6 replies to this topic

[Drakonic Duke]

I need to know what language I should use to make a game. I'm thinking the best choice for me since I'm new is BASIC. Are there anyones better?

[Nukey Shay]

If you are mainly interested in eventually coding for the 2600...Basic is pretty useless (other than to give you a basic understanding of program logic...most of which would need to be "unlearned" by the time you attempt to cross over into M/L). Basic is a very high-level language...meaning it requires a great deal of interpretation by the language to translate it into instructions that are readable by you, the human, to ones that the computer can understand. That is why Basic and other languages are referred to as interpreters. So many people would just advise to start from the ground floor using M/L instead...and the tutorials are being made for that purpose.

Since there are positives and negatives to both methods, I'd say just start with what you have the most enjoyment doing. If you want the ability to crank out a game within hours or minutes, high-level languages are the only way to do it. But they would be completely inaccessable using the 2600...and all of the translating is going to cost a lotta processor time (that is why Basic is so much slower than other languages).

[Jedd]

I'm currently learning 2600 ASM, and Basic was pretty much the only language I knew before starting. I also know some C, but not enough to be useful. Anyway, my point is that if you want to eventually learn how to program 2600, Basic is a possible route to begin to understand programming, but a more powerful language like C is a better language to help understand how computer programming works. Comparing C to ASM is much easier than comparing Basic and ASM.

I guess you could just jump right in to 2600 assembler without any previous programming knowledge, but it would be extremely difficult to even understand the simplest processes. Definitely learn a higher-level language first, then move on to Asm.

If you are going to learn Basic or you already know it, I can probably help you understand Asm from the perspective of a Basic programmer. Just ask if you need help.

-J

[Happy_Dude]

If you've never programed before I'd suggest Pascal.
It's high level enough for a newbie and it teaches good programming habits.
Stay away from basic because it teaches you bad habits.

And if your goal is to program 2600 games start with the tutorials in this forum.
You'll be cranking out 6502 code before you know it

[EricBall]

Happy_Dude said:

Stay away from basic because it teaches you bad habits.

Bad habits like GOTOs, right? Guess what 6502 ASM uses? Gotos.
Bad habits like global variables, right? Guess what 6502 ASM uses? Global variables.

Versus good structured programming habits like nested subroutines, dynamic memory allocation and recursion, right? Guess what almost never gets used with 6502 ASM....

"Good habits" and "bad habits" are largely a matter of context and convention. ASM programming is about wringing out as much CPU power and efficiency as possible (otherwise you would program it in a higher level language). So anything which uses extra cycles or requires additional bytes is often avoided or recoded.

However, some habits, like descriptive variable names, informative comments and sensible documentation, are always applicable no matter the language.

[Jedd]

Quote

Bad habits like GOTOs, right? Guess what 6502 ASM uses? Gotos.  

That's exactly the kind of analogy I meant. While I was reading the tutorials, I tried to write out everything in Asm in Basic that was familiar to me. Goto's are deadly in Basic, but the only way to branch in Asm.

-J

[flavoredthunder]

Machine Languages for beginners is written for people who know basic. They use examples in basic to outline concepts and then show the equivalents in Assembly.
Here is an on-line version of the book:
http://www.atariarchives.org/mlb/