I used to have it on my computer too - couldn't you nudge in this version?

[CincYnoTi]

Man it's the most natural thing in the world. How else do you control a ball in an enclosed slanted playfield.. well you physically JIGGLE it!

 

I guess if I played for money, I would pick the machine up over my head and shake it for ultra-high scores,

 

yeah but see that would fall under abuse and would probably Tilt the game . "Nudging" is just nudging.

 

Did you read any of the tricks at the url I posted (Skills for the Pinball Wizard ? Those guys have mad skills with the flippers with tricks like the Flip Trap and the Drop Stop (something I still have little success doing)

 

Yeah, translating something so physical and individualistic as nudging to the videogame screen has never been successful. So it almost becomes useless in the videogame world. To be quite honest, I don't use it either (except of course in video pinball where physics be damned)

 

that URL is cool. the only "skill" i have not used much is the death save and bounce back. usually you have to hit the machine hard enough to tilt it to make a save. to really emulate a pinball machine, you would need a right, left and forward nudge. i can't think of any use for a backward nudge.

 

well, i guess you also need a "lift" nudge. if you have a really generous (or broken) tilt mechanism, you can pick up the end of the machine and roll a ball back out after it has drained. of course, you have to be quick enough to lift it before it goes into the trap mechanism. trust me, that's not a maneuver you get to try very often in an arcade.