136 replies to this topic

[LS_Dracon]

Quote

Very nice graphics, a note though is that the pixels are approximately 3:4, three times wide, four times high.

I didn't notice that, this pixel aspect is for ntsc?
Here's the last mockup update:

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[e5frog]

I have both a PAL and an NTSC system, they look the same, so answer is - yes.


The problem with writing a 3853 Static Memory Interface replacement is that it's not very well documented, if you check out the documents (pdf:s) at http://www.veswiki.com there are ROM states that aren't 100% clear what to do.

I'd welcome anyone to try and do it, but I understand that it will be hard to do without a system to test on.

It would be nice to be able to build carts without having to slaughter another.


Other late cartridges have a 3853 and rom but in the form of chips directly mounted to the PCB, one of those could be used as well, but as these are pretty rare as well (usually cart 18 and up) you might not want to do that anyway.

Buying a batch of 3853 is one way to go as well, they exist but are quite expensive, it can be found at many circuit-brokers...

A friend of mine is thinking of using a PIC32, if they're fast enough it might be possible, I haven't heard anything about it for some time now, he might be busy with other things.

Maybe we should summon up some prize money to get people interested.

[supercat]

e5frog, on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:07 PM, said:

A friend of mine is thinking of using a PIC32, if they're fast enough it might be possible, I haven't heard anything about it for some time now, he might be busy with other things.

I'm not familiar with the PIC32, but I wouldn't expect a microcontroller to be a good fit. Micros are excellent for replacing logic which can be effectively "time-shared" and doesn't have super-tight timing requirements. The Fairchild memory controller has far less logic, but it all needs to be available on a microsecond's notice. By the look of it, the F8's address controller should fit easily into a Xilinx XC9572. It might be necessary to do a slight optimization so as to use one ALU instead of two, but even that might not be necessary.

[djmips]

supercat, on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:06 PM, said:

e5frog, on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:07 PM, said:

A friend of mine is thinking of using a PIC32, if they're fast enough it might be possible, I haven't heard anything about it for some time now, he might be busy with other things.

I'm not familiar with the PIC32, but I wouldn't expect a microcontroller to be a good fit. Micros are excellent for replacing logic which can be effectively "time-shared" and doesn't have super-tight timing requirements. The Fairchild memory controller has far less logic, but it all needs to be available on a microsecond's notice. By the look of it, the F8's address controller should fit easily into a Xilinx XC9572. It might be necessary to do a slight optimization so as to use one ALU instead of two, but even that might not be necessary.

"

The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this memory controller is impossible.

Make no attempt to solve it.

[batari]

djmips, on Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:42 AM, said:

supercat, on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:06 PM, said:

e5frog, on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:07 PM, said:

A friend of mine is thinking of using a PIC32, if they're fast enough it might be possible, I haven't heard anything about it for some time now, he might be busy with other things.

I'm not familiar with the PIC32, but I wouldn't expect a microcontroller to be a good fit. Micros are excellent for replacing logic which can be effectively "time-shared" and doesn't have super-tight timing requirements. The Fairchild memory controller has far less logic, but it all needs to be available on a microsecond's notice. By the look of it, the F8's address controller should fit easily into a Xilinx XC9572. It might be necessary to do a slight optimization so as to use one ALU instead of two, but even that might not be necessary.

"

The Enrichment Center regrets to inform you that this memory controller is impossible.

Make no attempt to solve it.

After looking at the F8 datasheet, I'll have to agree, as there are too many possible F8 control signals (it looks like there are 30) for a microcontroller to interpret and respond to within a microsecond. Regular logic is the best way.

Edited by batari, Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:37 AM.

[TROGDOR]

I checked out the Channel F this weekend. It's an interesting beast. In many ways it's the opposite of the Atari. Poor colors and sound, but great at complex full screen images with no flicker. The existing games for this system don't even begin to unlock its potential. Risk and Empire would be great ports for this system. Adventure could probably be ported too, but it would take some work. An incredible asteroids, too.

Imagine how lame the Atari would be if development had stopped after its first 26 games. With better coders, this system could have given Atari a run for their money.

Here's some mock ups I threw together.

Edited by TROGDOR, Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:15 AM.

[supercat]

TROGDOR, on Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:30 AM, said:

Here's some mock ups I threw together.

I wonder how they'd look if you used black and white mode, or else used blue as the background? Not sure you can really tell without real hardware, alas.

Edited by supercat, Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:06 PM.

[TROGDOR]

supercat, on Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:05 PM, said:

TROGDOR, on Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:30 AM, said:

Here's some mock ups I threw together.

I wonder how they'd look if you used black and white mode, or else used blue as the background? Not sure you can really tell without real hardware, alas.

Unfortunately, red on blue, or vice versa, is one of those contrasts that make your eyes bleed. Black and white might be okay for asteroids, given that the original was monochrome vector. It's too bad the system won't let you use black with the three primary colors.

Empire:

Edited by TROGDOR, Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:45 AM.

[superbee]

TROGDOR, on Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:36 AM, said:

supercat, on Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:05 PM, said:

TROGDOR, on Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:30 AM, said:

Here's some mock ups I threw together.

I wonder how they'd look if you used black and white mode, or else used blue as the background? Not sure you can really tell without real hardware, alas.

Unfortunately, red on blue, or vice versa, is one of those contrasts that make your eyes bleed. Black and white might be okay for asteroids, given that the original was monochrome vector. It's too bad the system won't let you use black with the three primary colors.

Empire:

Very Nice. And Adventure? How it could be?

Edited by superbee, Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:57 PM.

[e5frog]

TROGDOR, on Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:36 AM, said:

Unfortunately with black background color the three foreground colors all turn white.

Grey is not available since it's a background color.

It looks very nice, why not start programming for use in MESS to start with?

[TROGDOR]

e5frog, on Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:15 PM, said:

Unfortunately with black background color the three foreground colors all turn white.

Grey is not available since it's a background color.

It looks very nice, why not start programming for use in MESS to start with?

I've read that the system has 8 colors, which I thought were red, green, blue, and gray in color mode, and black, white, and 2 shades of gray in b/w mode, as suggested by the Colortest demo. Does the system only have 6 colors?

As for programming for the Channel F, I'd love to eventually, but I need to finish some Atari projects before I take on another system.

Edited by TROGDOR, Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:00 PM.

[e5frog]

TROGDOR, on Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:54 AM, said:

I've read that the system has 8 colors, which I thought were red, green, blue, and gray in color mode, and black, white, and 2 shades of gray in b/w mode, as suggested by the Colortest demo. Does the system only have 6 colors?

No, there are 8 colors, in color mode - three foreground colors: red, blue, green and backgroundcolors grey, lt.blue or lt.green.
In B&W mode all foreground colors turn white and the background is black.

3+3+1+1 = 8

The palette can be set for each row, any combination is possible.

If you'd like to see screenshots of games, my gallery is available: http://go.to/channelf

Here's an example of where the combination of B&W rows and color make a pretty nice picture:
http://www.veswiki.c...llscreenpicture

It doesn't look that good on a 32" TV though..

Edited by e5frog, Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:43 PM.