136 replies to this topic

[~llama]

So we may just have enough interest to start a small band of renegade Channel F programmers... i'll look into starting a mailing list.

What about 3200? Does anyone know anything? Tempest?

[Tempest]

Quote

What about 3200? Does anyone know anything? Tempest?

Not really. All I know is that it was 10-bit (like the Intellivision) and difficult to program so they scrapped it and went with the 5200. There were supposedly two games programmed for it, a Mouse Trap style game and one other.

Tempest

[~llama]

update: i've applied for channelf at freelists dot org so maybe we can get this thing off the ground

[Bryan]

Someone should ask Sean Riddle what he's using to assemble his project.

-Bry

[~llama]

probably something homebrewed... I know with some luck i could make a quick and dirty simple F8 assembler if I worked at it hard enough... I'm really not that much of a Win32 coder though.

[NovaXpress]

How rough is the programming compared to the 2600? I looked into that system and quickly realized that I wasn't smart enough to handle it.

Zircon is still around, you know. They now make electronic hand tools. They invented the StudSensor.
http://www.zircon.com/

[Tom]

well, apparently there is a video ram you can plot your pixels into, so i suppose getting it something to display shouldn't be that hard.

the real ugly thing is its cpu...

[Bryan]

~llama said:

probably something homebrewed... I know with some luck i could make a quick and dirty simple F8 assembler if I worked at it hard enough... I'm really not that much of a Win32 coder though.

For an assembler, you don't need a fancy interface. Just write it as a DOS/Console app and run it from a command line:

f8asm channelfdoom.asm

-Bry

[Bruce Tomlin]

I was able to hack together an F8 assembler real quick, since I designed my own assembler to have the CPU-specific stuff easily changed out. In fact, it took longer to research the instruction set and make an "all opcodes" source file than it did to write the new assembler code.

I'll package it and put it up for download later. (I had a few bug fixes and needed to put up a new version anyhow.)

[Bruce Tomlin]

Okay, it's up: http://xi6.com/hacks/ Knock yourself out.

But remember, F8 stuff ain't easy. Yes, it's 8 bits, but making a Channel F cartridge is even harder than making an Intellivision cartridge. The Intellvision needs a 16-bit address latch to use a normal EPROM, but the F8 requires a program counter be put on the cartridge.

[Bryan]

Bruce Tomlin said:

The Intellvision needs a 16-bit address latch to use a normal EPROM, but the F8 requires a program counter be put on the cartridge.

So, the next project is a Program Counter PAL for the Channel F!

-Bry

[Cootster]

Wasn't the F8 commonly used in commercial/appliance applications at that time? Tools for working with it may be out there somewhere. . .

Either way, nice idea, switching to a platform that doesn't piss the big boys off . . . Too bad there can be no such thing as a PC-50x homebrew . . .

[Bruce Tomlin]

Bryan said:

Bruce Tomlin said:

The Intellvision needs a 16-bit address latch to use a normal EPROM, but the F8 requires a program counter be put on the cartridge.

So, the next project is a Program Counter PAL for the Channel F! :)

It's going to need more than just a PAL. One of the 32 bus modes that must be supported (google for "f8.c site:mess.org" and look at what the emulator has to do) does a signed addition of the 8 bits on the data bus to the program counter. Maybe if you could evangelize Kevin Horton away from his current NES-plus-bankzilla-on-a-chip project...

[Bryan]

Bruce Tomlin said:

It's going to need more than just a PAL.  One of the 32 bus modes that must be supported (google for "f8.c site:mess.org" and look at what the emulator has to do) does a signed addition of the 8 bits on the data bus to the program counter.  Maybe if you could evangelize Kevin Horton away from his current NES-plus-bankzilla-on-a-chip project...

Oh... I wonder if anyone can get a datasheet on the thing. It would probably fit into a PLCC CPLD of some sort.

-Bry

[~llama]

PAL? I'm lost, i thought PAL was a type of TV standard...

Anyway, for everybody out there, i've just gotten channelf at freelists dot org up and running, so everybody interested in Channel F homebrew, come check it out and we'll figure this thing out together

I'm excited.

[~llama]

I'm having problems compiling your assembler, too... perhaps i should start writing my own just to see what it's all about and wait on a precompiled binary of yours just to get me by until mine works?

or i could just figure out how to make yours compile. MSVC 6 gives errors about missing directives from precompiled headers and source.

[Bruce Tomlin]

You aren't going to get any pre-compiled binaries from me. I run OS X.

Maybe you could install Cygwin and use the gcc from that?

[~llama]

Bruce Tomlin said:

You aren't going to get any pre-compiled binaries from me.  I run OS X.

I do too, some of the time... i have two computers, a win32 box and a G4 iMac. I use them both equally... so an OS X binary would be good too.

I'm working on a table for TASM at the moment too, so this will also be an option.

[~llama]

cursed Edit button... I meant to say this in the last post:

Has anyone tried/signed up for the Channel F Homebrew Mailing List yet besides me? channelfatfreelistsdotorg and we can get things moving on some projects, or just learning how to do things.

[Tom]

i didn't google for too long, but the only f8 assembler i found was one written in algol.

[Tom]

here's a win32 version compiled with mingw. compiled fine, but i didn't actually test the assembler.

Attached Files

•  asmf8.zip   16.11K   84 downloads

[Bryan]

~llama said:

PAL? I'm lost, i thought PAL was a type of TV standard...

In this case, PAL stands for Programmable Array Logic, and it refers to a family of IC's that can be configured to emulate a variety of circuits, reducing the number of chips needed.

-Bry

[Blackbird]

This is absolutely great! I've searched for some Channel F programming info a while back, but I had absolutely no idea there was actually progress made... I'd be interested in it, for sure.

I'd offer to help on an assembler/disassembler, but the only thing I'm good at prototyping in is JavaScript and PHP. I haven't made a real binary in my life. Still a possibility, though...

On creating a TASM file, I found a cross-assembler a while ago which did support the F8 (actually the 3870, but that's just the all-in-one version of the F8, if I recall correctly), and uses processor files. It might be possible to port it over to the TASM. The file is attached, if anyone's interested (it's just a txt file, zipped).

Whenever someone comes out with something workable, be it a demo or documentation, I'll be all on it...

Attached Files

•  3870.zip   548bytes   81 downloads

[djmips]

~llama said:

NovaXpress said:

I'm wondering if it's even harder to work with than the 2600.

You know, with all the Infogrames fuss going on we might be looking at the future of homebrewing. To bring back the Channel F would be the height of insanity and I support that.

Me too, but... looking at the sample source for Lights Out i would say that it's pretty insane (unsane?) to even consider it... plus, think about the toolset (or the lack thereof)

Even more insane of an idea: an Atari 3200 emulator and homebrew development suite... how much do we know about the 3200?

I'm not really considering programming either of these (yet) but... perhaps its possible?

I was curious and I took a look at the specs at Sean's page (http://members.cox.n...chanfspecs.html) and I am confident that the system is not harder to program than the 2600. It should be much easier and the main advantage is the bitmapped graphics; 128 x 64 with 2 bits per pixel. The sound is simple as well. As far as an assembler goes, it should not be too much trouble to track one down or as someone else has mentioned, use TASM. But why not contact Sean and find out what assembler he is using? Perhaps he wrote his own and might be willing to share.

[Tom]

Blackbird said:

On creating a TASM file, I found a cross-assembler a while ago which did support the F8 (actually the 3870, but that's just the all-in-one version of the F8, if I recall correctly), and uses processor files. It might be possible to port it over to the TASM. The file is attached, if anyone's interested (it's just a txt file, zipped).

do you have a link to that assembler ?